Yet another ID this airplane thread.

[Jim Bow]

Navy. Woman in back is painting a Pa Am logo
9EA480E4-9BA2-45A3-8384-F5AC01FA237C.jpg

[Clarkey]

PBM Mariner?

[Rich Jones]

Surplus WWII PBY seaplane?

[hawkeye54]

I'm siding with Rich - I recall a couple of them at NAS North Island, CA , circa 1968 / 1969 .




Rick

[sp_clark]

Isn't that pic flipped?

I think this is more likely -

RIght-reading.jpg
not sure it's a PBY (but what do I know?) could be this....

[AnalogKid]

Id say, no to the PBY, the nose on those wasn't nearly so deep unless there was a version with a nose turret, which this clearly isn't. Also, although it's very hard to make out, the picture seems to show a high mounted wing rather than the Catalina's parasol wing.

How about a Consolidated XP4Y Corregidor?

[Norman Bernstein]

Only one was ever built, according to the wiki... the factory was dedicated to building the far more famous Catalina PBY.

[Jim Bow]

My take is that its a civilian airplane being assigned to the Navy. The woman is painted a black copy of the PAA logo and the words “under contract”.

[CK 17]

Id say, no to the PBY, the nose on those wasn't nearly so deep unless there was a version with a nose turret, which this clearly isn't. Also, although it's very hard to make out, the picture seems to show a high mounted wing rather than the Catalina's parasol wing.

How about a Consolidated XP4Y Corregidor?

The chines are different.

[Jimmy W]

Martin M-130?

[gypsie]

Short Sunderland?

Picture1.jpg

[AnalogKid]

I thought the Martin 130 was a contender until I saw one from a lower angle where it becomes obvious that the fuselage side has a pronounced step:




Another type that Pan Am operated at the time was the Sikorsky S-43 'Mini Clipper', but again, like the PBY, that has a parasol wing and engines very close to the fuselage, not to mention prominent passenger windows, as does the larger Sikorsky S-42.



The Boing 314 was much, much bigger

[Canoeyawl]

I think the 314 is a contender

3FA2447C-C61A-4F87-8745-52F6267F12D8.jpeg

[Nicholas Carey]

Navy. Woman in back is painting a Pa Am logo
9EA480E4-9BA2-45A3-8384-F5AC01FA237C.jpg

My take is that its a civilian airplane being assigned to the Navy. The woman is painted a black copy of the PAA logo and the words "under contract".

I'm with Jim. Pan-Am aircraft impressed into government service after outbreak of hostilities. She's painting out the Pan-Am logo. And he's painting in the Army Air Corps rondel and the US flag.

[Canoeyawl]

The big painted star is interesting...

A 314 was the first presidential flight across the Atlantic
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-s...light-2901615/

[Clarkey]

It seems that it is indeed a PBM Mariner. The image appears in a Smithsonian magazine article with the caption:

"In January 1943, a Martin PBM Mariner receives dual Navy and Pan American Airways markings. Pan Am operated the flying boats on regular transport runs between San Francisco and Pearl Harbor."

Article link: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-s...lor-180977306/

[Dave Wright]

It seems that it is indeed a PBM Mariner. The image appears in a Smithsonian magazine article with the caption:

"In January 1943, a Martin PBM Mariner receives dual Navy and Pan American Airways markings. Pan Am operated the flying boats on regular transport runs between San Francisco and Pearl Harbor."

Article link: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/air-s...lor-180977306/

No picture there. This site gives a photo ID: National Archives and Records Administration 80-G-K-1142

https://laststandonzombieisland.com/...riner-edition/

[Dave Wright]

And from the National Archives Catalog:

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/179036478

[Clarkey]

No picture there. This site gives a photo ID: National Archives and Records Administration 80-G-K-1142

https://laststandonzombieisland.com/...riner-edition/

The pic is there, you just have to click on an arrow to see the 2nd of 2 images.

[Nicholas Scheuer]

Definately not a PBY Catalina. But what's the story with that wing root? It appears to have some sheet metal missing.

[Canoeyawl]

better picture:
The bit of odd wing structure is scaffolding, and the man painting the flag is working with an airbrush on a stencil
D14A2EB4-90C5-4A7E-92E2-F5F057FCC5E3.jpg

edit to add: this is interesting
"To test the PBM's layout, Martin built a ⅜ scale flying model, the Martin 162A Tadpole Clipper with a crew of one and powered by a single 120 hp (89 kW) Chevrolet engine driving two airscrews via v-belts; this was flown in December 1937.^[4][5] The first genuine PBM, the XPBM-1, flew on 18 February 1939."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_PBM_Mariner

I'm having a hard time going airborne with a stove-bolt six and V-belts, just sayin'
And how on earth did they get 120hp from that old babbitt bearing 216 with splash lubrication?
And does that splash lubrication work upside down?
(It must have been a beautiful "hot rod" version of that engine)

https://airandspace.si.edu/collectio...m_A19530086000

2A722B8B-DE18-4E79-BDEB-47D3731202C9.jpg

[Stiletto]

There's some nice wood in that roof too!

[BrianW]

There's some nice wood in that roof too!

I was looking at that too. I sometimes work in a WW2 hangar in Texas and find myself staring at the wood roof...

IMG_2174.jpg

IMG_5396.jpg

[Nicholas Carey]

And from the National Archives Catalog:

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/179036478

Here's the full-size image from NARA:

No airbrush there. Guy painting the flag is using a full-bore finish gun, and what looks like an aluminum stencil. And if you zoom in, he's wearing brown, low quarter, brogued dress shoes. With synthetic rubber soles. She's a stylish gal -- pierced ears and pearl studs.

If you zoom in on the zinc chromate primered bit at the bow, that seems to be a repair in progress. A whole lot of missing rivets, and sistered rivet lines.

[Jim Bow]

Is he wearing a Navy Chief’s hat?

[Canoeyawl]

I'd call that a "Jamb Gun"
(It's not a bristle brush, which is what I "assumed" earlier)
I do like the saw horse...

[Nicholas Carey]

I'd call that a "Jamb Gun"
(It's not a bristle brush, which is what I "assumed" earlier)
I do like the saw horse...

That saw horse design looks like the standard sawhorse that Foss Shipyard uses. A bit over-engineered, maybe.

[Peerie Maa]

If you zoom in on the zinc chromate primered bit at the bow, that seems to be a repair in progress. A whole lot of missing rivets, and sistered rivet lines.

It could be a repair, but not with sistered rivets in the seam. Seams and butts often needed double or triple rows of rivets, whereas frame attachment only needed one.

That saw horse design looks like the standard sawhorse that Foss Shipyard uses. A bit over-engineered, maybe.

Probably built to for trestles for staging, hence that deep strong cross piece halfway up the leg and enough width for two or three staging planks.

[Canoeyawl]

A forbifor on top?