Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: The debate on abortion.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    On the river, Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    7,474

    Default The debate on abortion.

    How it is here.

    The so called "Morning after pill" is to be much more readily available.

    From Radio NZ news on their facebook page.

    "Women will have access to abortion medication over the phone from today, when the government rolls out the new national telemedicine service.
    The phone hotline will provide clinical consultations for early medical abortions in the first 10 weeks of pregnancy, make referrals for pre-abortion tests, and send out medications."

    John Welsford
    An expert is but a beginner with experience.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    44,287

    Default Re: The debate on abortion.

    I wanted to move there when I retired, but wife didn't, and so much family here.
    "Banning books in spite of the 1st amendment, but refusing to regulate guns in spite of "well regulated militia' being in the 2nd amendment makes no sense. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    70,669

    Default Re: The debate on abortion.

    Sounds civilised to me but the authoritarians terrified of their wives and daughters discovering how stupid their men are will find a pseudo-religious reason to complain.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Sorrento Australia
    Posts
    5,449

    Default Re: The debate on abortion.

    As I posted on twitter recently, for the GOP, christianity is a trojan horse used to further an agenda that is in stark contrast to the character and message of the person of Jesus as described in the gospels. Increasingly over the past 20 or so years Conservative parties have used wedge issues to their advantage in capturing the swinging vote. The fact that so many Christian or religious leaders buy into the wedge issue of a abortion reveals an incredible lack of wisdom on their behalf. Either that or it may be the case that this reveals they are more political than they are spiritual in addressing the issue.
    Last edited by Hallam; 10-31-2022 at 09:23 PM.
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci.

    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question.

    "Freighters on the nod on the surface of the bay, One of these days we're going to sail away"
    Bruce Cockburn

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    beer city usa
    Posts
    119,043

    Default Re: The debate on abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallam View Post
    The fact that so many Christian or religious leaders buy into the wedge issue of a abortion reveals an incredible lack of wisdom on their behalf.
    either that, or an incredible amount of sheer hypocrisy on their parts
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    40,245

    Default Re: The debate on abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallam View Post
    The fact that so many Christian or religious leaders buy into the wedge issue of a abortion reveals an incredible lack of wisdom on their behalf.
    It isn't about wisdom. It's about not having clear guidance in scripture and a genuine desire to do the right thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    either that, or an incredible amount of sheer hypocrisy on their parts
    I don't think that most people accurately know how they would respond if it were them or someone they love until it is.

    Of course, the politicians who play the abortion card are a different matter.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    70,669

    Default Re: The debate on abortion.

    #6
    chortle-chortle.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    St. Helens, Oregon
    Posts
    5,183

    Default Re: The debate on abortion.

    Cynic that I am; religion is not about souls, it's about control.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Seattle Washington USA
    Posts
    569

    Default Re: The debate on abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Cynic that I am; religion is not about souls, it's about control.
    Always was; from day one.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    35,605

    Default Re: The debate on abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Loudon View Post
    Always was; from day one.
    The snake in the garden of Eden

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    70,669

    Default Re: The debate on abortion.

    Humans are like that…………….

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Posts
    2,421

    Default Re: The debate on abortion.

    Saw this bumper sticker yesterday, STOP Christian Nationalism

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    83,769

    Default Re: The debate on abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallam View Post
    As I posted on twitter recently, for the GOP, christianity is a trojan horse used to further an agenda that is in stark contrast to the character and message of the person of Jesus as described in the gospels. Increasingly over the past 20 or so years Conservative parties have used wedge issues to their advantage in capturing the swinging vote. The fact that so many Christian or religious leaders buy into the wedge issue of a abortion reveals an incredible lack of wisdom on their behalf. Either that or it may be the case that this reveals they are more political than they are spiritual in addressing the issue.
    Ayup.

    At least some, and an increasing %, of Christianity is. Though not all. The Christian Nationalists. The Evangelical Christians. And certain branches of certain denominations. These people would regard Jesus's second coming as a huge threat, and would hang him from the cross yet again.


    A conservative scholar looks to define — and defeat — 'Christian nationalism'


    https://www.yahoo.com/news/a-conserv...142138640.html

    Conservative writer Paul D. Miller is trying to pick apart these strands and to clarify the issue. Many American Christians are Christian nationalists, he agrees, and that number is growing. He also says that does not mean they necessarily want a theocracy or to eliminate democracy — though some do — and that many critiques of Christian nationalism unfairly lump moderates together with extremists.


    But finally, he argues, so-called moderates in the Christian nationalist community have a duty to publicly reject and condemn the extremists in their ranks.

    [As much as I agree with him, he's definitely swimming against the tide at the moment]
    Last edited by David G; 10-31-2022 at 11:45 PM.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Location
    Travelers Rest SC USA
    Posts
    418

    Default Re: The debate on abortion.

    To me, the argument centers around precisely when a fetus becomes a human being. Sure, women have the right to make decisions about their own body, but at some point, another person's body enters the equation. Defining that point ain't easy. It would help if people simply understood and used birth control. In my youth, I sailed into far more ports than I'd care to admit, but I was always appropriately suited up. I fathered exactly one child, when I was ready for the responsibility.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    70,669

    Default Re: The debate on abortion.

    And tell me, what's so special about a human mammal MC? All of them work in the same way to reproduce.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    62,492

    Default Re: The debate on abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    And tell me, what's so special about a human mammal MC? All of them work in the same way to reproduce.
    This is very silly. Legally, and by most people's ethics, it's perfectly OK to kill and eat other animals at any stage of development. I had part of one for dinner last night, in fact. You may agree or not, but that contributes nothing at all to a discussion of abortion.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    South Puget Sound/summer Eastern carib./winter
    Posts
    22,650

    Default Re: The debate on abortion.

    debate ?
    these is no debate about abortion
    folks fall on one side or the other, i doubt a single mind has ever been changed

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    44,287

    Default Re: The debate on abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by MushCreek View Post
    To me, the argument centers around precisely when a fetus becomes a human being. Sure, women have the right to make decisions about their own body, but at some point, another person's body enters the equation. Defining that point ain't easy. It would help if people simply understood and used birth control. In my youth, I sailed into far more ports than I'd care to admit, but I was always appropriately suited up. I fathered exactly one child, when I was ready for the responsibility.
    The question is one of who decides; YOU, or the woman and her doctor? Not all pregnancies make it to term. Some develop serious problems and continuing the pregnancy puts the mother's life at risk.

    Imagine if all the laws around this and parenting were written by women, rather than men. Things would be very different. I think they'd be better.

    For instance, men have convinced themselves that the child needs to know both parents, and have written laws that, essentially, give the dad equal rights. This gets the unwed father out of child support by the courts giving shared custody, and they convince themselves this is in the best interest of the child.

    I believe the child needs A stable home. Bouncing between two parents who don't get along is not good for the child.

    The religious leaders of the GOP won't stop at abortion. They'll outlaw birth control.
    "Banning books in spite of the 1st amendment, but refusing to regulate guns in spite of "well regulated militia' being in the 2nd amendment makes no sense. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    31,069

    Default Re: The debate on abortion.

    If so-called pro-lifers do not support mandatory early sex education and free universal birth control, then they are not anti-abortion, they are simply anti-sex. I am tired of Christo-fascists trying to impose their will on everybody else.
    Gerard>
    Albuquerque, NM

    Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic, save the country.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    12,372

    Default Re: The debate on abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by john welsford View Post
    How it is here.

    The so called "Morning after pill" is to be much more readily available.

    From Radio NZ news on their facebook page.

    "Women will have access to abortion medication over the phone from today, when the government rolls out the new national telemedicine service.
    The phone hotline will provide clinical consultations for early medical abortions in the first 10 weeks of pregnancy, make referrals for pre-abortion tests, and send out medications."
    We have a more complex situation here, because we are a union of 50 states each of which is able to make their own rules.

    Just as your country has rules against some behaviors - that you accept, each of the states has such rules. The problem is that some people don't accept the ones on abortion.

    I don't like the rules on abortion, but I can accept that others have a different view and they are a majority where it matters.
    Life is complex.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    44,287

    Default Re: The debate on abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    We have a more complex situation here, because we are a union of 50 states each of which is able to make their own rules.

    Just as your country has rules against some behaviors - that you accept, each of the states has such rules. The problem is that some people don't accept the ones on abortion.

    I don't like the rules on abortion, but I can accept that others have a different view and they are a majority where it matters.
    I don't mind people having different views, but I am unaware of anyone who supports abortion wanting laws forcing anyone to have one. No one wants to make having a baby illegal.
    "Banning books in spite of the 1st amendment, but refusing to regulate guns in spite of "well regulated militia' being in the 2nd amendment makes no sense. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    West Boothbay Harbor, Maine
    Posts
    25,146

    Default Re: The debate on abortion.

    If society determines that women must give birth against their will under penalty of law then it should financially support the child until adulthood. We do that for the imprisoned, feeding and housing them. I don't see much difference.

    The notion that life is 'a miracle' is nonsense although thought of as an act of God by many involving souls. Miracles are inexplicable one time events but life goes on around us all the time and we know exactly how it comes to pass.
    "Be curious, not judgmental." - (Misattributed to Walt Whitman as recalled by) Ted Lasso

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    12,372

    Default Re: The debate on abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    I don't mind people having different views, but I am unaware of anyone who supports abortion wanting laws forcing anyone to have one. No one wants to make having a baby illegal.
    NO one said thy did.
    Life is complex.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •