The debate on abortion.

[john welsford]

How it is here.

The so called "Morning after pill" is to be much more readily available.

From Radio NZ news on their facebook page.

"Women will have access to abortion medication over the phone from today, when the government rolls out the new national telemedicine service.
The phone hotline will provide clinical consultations for early medical abortions in the first 10 weeks of pregnancy, make referrals for pre-abortion tests, and send out medications."

John Welsford

[John Smith]

I wanted to move there when I retired, but wife didn't, and so much family here.

[skuthorp]

Sounds civilised to me but the authoritarians terrified of their wives and daughters discovering how stupid their men are will find a pseudo-religious reason to complain.

[Hallam]

As I posted on twitter recently, for the GOP, christianity is a trojan horse used to further an agenda that is in stark contrast to the character and message of the person of Jesus as described in the gospels. Increasingly over the past 20 or so years Conservative parties have used wedge issues to their advantage in capturing the swinging vote. The fact that so many Christian or religious leaders buy into the wedge issue of a abortion reveals an incredible lack of wisdom on their behalf. Either that or it may be the case that this reveals they are more political than they are spiritual in addressing the issue.

[Paul Pless]

The fact that so many Christian or religious leaders buy into the wedge issue of a abortion reveals an incredible lack of wisdom on their behalf.

either that, or an incredible amount of sheer hypocrisy on their parts

[CWSmith]

The fact that so many Christian or religious leaders buy into the wedge issue of a abortion reveals an incredible lack of wisdom on their behalf.

It isn't about wisdom. It's about not having clear guidance in scripture and a genuine desire to do the right thing.

either that, or an incredible amount of sheer hypocrisy on their parts

I don't think that most people accurately know how they would respond if it were them or someone they love until it is.

Of course, the politicians who play the abortion card are a different matter.

[skuthorp]

#6
chortle-chortle.

[Hugh MacD]

Cynic that I am; religion is not about souls, it's about control.

[Jack Loudon]

Cynic that I am; religion is not about souls, it's about control.

Always was; from day one.

[Canoeyawl]

Always was; from day one.

The snake in the garden of Eden

[skuthorp]

Humans are like that…………….

[sonofswen]

Saw this bumper sticker yesterday, STOP Christian Nationalism

[David G]

As I posted on twitter recently, for the GOP, christianity is a trojan horse used to further an agenda that is in stark contrast to the character and message of the person of Jesus as described in the gospels. Increasingly over the past 20 or so years Conservative parties have used wedge issues to their advantage in capturing the swinging vote. The fact that so many Christian or religious leaders buy into the wedge issue of a abortion reveals an incredible lack of wisdom on their behalf. Either that or it may be the case that this reveals they are more political than they are spiritual in addressing the issue.

Ayup.

At least some, and an increasing %, of Christianity is. Though not all. The Christian Nationalists. The Evangelical Christians. And certain branches of certain denominations. These people would regard Jesus's second coming as a huge threat, and would hang him from the cross yet again.


A conservative scholar looks to define — and defeat — 'Christian nationalism'


https://www.yahoo.com/news/a-conserv...142138640.html

Conservative writer Paul D. Miller is trying to pick apart these strands and to clarify the issue. Many American Christians are Christian nationalists, he agrees, and that number is growing. He also says that does not mean they necessarily want a theocracy or to eliminate democracy — though some do — and that many critiques of Christian nationalism unfairly lump moderates together with extremists.


But finally, he argues, so-called moderates in the Christian nationalist community have a duty to publicly reject and condemn the extremists in their ranks.

[As much as I agree with him, he's definitely swimming against the tide at the moment]

[MushCreek]

To me, the argument centers around precisely when a fetus becomes a human being. Sure, women have the right to make decisions about their own body, but at some point, another person's body enters the equation. Defining that point ain't easy. It would help if people simply understood and used birth control. In my youth, I sailed into far more ports than I'd care to admit, but I was always appropriately suited up. I fathered exactly one child, when I was ready for the responsibility.

[skuthorp]

And tell me, what's so special about a human mammal MC? All of them work in the same way to reproduce.

[Keith Wilson]

And tell me, what's so special about a human mammal MC? All of them work in the same way to reproduce.

This is very silly. Legally, and by most people's ethics, it's perfectly OK to kill and eat other animals at any stage of development. I had part of one for dinner last night, in fact. You may agree or not, but that contributes nothing at all to a discussion of abortion.

[wizbang 13]

debate ?
these is no debate about abortion
folks fall on one side or the other, i doubt a single mind has ever been changed

[John Smith]

To me, the argument centers around precisely when a fetus becomes a human being. Sure, women have the right to make decisions about their own body, but at some point, another person's body enters the equation. Defining that point ain't easy. It would help if people simply understood and used birth control. In my youth, I sailed into far more ports than I'd care to admit, but I was always appropriately suited up. I fathered exactly one child, when I was ready for the responsibility.

The question is one of who decides; YOU, or the woman and her doctor? Not all pregnancies make it to term. Some develop serious problems and continuing the pregnancy puts the mother's life at risk.

Imagine if all the laws around this and parenting were written by women, rather than men. Things would be very different. I think they'd be better.

For instance, men have convinced themselves that the child needs to know both parents, and have written laws that, essentially, give the dad equal rights. This gets the unwed father out of child support by the courts giving shared custody, and they convince themselves this is in the best interest of the child.

I believe the child needs A stable home. Bouncing between two parents who don't get along is not good for the child.

The religious leaders of the GOP won't stop at abortion. They'll outlaw birth control.

[Gerarddm]

If so-called pro-lifers do not support mandatory early sex education and free universal birth control, then they are not anti-abortion, they are simply anti-sex. I am tired of Christo-fascists trying to impose their will on everybody else.

[Too Little Time]

How it is here.

The so called "Morning after pill" is to be much more readily available.

From Radio NZ news on their facebook page.

"Women will have access to abortion medication over the phone from today, when the government rolls out the new national telemedicine service.
The phone hotline will provide clinical consultations for early medical abortions in the first 10 weeks of pregnancy, make referrals for pre-abortion tests, and send out medications."

We have a more complex situation here, because we are a union of 50 states each of which is able to make their own rules.

Just as your country has rules against some behaviors - that you accept, each of the states has such rules. The problem is that some people don't accept the ones on abortion.

I don't like the rules on abortion, but I can accept that others have a different view and they are a majority where it matters.

[John Smith]

We have a more complex situation here, because we are a union of 50 states each of which is able to make their own rules.

Just as your country has rules against some behaviors - that you accept, each of the states has such rules. The problem is that some people don't accept the ones on abortion.

I don't like the rules on abortion, but I can accept that others have a different view and they are a majority where it matters.

I don't mind people having different views, but I am unaware of anyone who supports abortion wanting laws forcing anyone to have one. No one wants to make having a baby illegal.

[rbgarr]

If society determines that women must give birth against their will under penalty of law then it should financially support the child until adulthood. We do that for the imprisoned, feeding and housing them. I don't see much difference.

The notion that life is 'a miracle' is nonsense although thought of as an act of God by many involving souls. Miracles are inexplicable one time events but life goes on around us all the time and we know exactly how it comes to pass.

[Too Little Time]

I don't mind people having different views, but I am unaware of anyone who supports abortion wanting laws forcing anyone to have one. No one wants to make having a baby illegal.

NO one said thy did.