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Thread: Standing or Balanced or neither

  1. #71
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bainbridge Island WA
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    5,331

    Default Re: Standing or Balanced or neither

    $500 Canadian? Ouch

    On the other hand think of the countless hours of fun you'll have sailing around with an optimal sail!
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  2. #72
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania
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    9,766

    Default Re: Standing or Balanced or neither

    Todd &Tox, if this sail is headed for the dumpster, I see no harm in trying some surgery. It wouldn't cost anything more than some thread in the sewing machine. What might work? Recutting the head and luff to flatten the sail? Or opening up the panels and working in some broad seaming? It seems like it wouldn't get any worse for the experiment.
    -Dave

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Madison Wisconsin
    Posts
    10,787

    Default Re: Standing or Balanced or neither

    Without really seeing it out flat on the floor it is hard to say what to do to it. I haven't been able to see the lower luff, so I'm not sure what's causing what appears to be baggy cloth there. There are certainly enough seams and edges to do some work on it and most likely improve things, but I can't say exactly what from here.

    One thought I had while looking at the video which is still floating around in the aft end of my brain was that in many ways it looked more like a folding gunter sail mistakenly being flown as a lugsail than it was a lug built by somebody who doesn't know how to make a real lugsail. Reinforced head and foot edges, unroped luff, battened roach... sound like anything you have ever seen before?

    IMG_0585.jpg

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Vancouver BC Canada
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    1,030

    Default Re: Standing or Balanced or neither

    I don't have any recent pictures of the sail. This is one from when I was adding reef points and luff reinforcement. Unfortunately it's not stretched out at all and the picture is at an angle. Also one on the boat just after I got it that's kind of straight on.
    I will try to get a better one tomorrow.

    I'm completely fine with doing some sewing. I have the proper thread, basting tape, a good strong old Pfaff as well as access to a Sailrite machine if I need to do a bigger job.

    I will say that i believe this sail was made for this boat, but by a local maker who specialized in modern racing sails and likely had never made a lugsail, thus all the unnecessary details (roping, leech line, fancy reinforcement in strange and wonderful areas.) The dimensions otherwise match the sailplan. He might very well have thought that a lug sail was made the same way as a gunter.



  5. #75
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Madison Wisconsin
    Posts
    10,787

    Default Re: Standing or Balanced or neither

    So why does it look so much better in this last photo than it does in any of the out on the water pix?

  6. #76
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Vancouver BC Canada
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    1,030

    Default Re: Standing or Balanced or neither

    Blew a fuse hear and just lost most of this post..grr

    I can only speculate:

    In the photo above the sail is pretty tightly lashed to the spar, there's no luff reinforcement and barely any downhaul tension

    Here's what's been done to the sail and the rig.
    The sail had luff tape added as per your instructions and reef points. I don't think that's the problem though
    here's what it looked like after those additions but still mostly laced as above.





    The shape in the video might be partly my own stupid blunder, though my measurements to windward predate my recent changes and the video posted

    Early November I replaced the lacing on the spars with robands. Stupidly not taking into account the fact that the spars are a fair bit thicker in the middle (as per the sailplan)

    So the robands were made..varying lengths(longer in the middle) to let the sail be 1/2' off the yard down the length of each spar. I'm not sure what made me think that's the way I should do it, sometimes I make stupid blunders, usually not fatal...

    If the sail should be straight on the edge I should've made all the robands the same length resulting in the sail being close to the spars in the centers.
    Somehow this slipped my mind.
    Also I redid the lashings and outhauls at the corners and maybe I don't have my outhauls tight enough. The original setup always looked too tight to me.

    However I don't have anyone I know personally that can be here and point out mistakes. That's often why I'm seeking information here and always appreciate when people respond.

    I should probably join the local oarlock and sail group, but they're based about 45 minutes away.

    I'm going to bringing it inside to sort all that out tomorrow so I will also get a better picture of the sail laid out. I do really appreciate you sharing your expertise and hope I'm not totally wasting your time.

  7. #77
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Vancouver BC Canada
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    1,030

    Default Re: Standing or Balanced or neither

    Sailing downwind this summer with the original lacing and the luff reinforcement , reef points etc.
    Still looks like there's a pocket along the head of the sail. Downhaul is attached between the original spot and where a standing lug would attach (At least as far as I know)

  8. #78
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Norwich,United Kingdom
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    9,515

    Default Re: Standing or Balanced or neither

    With the original lacings it doesn't look too bad.Maybe a reversion is in order since those robands aren't doing the sail any favours.The original outhaul tension would also seem to be a good idea,and the best thing is how inexpensive it is compared to a new sail.

  9. #79
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Vancouver BC Canada
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    1,030

    Default Re: Standing or Balanced or neither

    Well, in case the sail could be modified for better performance (if it needs it) I have taken some photos having brought the rig inside to fix up the robands /lacings. I don't think robands are bad, just my execution of them.
    I have some pictures of it laid on the ground with spars sans lacing and some pictures of it suspended from it's corners as best I could manage. Damned if houses don't have enough things to lash sails to! Obviously this could be done much better outside, however the weather is not obliging.






  10. #80
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    35,581

    Default Re: Standing or Balanced or neither

    For windward work everything matters.
    The shape of your foils become at least as important as the shape of your sails

    Speed through the water has as much to do with windward ability as any other detail. Simply put the faster you can go, the more efficient your foils (hull, centerboard, rudder) become. You are handicapped by waterline length. (Think water skiing and how well that works if you go fast enough or suicide by jumping off the bridge. It just won't work if you are not moving fast enough)

    This is not to say "give-up".
    It means that every little detail you can improve on will incrementally add up to noticable improvements.
    The sail is your engine...

    "Nothing goes downwind better than a beach ball"

  11. #81
    Join Date
    Nov 2022
    Location
    Cason, Tx, USA
    Posts
    25

    Default Re: Standing or Balanced or neither

    From on the ground to on the boat, that barely looks like the same sail... o.0

    From the way it looks, it seems to me that taking the curve out of the head up by the yard might go a long way toward fixing your problem. Maybe take it back to that sailmaker and ask for a modification? That last picture almost makes me think there's no "belly" (draft?) in the sail until you get past the mast end of the yard and then ALL the belly is up top.

    Edit: I wonder if the sailmaker mixed up a lug rig with a gaff rig. A fixed luff and a peak halyard would probably go a long way toward fixing that belly, if you rigged it as a gaffer...

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