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Thread: bread

  1. #1
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    Default bread

    ****IF YOU ARE AN ANTI CARBS FREAK YOU CAN STOP READING THIS THREAD NOW****

    i crave fresh bread

    i have never baked a truly satisfactory loaf of bread

    is it possible with a plain old not very fancy electric oven and not too much investment in money or time on daily basis or stuff which takes up a bunch of space in a very small kitchen for me to bake at home the following:

    • a soft loaf for sandwiches - appropriately sized and shaped for making sandwiches for packed lunches
    • baguettes
    • ciabatta
    • focaccia


    what do i need for pans and other utensils and 'stuff'? ingredients?

    any advice on how would be greatly appreciated
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: bread

    We get a local dark bread that includes cranberries and almonds. It only remains fresh for about 3 days, so you know it's made right. Toasted with butter and a cup of good coffee and that's a breakfast that changes my whole outlook on the day.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: bread

    YouTube is your friend, Paul. Look for an old lady with an Italian accent, and you'll probably be good. ;-)
    Gerard>
    Albuquerque, NM

    Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic, save the country.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: bread

    you must use time

  5. #5
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    Default Re: bread

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    you must use time
    'splain

    por favor
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: bread

    I got a bug to try that not long ago. Found I didn’t have the patience to acquire the skills necessary especially when there are so many good bakeries close by. You can even buy it partially baked and finish it in the oven if you want it “fresh baked”. Just not worth it in the city, maybe better idea in rural areas.

    As for the time factor, I can walk to several bakeries and be home with fresh bread FAR faster than mixing, kneading, proofing, baking and cleaning up her kitchen.
    Last edited by ron ll; 10-02-2022 at 10:54 AM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: bread

    Rye bread in a Dutch oven is super simple.

    650 grams of bread flour
    100 grams of rye flour
    2tbsp caraway seeds
    1.5 tbsp yeast
    1.5 tbsp salt
    2 cups water

    I use a stand mixer, but you can do it manually.

    Drop it in a bowl, cover with plastic film, let rise 2 hrs in a warm place (my oven actually has a ‘proof’ setting)

    Punch it down, form into a ball. Preheat a Dutch oven to 450 F.

    place the dough on a piece of parchment paper, drop into the Dutch oven, cover, and bake 30 minutes.

    That’s it.
    "Reason and facts are sacrificed to opinion and myth. Demonstrable falsehoods are circulated and recycled as fact. Narrow minded opinion refuses to be subjected to thought and analysis. Too many now subject events to a prefabricated set of interpretations, usually provided by a biased media source. The myth is more comfortable than the often difficult search for truth."







  8. #8
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    Default Re: bread

    I have a dutch oven (heavy iron pot with lid). I've been making this recipe for years. If your yeast is fresh it always turns out well. It's just simple bread and the crust is quite chewy. Bread, simple good tasting bread. You don't need to be a complicated fancy kitchen cat.




  9. #9
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    Default Re: bread

    There are plenty of good bread recipes out there. King Arthur Flour’s website has great stuff available.

    I like a variety of breads, pretzels, pizza, focaccia, sourdough, white, wheat and rye. I prefer a crusty loaf over one without. A Dutch oven or cloche for making the bread, a steam oven or simply misting the oven with water during the bake can do that.

    The time that Lee alludes to is the rise time which sometimes allows for a little fermentation which gives a relaxed gluten and better flavor. Check out recipes that use a biga or poolish - basically pre-ferments before you make up the dough.

    Sourdough is good, but is a way of life to maintain, make dough, and bake. Requires a plan and a rhythm. Once you have a sourdough and a routine you like, it works. There’s also fun stuff to do with sourdough discard - crackers, pancakes, crumpets, etc. We got into the sourdough routine while quarantining for COVID, but can’t get in the swing now that we’re working out of the house.

    Disclaimer : I am married to a breadaholic.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: bread

    You modify the recipes a bit to get what you want. This is my version of the NY Times no knead bread recipe:

    IMG_20140425_223457.jpg

    IMG_20140101_115747 (1).jpg

    IMG_20140101_195548.jpg

  11. #11
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    Default Re: bread

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    'splain

    por favor
    Well, for example... I spend 3 days making my pizza dough. A day for the sourdough starter, a day of cold rising before balling the dough, then a day for a cold rise for the dough balls. Makes a great, very digestible crust.

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    Default Re: bread

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    ****IF YOU ARE AN ANTI CARBS FREAK YOU CAN STOP READING THIS THREAD NOW****

    i crave fresh bread

    i have never baked a truly satisfactory loaf of bread

    is it possible with a plain old not very fancy electric oven and not too much investment in money or time on daily basis or stuff which takes up a bunch of space in a very small kitchen for me to bake at home the following:

    • a soft loaf for sandwiches - appropriately sized and shaped for making sandwiches for packed lunches
    • baguettes
    • ciabatta
    • focaccia


    what do i need for pans and other utensils and 'stuff'? ingredients?

    any advice on how would be greatly appreciated
    Short answer is YES.

    The sandwich loaf will be easiest. I believe that you can force the form by putting just about any recipe into a loaf pan to bake. Chad Robertson in his book, Tartine tells of a restaurant chef who wanted to make Robertson's sourdough bread. But he didn't have enough time to form the loaves, so he put the developing dough into pans instead. It turned out as great bread anyway.

    Bguettes take a bit of fussing. Leave them until you get "hooked" on bread making.

    Simple ciabatta is easy, but it's a high hydration so difficult to handle. You will need patience and practice and a sense of humor.

    Focaccia is something I haven't tried but it's basically a simple pizza dough that is spread into a sheet pan. The bake time is fast... about 20 minutes. This is still all theory for me but as it happens I'm going to attempt some focaccia myself today. Exciting!

    I use Ken Forkish's book, Water Flour Salt Yeast as my usual reference.

    Jeff

  13. #13
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    Default Re: bread

    Time develops both gluten and flavor. Kneading can replace time but it doesn't do a thing for flavor. Kneading can make one hungry through the exertion of it all, if you do it long enough.

    Jeff

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    Default Re: bread

    1) Flour, preferably bread flour for white(ish) breads. Other grain and/or nut flours, depending on recipe and your taste preferences;

    2) Levener - more often than not yeast, or a 'starter' (either self-created or brewed with a kick-start from somebody else's starter batch);

    3) Salt. Not too much. Table salt will do.

    That's really it.

    Type of flour will influence the texture, taste, and nutritional value of your loaves.

    Type of levener has much the same effect with taste as #1.

    How you bake your loaves doesn't matter a whole lot but it should be relatively fast and hot rather than warm & delayed. 350°F is about the lowest I'd bake anything, 425°F the max.

    My go-to pizza dough recipe's 1 c water, 2-3/4 c unbleached all-purpose flour, 1/4 c bread flour, a pinch of salt, 1 tbs dry yeast.

    Add yeast to water at 130°F, stir in 1 c a/p flour, allow to rest for an hour.

    Add 1 c a/p flour & salt, mix, rest for an hour.

    Dump out onto counter (ours is 'synthetic' marble), slowly add remaining flours, kneading constantly. Near the end, add more flour if what you've been punishing tends to stick to your hands. A little sticking's not bad, a lot needs flour.

    Near the end knead in 1 or 2 tsp olive oil until you can't feel it anymore.

    Place dough in a greased bowl at least four times the dough's volume. Leave it at room temp for an hour, then flatten on a floured countertop w' fingers first, then maybe a rolling pin if it's too stiff to work to shape desired.

    Place flattened dough on pizza board. Wet outside 1" or so of dough with water, then roll crust to fit on pizza board. You can add shredded cheese inside the rolled crust if you want a treat, or have a dog or six that deserves one.

    Pizza stone pre-heated to 450° gets the completed, unbaked pizza. Leave at 450° F for 15 minutes, then lower temp to 400° F.

    Crust ends up thin yet stiff enough to support multiple toppings. Those that are really wet (tomatoes, artichoke hearts) get ridded of excess moisture before being added. Otherwise crust can suffer from water, be soggy.

    I have a super rosemary plant in the garden this year I need to take some cuttings for drying later today. That makes for a wonderful addition to fall loaves for sandwiches or breakfast toast. Maybe 2 tbs dried per cup of flour, less if that sounds like too much. Smells awesome while baking, but then so does pretty much ALL bread!

  15. #15
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    Default Re: bread

    -a big stainless steel mixing bowl
    -fresh yeast (a bit of an oxymoron as a fresh large bag of Red Star lasts for me in the fridge for years...don't buy the envelopes or little glass jars unless fridge space is at a premium)

    flour (about 3 cups) water (a little less than 1 cup) yeast (1 tsp per cup flour) salt (1 tsp per 3 cups flour)

    There is a little 'feel' involved to know when it is too dry, too wet as to whether to add flour or water to correct. Eventually one finds a happy place where it is not sticky or chalky and once kneaded feels lively.

    Mix in bowl with wooden spoon, knead with hands coated in favorite cooking oil, let rise covered with thin cotton dish towel 70-80F ambient air temp 1 hour, shape on flour-coated board, let rise again, bake 375 F until thumping on it sounds hollow and crust is at preferred color.

    Original recipe IS from an Italian grandmother via a book from the library, trouble being she made it in large batches, so it had to be dumbed/scaled down for my occasional use. I use it for basic bread and pizza dough and if the pizza is big enough, I take the remainder and finish out as cinnamon rolls for the next morning (roll flat, butter top face, sprinkle cinnamon and sugar, roll, slice, arrange in greased pan to rise).

    PS If you want a 'yellow sweet' dough it usually has an egg and some cooking oil in it along with sugar.
    Last edited by Spot; 10-02-2022 at 12:22 PM.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: bread

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    'splain

    por favor
    not too much investment in money or time on daily basis or stuff which takes up a bunch of space in a very small kitchen
    It takes the time and space it takes. It takes time for the yeast starter to kick off, 20 min or so. It takes time and effort to mix and knead the dough and ckean up. 30 min or so. Wait for it to rise an hour or three depending on temps. Punch down, divide, knead and form into desired shape or pan. Clean. Another hour or two temp depending. Then the time and attention to bake. First few times getting to know the flour and yeast in your space as well as the oven. So hold you expectation low for the first few batches. Try two loaf batches at first.

    I too love bread. Stopped off at WHoleFoods two days ago and got a lovely loaf that is now gone. Love, crave, desire, covet, you name it the carbs will be MINE.

    Over the last year I’ve been making pan breads on the stove that are more like English muffins or thick pancakes.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: bread

    I take it that one's Man Card is not forfeit, as with salad dressings?
    If Russia wins, there will be no Ukraine; if Ukraine wins, there will be a new Russia.

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  18. #18
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    Default Re: bread

    It isn't salad dressing if you use it as a dipping sauce
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: bread

    I've not had much luck with the no knead breads so I make a recipe I call buttermilk white with oats. I use a stand mixer for the mixing and part of the kneading and bake it in a french bread shaped cloche, the clay baker helps the crust get chewy.

    buttermilk white






    Ingredients large loaf


    Large (2 lb. loaf)

    1/2 cup water
    1 cup buttermilk
    1/4 cup vegetable oil
    4 cups bread flour
    1/2 cup oatmeal
    2 tsp salt
    1 TBSP Red Star Active Dry Yeast
    1/4 cup sugar


    Instructions


    Combine dry mixture and liquid ingredients in mixing bowl with paddle or beaters for 4 minutes on medium speed.
    Gradually add flour and knead with dough hook(s) 5 to 7 minutes until smooth and elastic.




    RISING, SHAPING AND BAKING


    Place dough in lightly oiled bowl and turn to grease top. Cover; let rise until dough tests ripe.
    Turn dough onto lightly floured surface; punch down to remove air bubbles. Roll or pat into a 14 x 7-inch rectangle.
    Starting with shorter side, roll up tightly, pressing dough into roll. Pinch edges and ends to seal.
    Place in greased 9 x 5-inch loaf pan. Cover; let rise until indentation remains after touching
    . Bake in preheated 375°F oven 30 to 40 minutes. Remove from pan; cool.

    Tips? keep your yeast in a cool dark dry place with the lid on tight.
    Use cultured buttermilk don't bother with the lemon juice/whole milk substitute.
    I let my loaves rise in the oven with the light on,it keeps a 90-100f temp with no drafts.
    Have a go at kneading your bread by hand, it's a good way to spend ten mins or so, almost theraputic.
    The whole process takes several hours start to finish but you're only directly involved for about an hour.
    The aroma and taste of your creation makes it all worth it.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: bread

    Despite working too many hours at the hospital, my sweetie manages to tend a sourdough blob. She uses the whole wheat sourdough for almost everything. Bread, biscuits, pancakes, crackers, English Muffins. Even with corn meal for an interesting 'cornbread' concoction. I love the flavor. Excellent for savory recipes, and even surprisingly good for sweets.
    David G
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  21. #21
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    Default Re: bread

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    ****IF YOU ARE AN ANTI CARBS FREAK YOU CAN STOP READING THIS THREAD NOW****

    i crave fresh bread

    i have never baked a truly satisfactory loaf of bread

    is it possible with a plain old not very fancy electric oven and not too much investment in money or time on daily basis or stuff which takes up a bunch of space in a very small kitchen for me to bake at home the following:

    • a soft loaf for sandwiches - appropriately sized and shaped for making sandwiches for packed lunches
    • baguettes
    • ciabatta
    • focaccia


    what do i need for pans and other utensils and 'stuff'? ingredients?

    any advice on how would be greatly appreciated
    I've been working on pure sourdough (no added yeast) bread for a number of years. It doesn't take much space to make good consistent loaves but it does take practice. You need a bowl big enough to hold the rising dough and a deep dutch oven, you don't want the baking bread to rise up against a too-low lid. Good flour helps too. Knead (or fold as Forkish says) the dough in the bowl, it does not need to get all over your countertop.


    I do a long second proof in wicker baskets dusted with flour, I like the look of the rings around the loaf.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  22. #22
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    Default Re: bread

    I understand that the right flour makes a difference. Back when I was baking a lot of bread, I just used whatever w.w. organic was available at the co-op. These days, my sweetie will go out of her way to make sure she gets hers from Bob's Red Mill. https://www.bobsredmill.com/shop/flours-and-meals.html
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  23. #23
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    Default Re: bread

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    I've been working on pure sourdough (no added yeast) bread for a number of years. It doesn't take much space to make good consistent loaves but it does take practice. You need a bowl big enough to hold the rising dough and a deep dutch oven, you don't want the baking bread to rise up against a too-low lid. Good flour helps too. Knead (or fold as Forkish says) the dough in the bowl, it does not need to get all over your countertop.


    I do a long second proof in wicker baskets dusted with flour, I like the look of the rings around the loaf.
    oh man that is a beautiful thing

  24. #24
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    Default Re: bread

    Fresh flour, fresh yeast. A really hot pre heated oven. I bake my bread in the oven of the old wood stove- I keep the best wood for bread baking days. I often dissolve a tablespoon of local honey into the water before I mix, and after kneading I shape the loaf, drop it in a well greased tin (usually spray oil in a can) and only let it rise once- sat in a warm spot above the stove and covered with a tea towel- before it goes into the oven. If there's a lot of air in the mix it can cause big voids in the bread- apparently my kneading style compensates for this And I really like kneading dough. I get in a rhythm and zone out for a while. And the white flour I use for flouring the kitchen counter to keep it non stick is in its own container and separate from the bread flour. JayInOz

  25. #25
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    Default Re: bread

    My wife was on a bread making kick for years. She made it in a cheap "bread maker" then removed it before it baked in that thing, and baked it in a tin pan in the oven.
    Yum...
    An interesting thing happened, the longer (in years) she was at it, the better it got, something to do with the yeast remaining in and around the kitchen. But really the flour has everything to do with it. In the 1980's she had a regular customer at the restaurant who showed every morning at 5:30, for coffee served with a pretty smile, they chatted, he was a baker and gave her a few tips. (She was a waitress) His ovens were around the corner and he would walk over when the starter loaves went in. After a while he started bringing her flours. He was a German immigrant complaining that he couldn't find good flour here in the US.

    This guy:https://beckmannsbakery.com/pages/our-story

    It was pretty darn good, and easy, she made a loaf every week, and I do miss it.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: bread

    One of many projects on my to-do list is a wood fired oven. I suspect there will be quite a learning curve
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  27. #27
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    Default Re: bread

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Disclaimer : I am married to a breadaholic.
    I 'am' a breadaholic. My former employer sent me to a month-long class once, and I walked into the shared apartment with 5 grocery bags - one held 6 various loaves of bread. My 3 roommates at that class always called me 'Breadman' whenever we spoke after that. I have encountered few breads that I did not like
    Charter Member - - Professional Procrastinators Association of America - - putting things off since 1965 " I'll get around to it tomorrow, .... maybe "

  28. #28
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    Default Re: bread

    This is way better than Paul's salad dressing thread.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: bread

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    One of many projects on my to-do list is a wood fired oven. I suspect there will be quite a learning curve
    One of my buddies built a wood-fired pizza oven. It was a huge hit. He's also a serious bread & pastry baker - did it professionally for years.

    He said the only time he'd have one for bread is if he used it every day, so he could stay in tune with it. But the pizza version he is quite happy with. As are all those who ever sampled its wares.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  30. #30
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    Default Re: bread

    Now that I'm retired, I make all of our bread, but I have been making bread for 45 years. It's simple, if you follow a few rules. First, yeast is a living thing. Whenever some says, "My bread didn't rise!", I know that they killed the yeast somehow. I use SLIGHTLY warm water to activate the yeast, and never let the dough get too warm or cold. Cold won't kill yeast, but it will slow it way down. You can even freeze bread dough and it will come back to life when warmed up. I buy a pound of instant yeast at a time, and keep it in the freezer.

    Texture- This is the hardest thing to teach. There are recipes with very specific quantities of flour, water, etc. I make mostly hearth loaves (no pan), so the dough has to be just right. Too soft and it slumps; too dense and you get a brick. Rye flour is doubly tricky because it lacks gluten and is sticky to work with. No-knead recipes are about as simple as it gets, and is a good way to get a toe in the water. They say that the only accurate way to measure ingredients is by weighing them.

    Baking temperature- Get a good oven thermometer and use it. Many (most?) ovens are off, some drastically so. I was teaching a friend, and her fancy new oven would not hold temperature above 350 F. Above that, it just shot up to 'surface of the sun'. Some breads bake low-n-slow, some are hot-n-fast.

    Like the sneaker company says, just do it. Practice makes perfect. Unless you're way, way off on something, even poorly made homemade bread will be edible, and good. It ain't rocket surgery.

    We have Jewish Rye Bread for lunch every day. I bake two huge loaves, slice it, put parchment paper between the slices, bag it and freeze it. I also make an Oatmeal Bread with all kinds of healthy crap in it. Baguettes are use regularly to make garlic pesto bread, or to have with soups. My wife has gotten proficient at making bagels. My holiday go-to is a huge 4-1/2 lb. loaf of French Country Bread, made from a dough that works for three days, and has a wonderful crunchy crust. It gets more raves than anything else on the Thanksgiving table.

    If there's any interest, I'll share recipes here.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: bread

    In all honesty I'd start with foccacia. It doesn't need a NASA-hot oven like baguettes or ciabatta, it doesn't need to ferment for days and days to have good flavor, and all the olive oil makes the dough-handling very forgiving.

    "Gael's Saturday Foccacia" (King Arthur) is easy and tasty. 4 hours start-to-finish is about as fast as decent bread will get.
    Be generous with the oil. Really, if you don't feel like you're using too much oil it means you aren't using enough.

    I like to add whole cloves of roasted garlic at the dimpling step, and I also use a sheet pan instead of cake rounds, but you do you.
    "Visionary" is he who in every egg sees a carbonara.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: bread

    Quote Originally Posted by MushCreek View Post
    My holiday go-to is a huge 4-1/2 lb. loaf of French Country Bread, made from a dough that works for three days, and has a wonderful crunchy crust. It gets more raves than anything else on the Thanksgiving table.

    If there's any interest, I'll share recipes here.
    Tell me more Oh Wise One That big loaf sounds good! JayInOz

  33. #33
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    Default Re: bread

    Quote Originally Posted by JayInOz View Post
    Tell me more Oh Wise One That big loaf sounds good! JayInOz
    Recipe please!

  34. #34
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    Default Re: bread

    Quote Originally Posted by JayInOz View Post
    Tell me more Oh Wise One That big loaf sounds good! JayInOz
    I'm game to try that too MC.

  35. #35
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    Default Re: bread

    I'll type it up in the AM. It's one of the simplest breads I make.

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