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Thread: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

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    Default Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    My other half turns on CBS each morning. Among the ads for various pharmaceuticals and injury lawyers are the political ads.
    The Republicans are heavily pushing on the economy, inflation, and Pelosi (the devil incarnate).
    The Dems are concentrating on abortion, abortion, abortion.
    Will they burn up any impact the theme used to have? Are they over doing it?
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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    Best ask young women. If I had to bet, I'd say it will be quite effective. I expect this is driven by polling.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    no one is gonna change their mind on the economy

    not many current voters are gonna swing on abortion

    but maybe the dems get some heretofore unregistered otherwise ambivalent young people registered on their side
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    I'll say it again: if the same percentage of young people voted as old people, things would look very different. Particularly in non-presidential elections.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?


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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    My other half turns on CBS each morning. Among the ads for various pharmaceuticals and injury lawyers are the political ads.
    The Republicans are heavily pushing on the economy, inflation, and Pelosi (the devil incarnate).
    The Dems are concentrating on abortion, abortion, abortion.
    Will they burn up any impact the theme used to have? Are they over doing it?
    Might hinge on the consequences of unwanted pregnancy.
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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    A bunch of older men are probably not the best people to answer the question.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    The Dems are concentrating on abortion, abortion, abortion.
    Will they burn up any impact the theme used to have? Are they over doing it?
    While it is a worthwhile issue, there are other issues that might attract more voters. But the Democrats have a lot of unfulfilled promises on those issues. Perhaps abortion is one of the few that the Democrats might have left.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    The Dems are concentrating on abortion, abortion, abortion.
    You might be using a broad brush

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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    The Republicans are heavily pushing on the economy, inflation, and Pelosi (the devil incarnate).
    I don't think that Biden or the Democrats are responsible for the current state of the economy or inflation, both of which are getting better.

    Pelosi is not my favorite politician, but she's not the devil, either. Her greatest sin is that she is too often tone deaf.
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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    The Republicans are very busy defining everyone else’s agenda for them.

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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    The Republicans are very busy defining everyone else’s agenda for them.
    They are good at that. Plus, any real conversation of any real issues requires thought and they have taught their followers not to think. That makes meaningful discussions of the economy very difficult, but "Pelosi is the devil!" very easy.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    I suspect the answer is no.

    The R's have made a living by exploiting - or manufacturing, then exploiting - Wedge Issues. Now they've inadvertently created a powerful one for the other side. As I understand the polling this is the D's best opportunity to return the favor. And so far it seems to be working.
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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    Repugnicans appeal tpo those who think roads and water distribution are free and are already growing weary of backing the Ukraine. The dems are investing in an issue where folks live, or die, as was the case with wife's niece who got an abortion only weeks before they became illegal in Wisconsin.

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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    I'll say it again: if the same percentage of young people voted as old people, things would look very different. Particularly in non-presidential elections.
    That is also true of low income people.

    When one moves with some frequency, it is not that easy to stay registered to vote.

    And that is no accident.

    (we have lived in the same house for almost 40 years - never had to re-register)

    In civilized countries, it is the GOVERNMENT'S responsibility to see that everyone is registered.

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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    Despite what the Seeds might have to say, I would say NO the Dems can't push the issue too much. I speak and lecture in front of mostly female audiences ranging in age from 18 to 85 across 5 SE states and it is in a whole lot of places, while I am setting up, one of the largest topics of conversation I have heard over the last 16 years of presenting.
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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by sandtown View Post
    That is also true of low income people.
    Some data. It's worse than I thought, but it's not just registration. (Source) Off-topic, but interesting.





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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    While it is a worthwhile issue, there are other issues that might attract more voters. But the Democrats have a lot of unfulfilled promises on those issues. Perhaps abortion is one of the few that the Democrats might have left.
    So says an old white man who will never find himself in need of an abortion.
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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    If my 33 year old daughter is any indication, I would say no. Every single one of her friends is incensed and is sure to vote en masse against Republicans.

    I say yay. See my signature.
    Last edited by Gerarddm; 09-29-2022 at 07:51 PM.
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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    Every single one of her friends is incensed and is sure to vote en masse against Republicans.
    Agree.
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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    Interestingly, Michael Moore, who correctly predicted Trump’s victory in 2016, says he’s increasingly optimistic about the midterms.

    Jeff C
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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    538 has a discussion of this issue, lots of data and nuance, no firm conclusions. One interesting part; you can read the rest here.

    . . .the gender gap is a measure of one fairly specific thing: how women vote relative to men. And that can be complicated when it comes to abortion, because men and women overall have very similar views on the issue. As we’ve written before, whether someone supports or opposes abortion rights has much more to do with their view of gender roles than their own gender. It’s possible, for example, that if left-leaning men are also unusually motivated to turn out, the gender gap could be smaller. A similar dynamic happened in 2020, when men moved toward President Joe Biden, resulting in a smaller gender gap compared with 2016.

    So far, the evidence about how men are responding to the Dobbs ruling is mixed. Over the past few months, polls have found over and over again that rising concern over abortion is most dramatic among women, and reports of surging voter registration have focused on women. Kelly Dittmar, a political science professor at Rutgers University-Camden, said this makes sense because women — in particular, reproductive-aged women who support legal abortion — are more likely than men to feel personally threatened by the sudden loss of abortion rights.

    But there have also been reports of higher-than-usual voter registration among young men. An analysis of a series of polls by the nonpartisan firm PerryUndem,2 shared with FiveThirtyEight, before and after the Dobbs ruling found that men of reproductive age were more likely to prioritize “safe and legal abortion” as a voting issue. In our polling average,3 we found that the gender gap for both Democrats and Republicans grew from June through September, but the gap grew more for Republicans than for Democrats. The two gaps are lopsided because men’s share of support for Democrats has grown as well as women’s, which means that the full magnitude of the shift doesn’t show up in that party’s side. Meanwhile, the shift in the Republicans’ gender gap shows something different: While the share of men supporting Republicans hasn’t changed meaningfully since June, the share of women supporting Republicans has declined, causing the gap to increase.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    I do think the Democrats need to reject the Republican claim that they are in favor of anytime, anywhere, and regardless of age. Roe v Wade was a reasonable compromise and parental notification for minors is the right thing to do. I don't know if there are laws out there that do not require parental notification, but I am sure the Republicans will make that claim if they can. It would help Democrats to make a clear statement that Roe v Wade is not anti-family.

    That said, Democrats cannot run from their principal values. They need to articulate them.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    My other half turns on CBS each morning. Among the ads for various pharmaceuticals and injury lawyers are the political ads.
    The Republicans are heavily pushing on the economy, inflation, and Pelosi (the devil incarnate).
    The Dems are concentrating on abortion, abortion, abortion.
    Will they burn up any impact the theme used to have? Are they over doing it?
    I doubt it's possible to overdo this issue.
    "Banning books and not guns seems backwards. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    I'll say it again: if the same percentage of young people voted as old people, things would look very different. Particularly in non-presidential elections.
    Abortion may well be the issue that brings those younger voters out.
    "Banning books and not guns seems backwards. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    I think guns are another issue that may drive a lot of voters, but doesn't get as much coverage. Most Americans, I believe (hope) are tired of school shootings, church shootings, etc.......and may be apt to vote for those who want some gun regulations.
    "Banning books and not guns seems backwards. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    I do think the Democrats need to reject the Republican claim that they are in favor of anytime, anywhere, and regardless of age. Roe v Wade was a reasonable compromise and parental notification for minors is the right thing to do. I don't know if there are laws out there that do not require parental notification, but I am sure the Republicans will make that claim if they can. It would help Democrats to make a clear statement that Roe v Wade is not anti-family.

    That said, Democrats cannot run from their principal values. They need to articulate them.
    Might note that there is a proposed state constitutional amendment on the Michigan ballot that would establish a very broad right to an abortion. :

    This proposed constitutional amendment would:

    Establish new individual right to reproductive freedom, including right to make and carry out all decisions about pregnancy, such as prenatal care, childbirth, postpartum care, contraception, sterilization, abortion, miscarriage management, and infertility;
    Allow state to regulate abortion after fetal viability, but not prohibit if medically needed to protect a patient’s life or physical or mental health;
    Forbid state discrimination in enforcement of this right; prohibit prosecution of an individual, or a person helping a pregnant individual, for exercising rights established by this amendment;
    Invalidate state laws conflicting with this amendment.
    Should this proposal be adopted? [10]


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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    Katherine - You got that right - I do not believe men should have any say in a Woman's right to choose. If the shoe was on the other foot - believe me Abortion would be readily available and free!
    Last edited by Wine47; 09-28-2022 at 05:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    If the Catholic Church had been run by an all-female hierarchy for all that time, abortion would be a sacrament.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    I don't think this is written in a very clear manner, but it seems to say that the mother has the right before viability and the state after? Isn't that rather close to Roe v Wade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    Might note that there is a proposed state constitutional amendment on the Michigan ballot that would establish a very broad right to an abortion. :

    This proposed constitutional amendment would:

    Establish new individual right to reproductive freedom, including right to make and carry out all decisions about pregnancy, such as prenatal care, childbirth, postpartum care, contraception, sterilization, abortion, miscarriage management, and infertility;
    Allow state to regulate abortion after fetal viability, but not prohibit if medically needed to protect a patient’s life or physical or mental health;
    Forbid state discrimination in enforcement of this right; prohibit prosecution of an individual, or a person helping a pregnant individual, for exercising rights established by this amendment;
    Invalidate state laws conflicting with this amendment.
    Should this proposal be adopted? [10]

    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wine47 View Post
    Katherine - You got the right - I do not believe men should have any say in a Woman's right to choose. If the shoe was on the other foot - believe me Abortion would be readily available and free!
    Then I hope you also do away with all forms of child support including after divorce and especially if the wife files for it.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wine47 View Post
    I do not believe men should have any say in a Woman's right to choose.
    But they do. Justice Blackmun, the author of Roe v. Wade, was a man, and he said men do have a say. At some point, society's interests outweigh those of the mother.
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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    We are talking about abortion here - Not child support!

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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    If the Catholic Church had been run by an all-female hierarchy for all that time, abortion would be a sacrament.
    Amen!

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    Default Re: Is the DNC pushing too hard on the abortion issue?

    Why would "Society" outweigh the desire of the Mother. Do you think I should decide your outcomes?

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