Results 1 to 35 of 35

Thread: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    62,256

    Default Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    This is who, based on considerable research. (Source.) The distinction between Hispanic Protestants (largely hard-core evangelical) and Catholics is particularly interesting, and probably has a great deal to do with Hispanics voting for Republicans.





    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    44,027

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Unbelievable, but true, sadly.
    "Banning books and not guns seems backwards. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    62,256

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    And more:

    The QAnon Conspiracy Scale

    PRRI created a composite measure from the three questions that acknowledge the core tenets of QAnon beliefs. Responses to these questions were combined into an additive scale, which was then recoded into three groups: 1. QAnon believers: Respondents who completely or mostly agreed with these statements (14%); 2. QAnon doubters: Respondents who mostly disagreed with these statements (46%); and 3. QAnon rejecters: Respondents who completely disagreed with all three statements (40%).

    PRRI created a composite measure from the three questions that acknowledge the core tenets of QAnon beliefs. Responses to these questions were combined into an additive scale, which was then recoded into three groups: 1. QAnon believers: Respondents who completely or mostly agreed with these statements (14%); 2. QAnon doubters: Respondents who mostly disagreed with these statements (46%); and 3. QAnon rejecters: Respondents who completely disagreed with all three statements (40%)/QUOTE]





    And to sum it up, this is who's likely to believe this shi!t. Note Hispanic Protestants again.

    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 09-24-2022 at 09:26 AM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    N. Fal on Cape Cod
    Posts
    18,437

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    It's September of 2022. That data is ancient.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
    And other things, too.
    http://www.landsedgephoto.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    62,256

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    It's September of 2022. That data is ancient.
    16 months. You think it has changed much? I'd bet not, myself, but I certainly could be wrong.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    83,345

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Quite interesting. Thanks.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    N. Fal on Cape Cod
    Posts
    18,437

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    A more recent perspective:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVnyDa_OoyY
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
    And other things, too.
    http://www.landsedgephoto.com

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the hills
    Posts
    67,911

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Nothing about the pizza parlor pedophiles.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    62,256

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Yeah, Beau's talk is quite good, and I hope he's right, but it's rather beside the point.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Marblehead MA
    Posts
    3,273

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Q is (like every other conspiracy and secret society) developed by a small number of people. These polls make a pretty strong argument that we have a national security interest in finding them and putting them away. We did it to Osama, and he was never an existential threat to the republic.
    Yachting, the only sport where you get to be a mechanic, electrician, plumber and carpenter

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    35,354

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Who actually reads it?

    Dreck, all of it

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    40,106

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    That first set of 3 plots scares me because the numbers don't change very much from one question to the next. That suggests that if you believe one, you believe all three.

    A corollary to that is "If you are crazy, then you are truly bat-sh1t crazy!"
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    44,027

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Let us not forget that what we KNEW about Trump BEFORE the 2016 election was that he'd cheated on all his wives, bankrupted MOST of his businesses, and LOST suits for discrimination, failing to pay contractors, and fraud.

    Yet, look at all those who seemed to think he was the second coming of Christ.
    "Banning books and not guns seems backwards. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    31,279

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    They need to be put into FEMA re-education camps. Transported by black helicopters, too. Security courtesy Jewish space lasers. :-)
    Gerard>
    Albuquerque, NM

    Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic, save the country.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    62,256

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Oh, they all go together, I think. The Qanon stuff is all part of a coherent myth; utter nonsense, but consistent, and those who believe one will tend to believe all. I'd bet they're also susceptible to various other kinds of conspiracy stuff - and I really wonder if a fundamentalist Christian way of looking at things also predisposes one to that, or that people who think that way are more likely to be evangelical Christians.

    There's a Plan, right? It's Foretold in the Holy Book, and this all the events of this world are aspects of a titanic struggle between shadowy forces of Good and Evil. And you don't need evidence; in fact having Faith is morally superior to actually figuring things out based on observation and experiment. The Covid vaccine contains surveillance microchips that are the Mark of the Beast in Biblical Prophecy! And any evidence to the contrary has been planted by Satan or his agents to undermine your Faith, right?

    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 09-24-2022 at 04:09 PM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    The Garden State
    Posts
    9,961

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    You mean stuff like this?

    k64q7a1jsup91.jpgk64q7a1jsup91.jpg
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

    -Dalai Lama

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    62,256

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Oh, that kind of horsesh!t is basically harmless. How about this - and it's NOT a parody, believe it or not.

    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 09-24-2022 at 05:46 PM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    40,106

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    ^ That is obscene beyond my ability to express myself!
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bainbridge Island WA
    Posts
    5,164

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Oh, they all go together, I think. The Qanon stuff is all part of a coherent myth; utter nonsense, but consistent, and those who believe one will tend to believe all. I'd bet they're also susceptible to various other kinds of conspiracy stuff - and I really wonder if a fundamentalist Christian way of looking at things also predisposes one to that, or that people who think that way are more likely to be evangelical Christians.

    There's a Plan, right? It's Foretold in the Holy Book, and this all the events of this world are aspects of a titanic struggle between shadowy forces of Good and Evil. And you don't need evidence; in fact having Faith is morally superior to actually figuring things out based on observation and experiment. The Covid vaccine contains surveillance microchips that are the Mark of the Beast in Biblical Prophecy! And any evidence to the contrary has been planted by Satan or his agents to undermine your Faith, right?

    I had been trying to find a way to say much the same thing without offending the faithful here. Thank you
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Location
    Norwalk, Ohio
    Posts
    34,691

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson
    There's a Plan, right? It's Foretold in the Holy Book, and this all the events of this world are aspects of a titanic struggle between shadowy forces of Good and Evil. And you don't need evidence; in fact having Faith is morally superior to actually figuring things out based on observation and experiment. The Covid vaccine contains surveillance microchips that are the Mark of the Beast in Biblical Prophecy! And any evidence to the contrary has been planted by Satan or his agents to undermine your Faith, right?

    Umm... they emphasize the parts of The Bible that they think support their delusional political beliefs and ignore the rest.

    Revelation 13:16:

    Last edited by Tom Montgomery; 09-24-2022 at 07:10 PM.
    "I'll tell you why [religion's] not a scam. In my opinion, all right? Tide goes in, tide goes out. Never a miscommunication. You can't explain that."Bill O'Reilly

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    62,256

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    I had been trying to find a way to say much the same thing without offending the faithful here. Thank you
    I don't know whether I offended anyone, but I do know that if I were a Christian, the everyday behavior of the weirder evangelicals, much less that Trump book, would bother me about as much as anything possibly could. Aside from the name, that kind of religion has almost nothing to do with the type of Christianity practiced by TomF or Peb or CWSmith.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 09-24-2022 at 08:59 PM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    44,027

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    I don't know whether I offended anyone, but I do know that if I were a Christian, the everyday behavior of the weirder evangelicals, much less that Trump book, would bother me about as much as anything possibly could. Aside from the name, that kind of religion has almost nothing to do with the type of Christianity practiced by TomF or Peb or CWSmith.
    People get to call themselves whatever they wish. Those who call themselves Christians don't really tell you much of their beliefs.
    "Banning books and not guns seems backwards. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    62,256

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    People get to call themselves whatever they wish. Those who call themselves Christians don't really tell you much of their beliefs.
    As I've said before, I include as 'Christian' anybody who calls themselves that, and any religion that claims Jesus was a Very Big Deal. Some do what I think are good things, some bad. I leave distinctions about 'real Christians' or 'good Christians' to the believers.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Tacoma, WA
    Posts
    20,932

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Until you’ve been in the Philippines at easter, you’ve not experienced fanatical religious belief.
    ITS CHAOS, BE KIND

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bainbridge Island WA
    Posts
    5,164

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    I get the sense that a MAGA rally is pretty fanatical.

    The correlation between evangelicalism and conspiracy theory beliefs makes sense to me. If you are willing to base your world view on one set of mythic stories, ignoring or decrying any that don't agree with your chosen set it makes sense that you might be in a position to fall for another set of fantastical tales, especially if they buttress some aspect of your core beliefs.

    "An it harm none, do what ye will" works pretty well for me.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    62,256

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    The correlation between evangelicalism and conspiracy theory beliefs makes sense to me. If you are willing to base your world view on one set of mythic stories, ignoring or decrying any that don't agree with your chosen set it makes sense that you might be in a position to fall for another set of fantastical tales, especially if they buttress some aspect of your core beliefs.
    Seems to fit the data, anyway. In previous times when we knew far less about the physical world, and people's experience and access to information was far more limited, your average guy could believe myths because he didn't know any better. In 2022 it really takes a special kind of thinking to believe that the earth is 6000 or so years old, and only a fraction of people can manage it.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 09-25-2022 at 11:36 AM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    25,790

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Jesus speaks, disciples pay close attention.

    Several hundred years later the Emperor of Bizublium says, OK, but these other freaks are useful to me. Put their stuff in as well.

    Like letting Q Anon write an appendix to the Constitution.
    If Russia wins, there will be no Ukraine; if Ukraine wins, there will be a new Russia.

    -- Dmytro Kuleba, Foreign Minister of Ukraine

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    12,128

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    The correlation between evangelicalism and conspiracy theory beliefs makes sense to me. If you are willing to base your world view on one set of mythic stories, ignoring or decrying any that don't agree with your chosen set it makes sense that you might be in a position to fall for another set of fantastical tales, especially if they buttress some aspect of your core beliefs.
    You fail to consider that some see faith as a proper path in life. Faith does not rely on reason.

    There are a large number of people who have faith that we can control global warming to an acceptable level. I use the term faith because rational belief may disagree.

    But one's faith is one's faith and the faith of others is misguided.
    Life is complex.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Bainbridge Island WA
    Posts
    5,164

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    You fail to consider that some see faith as a proper path in life. Faith does not rely on reason.
    I recognize the right of people to live their lives following whatever faith path they have decided to believe in, my issue is with those who would force their unreasoned path on others.

    Global climate change is a scientific and political problem not an argument between fairy tales.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    49,544

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    I don't know whether I offended anyone, but I do know that if I were a Christian, the everyday behavior of the weirder evangelicals, much less that Trump book, would bother me about as much as anything possibly could. Aside from the name, that kind of religion has almost nothing to do with the type of Christianity practiced by TomF or Peb or CWSmith.
    And it does indeed bother me more than most other things possibly could.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    44,027

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    As I've said before, I include as 'Christian' anybody who calls themselves that, and any religion that claims Jesus was a Very Big Deal. Some do what I think are good things, some bad. I leave distinctions about 'real Christians' or 'good Christians' to the believers.
    If someone tells you he/she is a Christian, what does that really tell you about them? I'd say not much. In fact, it probably leads me to believe they are LESS than honest, as a true follower of their faith wouldn't need to tell me of their faith.

    Does that make sense?
    "Banning books and not guns seems backwards. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    49,544

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    People get to call themselves whatever they wish. Those who call themselves Christians don't really tell you much of their beliefs.
    Depends on the person, John. Over the years I've written a whole lot about what I believe, partly to distinguish it from what the folks described earlier in the thread believe.

    I mean, what you mean when you say you believe in your Constitution isn't what the Trumpists believe when they say it, eh? You'd each claim you're right.

    A way to resolve the issue is to parse what "Constitutional Republic" actually means, and what the received thought of the founders tells one, found in their own writings at the time, and shortly after.

    I might say something similar about how to understand what Christianity is about. Read the letters from Paul, which are the earliest Christian documents we've got. Then the Gospels, which are relatively soon after. While you're at it, look at the writings of Jewish rabbis contemporary with Jesus, to see how Jesus himself likely understood the Jewish tradition in which he firmly stood.

    Tell me after reading such whether it says anything about slaughter, or sending away immigrants, or pretty much anything that the Trumpists think Quristianity requires.

    You'll find that they're as good at reading Christian originating documents as they are reading the Constitution or the Federalist Papers.
    Last edited by TomF; 09-26-2022 at 08:30 AM.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    31,279

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Bill Maher had the simplest analysis: " There are a LOT of stupid people in this country".
    Gerard>
    Albuquerque, NM

    Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic, save the country.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    62,256

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    Bill Maher had the simplest analysis: " There are a LOT of stupid people in this country".
    There are, but at least in my experience, weird evangelical religious beliefs, or even conspiracy theories don't necessarily correlate with lack of intelligence at all, at least as I normally understand the concept. I've worked with quite a few people who were, as far as I could tell, very intelligent in ordinary day-to-day things, were very skilled at building or repairing very complex machinery, could successfully diagnose very complicated and subtle problems, could think logically with the best of us - and yet they sincerely believed things connected to their religion that would make a cat laugh. It's like all of their critical reasoning shut off completely when faith is concerned.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    N. Fal on Cape Cod
    Posts
    18,437

    Default Re: Who Actually Believes This Stuff??

    They need approval - they get it at work by being good at work, they get it in their social lives by being dutiful and useful in their social communities which happen to be centered around their religious persuasion.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
    And other things, too.
    http://www.landsedgephoto.com

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •