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Thread: Rumours

  1. #1
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    Default Rumours

    Probably nothing of substance but we will know in a day or two, rumours across the internet of a military coup in China and that Xi Jinping is under arrest after CCP seniors removed him as head of the PLA. Is the massive cancellation of flights in China just a military exercise, or is there something more to it?

    https://www.smobserved.com/story/202...05.html?m=true
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    Default Re: Rumours

    Jezus

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    I don’t look at this site much. This is from flight aware. I was wondering if it was true that flights in China are grounded. Europe for comparison.

    2DBF7D92-52DE-4222-AE8F-C918E82AA363.jpg

    AF076EE6-041C-43F6-9C07-5FCE70D436CE.jpg

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    Default Re: Rumours

    seriously folks, something this big and the bbc, npr, the nyt, newscorp, fox, al jazeera, acb, etc etc are not reporting anything on the subject???

    find better speculative news sites
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Rumours

    As far as I can tell an internet rumour so far….. but flights do seem to be somewhat sparse.

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    Default Re: Rumours

    Would this be good news or bad news? Would the military want to move more aggressively against Taiwan and other matters, or slow things down after seeing what has happened to Russia?
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    I don't see that. Putin, that's another story.
    Gerard>
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    Default Re: Rumours

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    seriously folks, something this big and the bbc, npr, the nyt, newscorp, fox, al jazeera, acb, etc etc are not reporting anything on the subject???

    find better speculative news sites
    Did you get out on the wrong side of the bed this morning? ( one question mark is enough ) That’s why the thread is titled rumours and not speculative news and in my first sentence I reinforced the probable lack of veracity in this rumour. Therefore any discussion can be about the rumour and consequent what if’s.
    Twitter has a lot of posts on it but my guess is it is 90% likely to be not the case so would be very surprised if the rumour was based on fact.
    Last edited by Hallam; 09-24-2022 at 05:11 PM.
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci.

    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question.

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    sorry, it was a pre-coffee post
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Rumours

    .
    Hmm....

    Li Qiaoming: General at Center of China Coup Rumors on Social Media

    BY XANDER LANDEN ON 9/24/22 AT 4:04 PM EDT

    Unsubstantiated reports that Chinese President Xi Jinping is under house arrest and that China is in the midst of a military coup swirled on social media on Saturday.

    Among the unproven rumors circulating is that Li Qiaoming, a general for the People's Liberation Army (PLA), China's military, has replaced Xi.

    Li was born in 1961 and was promoted to serve as a general—the PLA's highest rank—in 2019, according to Indian television station OdishaTV. Li is also a member of the Chinese Communist Party's (CCP) central committee.

    Li had been considered a contender to serve as a member of China's Central Military Commission—a panel with authority over military decision—according to news outlet Nikkei Asia. Several members of the seven-member body are expected to retire next month.

    Nikkei Asia reported that Li wrote an article that resonated with Xi, who has wanted to increase the communist party's control over the army.

    "The Soviet Union collapsed because the party didn't have its own army," Li's article stated, according to the outlet.

    Indian Twitter accounts have seemed to prominently promote the rumors about the Chinese president.

    The rumor that Xi had been ousted was boosted by Indian politician Subramanian Swamy, who tweeted Saturday: "When Xi was in Samarkand recently, the leaders of the Chinese Communist Party were supposed to have removed Xi from the Party's in-charge of Army. Then House arrest followed. So goes the rumour."

    Last week, Xi attended the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) leaders' summit in Samarkand, Uzbekistan, and met with Russian President Vladmir Putin.

    In his opening remarks, Putin wished Xi success at the Chinese Communist Party's 20th National Congress next month. CCP members are expected to grant Xi an unprecedented third term as leader at the twice-a-decade event, which traditionally involves a change in leadership after two terms.

    Gordon Chang, an expert on China and the author of the book, The Coming Collapse of China, tweeted Saturday that the "lack of news from #China over the last few hours suggests coup rumors are untrue, but whatever happened inside the #Chinese military during the last three days—evidently something unusual occurred—tells us there is turbulence inside the senior #CCP leadership."

    "The unexpected events in #China started right after #XiJinping came back from #Uzbekistan and disappeared from sight for days, something unusual for him. There are extremely few coincidences in elite #CCP politics," he later added.

    In an interview with Newsmax on Saturday, Chang said that there have been "unusual" and "abnormal" events occurring in China over the last few days, including the country's decision to cancel 60 percent of its flights on Wednesday and suspend bus and high speed rail travel in and out of Beijing.

    He also mentioned a widely shared video posted on Twitter is also reported to show a line of military vehicles up to 80 kilometers long heading into Beijing amid reports of a military coup.

    "There's been a lot of smoke, that says there is a fire somewhere. We don't think that there has actually been a coup, but at this point there have been some extremely troubling developments at the top of the Communist Party as well as the top of the People's Liberation Army, which reports to the party, so something is terribly wrong," Chang said.

    Newsweek has reached out to the Chinese Foreign Ministry and Chinese Embassy for comment.

    https://www.newsweek.com/li-qiaoming...-media-1746041
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    Apparently Xi’s leadership term is up and he is seeking his third term in October:

    https://amp.abc.net.au/article/101399126

    As Xi Jinping seeks his third term in power in the upcoming 20th Communist Party Congress, one man is counting down to retirement.
    Li Keqiang, premier of the Chinese government and the country's second-most powerful man, is expected to quit politics after 10 years of ruling China with Xi.
    While Li, 67, will have to wait until March 2023 to end his role, his name will likely be excluded from the list when Congress announces the new group of Chinese Communist Party (CCP) leaders in October.
    Last edited by Hallam; 09-24-2022 at 05:59 PM.
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci.

    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question.

    "Freighters on the nod on the surface of the bay, One of these days we're going to sail away"
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    Xi doesn't run China. He speaks on behalf of those who do. He tows the party line and does exactly what is expected of him, so why would they "topple" him? JayInOz

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayInOz View Post
    Xi doesn't run China. He speaks on behalf of those who do. He tows the party line and does exactly what is expected of him, so why would they "topple" him?
    Where do you people get these weirdass ideas ? Do they have the Enquirer online now or something ?

    I've been doing projects in China for thirty years now and let me tell you, it's you guys who are nuts. China is certainly different from Nebraska but it bears no resembance whatsoever to your fevered imaginations. It's actually a pretty normal place, with some different cultural paradigms. And no, "the people are fine but the government is bad" is a load of Mr Crapper's finest. The government is fine as well. Sometimes they do a good job, sometimes they screw up. So far, it's been heavily weighted towards the "do fine" end.

    It's easy to dispel some of this nonsense thinking - eat a brave pill and go watch some chinese dramas. There's a bunch on youtube, many are silly and it's just teevee but it's way more accurate than the fantasies you engage in. Maybe try this for a starter ...

    https://youtu.be/12Q4VzHpJJA

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    Feel better now Davies? You have a bowel blockage or something? Excessive bile production?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayInOz View Post
    Feel better now Davies? You have a bowel blockage or something? Excessive bile production?
    As I've noticed before, people here are amusing. Scorn heaped ten feet high on MAGA people for being illiterate, ignorant, tribal, and stupid but the instant anyone says anything counter to your wrongly-held uninformed beliefs, it's instant personal attack. That's all you've got because in truth, you don't have a clue about China. Not the vaguest hint of a clue.

    Everything in this thread has been beneath stupid. That's fact. If anyone in this thread had any real experience - worked in, lived in, been part of China for more than a one-week tour I'd be gobsmacked with amazement. Y'all know exactly nothing about the subject.

    But whatever you do, don't let that stop you from making uninformed ignorant statements !!

    And you sneer at Lauren Boebert

    btw, the flight disruptions are easily explained by the (imo) wrong-headed zero-covid campaigns. At this stage of the game I am pretty sure it can no longer be controlled this way. Plus there is always added security before the annual (biannual ? I don't keep track) bigwigs meeting. Every time same.

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    13 posts and you drop into this thread with a know it all attitude full of rebuke. Ok if you know a lot about China. You're welcome to share your knowledge. I have no on ear to the ground experience or knowledge myself. I do think it might be unnecessary to call out our collective ignorance on all things china in the manner you have especially by saying "everything in this thread has been beyond stupid", obviously until you graced the thread with your enlightened contribution, then things took a consolidated step in the right direction by your reckoning. You're from Eureka. Walk into a pup in my neck of the woods with that attitude and I can assure you that you would have a good old Australian eureka moment, one you wouldn't forget in a hurry. Most are fine but we do get the odd loud mouthed American who has been everywhere and knows everything and they invariably end up not liking Australia for some reason...... Here's an invitation for you to enlighten us with some an input of substance rather than a passing comment as an addendum to the slap down.
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci.

    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question.

    "Freighters on the nod on the surface of the bay, One of these days we're going to sail away"
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    I often wonder why I have someone on ignore and then I look. HR, you may have an informed perspective but your delivery is simply offensive.

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    Our new sock; the least cuddly forumite.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

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    The fact that Xi has been fostering a hilariously nonsense cult of personality by enshrining his "thought" into the fabric of Chinese governance tells you all you need to know about how illegitimate his rule is.

    Has the CCCP done economic wonders for the average Chinese? Sure. Increasingly they don't seem to like the tradeoff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HRDavies View Post
    As I've noticed before, people here are amusing. Scorn heaped ten feet high on MAGA people for being illiterate, ignorant, tribal, and stupid but the instant anyone says anything counter to your wrongly-held uninformed beliefs, it's instant personal attack. That's all you've got because in truth, you don't have a clue about China. Not the vaguest hint of a clue.

    Everything in this thread has been beneath stupid. That's fact. If anyone in this thread had any real experience - worked in, lived in, been part of China for more than a one-week tour I'd be gobsmacked with amazement. Y'all know exactly nothing about the subject.

    But whatever you do, don't let that stop you from making uninformed ignorant statements !!

    And you sneer at Lauren Boebert

    btw, the flight disruptions are easily explained by the (imo) wrong-headed zero-covid campaigns. At this stage of the game I am pretty sure it can no longer be controlled this way. Plus there is always added security before the annual (biannual ? I don't keep track) bigwigs meeting. Every time same.
    I don’t like Davies’ manners, which don’t go well, here in this rather courteous backwater of the Internet, but his posts in this thread, subject always to the Old China Hand’s Proviso (“China is so big and so diverse that anything anyone says about it is true of somebody somewhere in China”) seem to me to accord with my own experience.

    I had not posted in this thread, but I have lived for some years in China.

    At lunch last week I remarked to my Chinese boss and some Chinese friends that events in China next week will be like events in London last Monday - there will be a great deal of pomp and circumstance and we all know exactly what is going to happen. That got a laugh.

    When working in Beijing I opened a western news website and was greeted by the news that my employers’ immediate past President had been arrested for corruption. Since I had literally been sharing a joke with him and his successor in the lift ten minutes earlier I sent them both the link. That got a laugh too.

    There is usually increased security during a Party Congress. That and the Covid-19 restrictions, both pointed out by HR Davies probably account for the reduction in air travel.
    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 09-25-2022 at 11:41 AM.
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    We're an international discussion forum. It's OK for us to speculate, and to often be wrong.
    My immediate take on drastically reduced domestic flights in China would be that this is yet another component of the "brilliant" zero Covid policy of the CCP.
    /Erik

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    Some on the ground reporting. Funny.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...s-chinese-coup

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hallam View Post
    13 posts and you drop into this thread with a know it all attitude full of rebuke. Ok if you know a lot about China. You're welcome to share your knowledge.
    No problem. What would you like to know ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    I don’t like Davies’ manners, which don’t go well, here in this rather courteous backwater of the Internet,
    Beg to differ, I do not consider it "courteous" to malign people and governments based on ignorance and yes, stupidity. I am not going to go count the nasty responses but if you'll notice, there were many ignorant, even stupid remarks made about Mr Xi and the evil CCCP (how did the soviet union get involved in this ?) The rumor itself is dumb, but the rush to malign Mr Xi is exactly as I described it, a clear case of the retarded herd mentality displayed by the MAGA's this forum despises. It's not one whit better or different.

    Not one person commenting here knows Xi jinping. No one making these retarded value judgements knows a damn thing about China or its government or civilization. They couldn't buy a bowl of huntun in Pudong airport, but they feel qualified to disparage a man and government that have done a tremendous amount of good for its people.

    Courteous ? right. More like disgusting.

    p.s., quoting "Tyler Durden" and the Epoch Times, jesus. Why not cut to the chase and go direct to the John Birch Society ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by HRDavies View Post
    No problem. What would you like to know?
    Well, I have spent a quarter of a century puzzled by these questions:

    1. Given that the bicycle light is unknown in China, how do people cycle in the dark in large convoys without ever hitting anything?
    2. Why are there four times more ladies’ model Flying Pigeons in Tianjin than men’s versions?
    3. What were the original Eight Essentials? (I think I did once know this, but I’ve forgotten it.)
    4. Why did such a capable nation never develop the use of sheepdogs?

    Genuine enquiry. I do know how to buy a bowl of dumplings, but there is always a danger of ordering a bowl of faceless legendary monsters by mistake. (I don’t try this with pens!)
    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 09-25-2022 at 02:07 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    Well, I have spent a quarter of a century puzzled by these questions:
    Some things are unknowable

    1. Given that the bicycle light is unknown in China, how do people cycle in the dark in large convoys without ever hitting anything?
    They may be using sonar, listening to the constant bell cling-clinging. What's more mysterious is how they can also drive with the headlights off to save electricity. Luckily, that is disappearing with the advent of cars that automatically turn the lights on when it gets dark.

    Another traffic mystery is how do scooter riders live past twenty ? I have never once seen one of them look before blasting out into traffic off the sidewalk ... often against traffic. Or both. Not once.

    To be serious for a moment, since the advent of traffic cameras, road behavior has improved by about six orders of magnitude. If you haven't ridden around since the cities installed traffic cameras that automatically send violations to the registered owner, you'd be amazed. It's almost disappointing. Where walking to the store once was a first-person 3d video game, risking life and limb to attain the goal, now it's almost boring.

    And with this system they don't shoot black people 48 times in the back over a broken taillight. So maybe this "surveillance society" thing has an upside.

    2. Why are there four times more ladies’ model Flying Pigeons in Tianjin than men’s versions?
    To be honest, I can't remember seeing a men's model bicycle anywhere. But from riding with the dog in the basket upfront and the girl with parasol on the rack in back, it would be very difficult to do this with the men's crossbar. Without the crossbar you can just go and stop, go and stop without swinging your leg up and over the rear wheel.

    3. What were the original Eight Essentials? (I think I did once know this, but I’ve forgotten it.)
    Which eight essentials ? The new year's dishes, the ba gua, the wuxia form of martial arts, the bamboo grove ... oops, that was seven .... and oh yeah, the # eight wang if there is any number that's popular in China, that would be eight. Followed closely by six. There must be hundreds of cute little sayings involving various numbers. Figure out which one you want and I'll ask the associate who teaches China culture in high school ?

    4. Why did such a capable nation never develop the use of sheepdogs?
    Aged as I may be, that would be before my time. However, in the more recent past, people were afraid of dogs. I think it wasn't the dogs themselves as much as the rampant rabies. It's not paranoid : I know of two cases where foreigners were playing with strays and got nipped, didn't think anything of it, and later died of rabies. Dogs with licenses have to get a rabies shot every year, which is not best practice but that's how it is. Unfortunately, many country people do not bother with rabies shots and a lot of city people also don't want to pay the money and hassle for a license, so the problem is real.

    What I consider a truly valid complaint about China is that the culture has so little respect for nature and wild animals. Recently dogs and to a lesser extent cats have become popular so possibly that will change. I hate seeing a country person with a turtle on a string that they dragged into town to sell for someone's dinner, but s'pose it really isn't any worse than farms and slaughterhouses. Maybe should go vegetarian, sigh.

    (I don’t try this with pens!)
    I find it unfortunate that the words for 'writing brush' and 'cow pussy' are so similar Since my tones are maybe less than perfect, I also avoid the word 'pen' if at all possible.

    (Luckily on the faceless monsters front, I don't have a problem with the difference between huo and hun. Small things for which to be thankful. That and I prefer jiao zi anyway.)
    Last edited by HRDavies; 09-25-2022 at 02:56 PM.

  26. #26
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    Thank you for excellent answers.

    1. We agree

    2. It used to be considered a feature of Tianjin, but nobody knew why. The Flying Pigeon as you will know is a simpler version of the Raleigh Superbe with a welded frame and no Sturmey Archer rear hub.

    3. I am thinking of politics, not culture, here. I recall that the “Eight Essentials” in this context were a follow up by Deng Xiaopeng from the Big Four (television, Flying Pigeon, sewing machine, washing machine) which he started with. But I’ve forgotten what they were.

    4. I think your explanation for the absence of sheepdogs is very likely to be right. I used to live towards the old airport in Beijing and I often saw shepherds with around thirty sheep and no dog, which started me wondering.

    The silence of the Chinese countryside used to disturb me, as an Englishman used to constant birdsong, but I did have a friend who would go bird watching in the hills near Beijing and reported that there were eagles there.

    I think that other nations who are so to speak still leaving the countryside are often similar in their lack of interest in the non-human world.
    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 09-26-2022 at 04:36 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HRDavies View Post

    Beg to differ, I do not consider it "courteous" to malign people and governments based on ignorance and yes, stupidity. I am not going to go count the nasty responses but if you'll notice, there were many ignorant, even stupid remarks made about Mr Xi and the evil CCCP (how did the soviet union get involved in this ?) The rumor itself is dumb, but the rush to malign Mr Xi is exactly as I described it, a clear case of the retarded herd mentality displayed by the MAGA's this forum despises. It's not one whit better or different.

    Not one person commenting here knows Xi jinping. No one making these retarded value judgements knows a damn thing about China or its government or civilization. They couldn't buy a bowl of huntun in Pudong airport, but they feel qualified to disparage a man and government that have done a tremendous amount of good for its people.

    Just to be clear - if you feel Mr. Xi has been somehow maligned you will unapologetically pounce on the offender with all the vitriol you can bring to bear?

    Why?
    Doesn't Mr. Xi have enough power and clout to look after himself? Why are you so compelled to get so emotional about it?

    I could understand it if it were someone defenseless where the continued assertion of a myth is causing ongoing harm. But for Mr. Xi? Frankly, what you've written there just sounds sycophantic.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    Some on the ground reporting. Funny.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...s-chinese-coup
    Thats the first time that I have enjoyed reading a “zerohedge” article. Hilarious!

    I commend it to HR Davies as I think he will enjoy it, too.
    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 09-26-2022 at 04:37 AM.
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