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Thread: My electric bill is going up 60%!

  1. #1
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    Default My electric bill is going up 60%!

    National Grid just informed all us Massachusetts customers that our electric bill is going up 60% effective November. Apparently their cost for obtaining the electricity has gone up 60% and the state approved passing that extra cost onto the consumer. I understand that there is no free lunch - when business costs go up they pass that along to the consumer. But that doesn't make it sting any less to know that.

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    Go solar. Seriously. I generate enough that I get credit in the form of dollars on my bill that I can draw from when generation is low. When the rates go up, so do reimbursements.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Go solar. Seriously. I generate enough that I get credit in the form of dollars on my bill that I can draw from when generation is low. When the rates go up, so do reimbursements.
    I'm curious about:

    1) how many square feet of panels you have;
    2) what the installation cost you;
    3) whether it was subsidized in some way by your electric utility company, the company doing the installation, or a tax benefit;
    4) were panels manufactured here in the USA or (more likely) China;
    5) what's their anticipated lifespan;
    6) what's your average monthly KWh usage?

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Go solar. Seriously. I generate enough that I get credit in the form of dollars on my bill that I can draw from when generation is low. When the rates go up, so do reimbursements.
    Yes but even with the 30% tax credit is is very expensive to install. Especially if you include battery storage. And before they install it I would need to get a new roof adding more to the cost. The technology is good, but I think it needs more time for the next big breakthrough in price and/or capacity.

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Go solar. Seriously. I generate enough that I get credit in the form of dollars on my bill that I can draw from when generation is low. When the rates go up, so do reimbursements.
    We have, enough capacity to enable a battery to be fitted. Bill since last January is A$139.60.owing to feed in tariffs, (that are being reduced al the time to keep the privatised power company afloat).
    Panels Chinese made from Australian tech (No capital could be raised to keep it here)
    Installation subsidised by the State, saved them from having to build another coal fired power station, existing oneS are being phased out.

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    [QUOTE=Boatbum;6729503]National Grid just informed all us Massachusetts customers that our electric bill is going up 60% effective November. Apparently their cost for obtaining the electricity has gone up 60% and the state approved passing that extra cost onto the consumer. I understand that there is no free lunch - when business costs go up they pass that along to the consumer. But that doesn't make it sting any less to know that.[/QU



    I just read that National Grid requested state regulators for a 64% increase but didn't read that it had been granted yet.
    Seems the increase is due to the Ukraine war screwing up the supply of natural and liquid natural gas.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    I'll gladly pay that to support Ukraine.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    So whats that per kilowatt hour? How do rates among others compare?

    In Ontario ours varies by time of use 8.2 off peak to 17.2 on peak.
    Last edited by L.A Marche; 09-22-2022 at 08:33 AM. Reason: Additional information

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    I'll gladly pay that to support Ukraine.
    What about all the families that can't afford it? It's nice when you have a lot of money. You can live and support a cause.

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    Before this increase Massachusetts had one of the highest electric rates $.21/KWH. I think only Alaska and Connecticut were higher.

    Oops, Hawaii is the highest by far. $.32/KWH

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    Yes but even with the 30% tax credit is is very expensive to install. Especially if you include battery storage. And before they install it I would need to get a new roof adding more to the cost. The technology is good, but I think it needs more time for the next big breakthrough in price and/or capacity.
    Low interest loans are usually available so the payment on the solar installation is less than the electric bill was. Then once it is paid off, usually in 10-15 years, it is free power time.

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    Quote Originally Posted by sp_clark View Post
    I'm curious about:

    1) how many square feet of panels you have;
    2) what the installation cost you;
    3) whether it was subsidized in some way by your electric utility company, the company doing the installation, or a tax benefit;
    4) were panels manufactured here in the USA or (more likely) China;
    5) what's their anticipated lifespan;
    6) what's your average monthly KWh usage?
    1)I can't tell you exactly how many square feet we have, but there are 28 panels for a total of 7kW of generation.
    2)Total bill (less re-reoofing, which was needed anyway) was just over $22k
    3)There were several subsidies. One from the installation company. Two tax subsidies from the state, one from the Federal government. The state offered a program that was going town by town installing solar panels. If you reached certain "tiers" of installed kW per person, there were discounts for all installations that matched the tier. Where I live, the city reached the highest tier and we saved $3K off the top - the install would have been $25K. There was an immediate credit from the state of $1k, then there was another credit on our state tax bill the next year for $1.5K. The federal government incentives took 30% off the $22K figure for another $6.6K. In total, the benefits for the installation reduced the cost to us by $12.1K, so we actually "paid" just under $10K for the system. On top of that, there is a program called the SREC program that auctions off our "green" generation by the Megawatt generated. Since installed, we've generated over 73 MWh. Average SREC value is $300/MWh, - so far we've received about $20k in SREC credits, on which we pay taxes as this is income. We will be eligible to receive these SREC credits for a total of 10 years - so until about mid 2024.
    4) Panels were manufactured in Canada.
    5) Anticipated lifespan is about 25 years and both the panels and the micro-inverters are warrantied for that period of time, although we know from other's experiences that they do last longer. We have had one micro-inverter fail in the 7 years we've had the system. Cost about $250 for the guys to come and install the warrantied part.
    6) Average monthly kWh usage has actually dropped since we installed the panels due to other energy-saving efforts we've made in the house, so that's tough to nail down I'd say our typical use is between about 4-6 kWh per month. Two simple, low-cost improvements that made a huge dent were replacing incandescent light bulbs with LED's throughout the house, and installing timers on some power strips to shut them off when we're not home, or are asleep. Things like TV's, cable boxes, and chargers draw juice just sitting there in the "off" setting waiting for you. We have electric appliances, a forced-air oil furnace, and we installed a heat pump to offset oil use, so our heating and cooling in the house is all done with solar power until the temperature reaches about 30F.

    We used a home equity line of credit to pay for the system and it took about 5 years to pay for itself - so for the past three years, it has provided us with both electricity and income and reduced our oil use by about 40%. We have also not paid an electricity bill since the system was installed. Nadda. We've been very pleased with the decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    Yes but even with the 30% tax credit is is very expensive to install. Especially if you include battery storage. And before they install it I would need to get a new roof adding more to the cost. The technology is good, but I think it needs more time for the next big breakthrough in price and/or capacity.
    Depends on how you do it. There are some schemes where you can have someone come in and install a system on your roof at no cost to you. You pay an agreed price per kWh and there aren't delivery charges, but there are some fees and taxes. It is typically below the price of market rate electricity by a good amount. The downside is that the credits are going to the company, not you. If you can swing it, buying your own system makes more sense, financially. Panel generation capacity and efficiency has increased since we installed the system and the way that inverters are done has changed as well, so yes, the technology has been a breakthrough. A friend had a larger system than mine installed about 4 years after ours was. It was about 25% cheaper than what we paid because prices have come down for parts.

    We don't have battery storage. We are a grid-tied system - our excess feeds the grid and is used by others. We are credited for what we feed to the grid by the power company in credit dollars on our bill. When we're not generating or generating enough for our use, we draw from the grid and pay out of the credit dollars. Essentially, we use the grid as our storage battery. Generally, I don't regret it as we don't have many power outages. However, when the power is out, our inverters shut down to avoid back-feeding the grid, so we have no power. Newer systems have smart ATS switches that shut the main breaker off from the grid, but allow you to use power you're generating in the event of an outage.

    The roof? I can't help you there - if you think you need one, you need one.

    Because we generate more electricity than we're using, we're looking at replacing the oil-fired hot water heater with a hybrid heat-pump hot water heater to take better advantage of those credits and reduce our oil use some more. Another consideration is a vacuum-tube hot water heater for the roof. We'll see.

    While things look painful at first, financially, they do work out.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    The heat pump water heaters also dehumidify - a nice side benefit.

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    The heat pump water heaters also dehumidify - a nice side benefit.
    Yes, that is a nice plus. Because of the heat exchanger’s location for the heating system being in the furnace duct, the basement is dry for most of the big humidity months in the summer. During the Spring and Fall when neither heating or cooling is needed, the humidity rises. The heat pump hot water heater would definitely help with that.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    That's about what mine has done. We had split pipes installed a few years ago (we didn't have AC) and the heat pump made electricity was a good deal, but both electricity and oil are up.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    why does the right hate electricity so much ?
    I have a RWW brother in law who was WAY ahead of his time in his hatred for electric cars, now half my FB feed is "patriots "bashing tesla

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    why does the right hate electricity so much ?
    I have a RWW brother in law who was WAY ahead of his time in his hatred for electric cars, now half my FB feed is "patriots "bashing tesla
    I think it's because the right is based in large part on "I want it and I want it now. I don't want to change. I shouldn't need to change. I want it."

    They want the old-fashioned vroom they grew up with.
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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    I've been having a bad experience with people coming to give estimates on window replacement. I'd like to think those who come to sell solar would be nicer, but I'm doubtful.
    "Banning books and not guns seems backwards. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    Only 60%?
    Lucky you.

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    Seems someone (? here) have talked about Federal programs supporting various electric enterprises, including cars, electric appliances etc. Don't have a link; but wonder if they would also list businesses that could provide estimates/installation.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    why does the right hate electricity so much ?
    I have a RWW brother in law who was WAY ahead of his time in his hatred for electric cars, now half my FB feed is "patriots "bashing tesla
    I don't hate electricity. Actually kind of fond of it - hence my frustration at a 60% increase.

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    Pretty good kit. Off-grid minimizes interaction with authorities having jurisdiction. Needs about $8,000 in LiFePO4 server rack batteries (about 20,000 watts). Get cheap or used solar panels.

    248809CF-8915-4255-8D2E-06CA5F7104C2.jpg

  23. #23
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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    why does the right hate electricity so much ?
    I have a RWW brother in law who was WAY ahead of his time in his hatred for electric cars, now half my FB feed is "patriots "bashing tesla

    For the same reason the left love it so much. Ignorance.
    The right hate it because they don’t understand the benefits of the chamge, the left love it because they don’t understand the costs of the change.

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    For the same reason the left love it so much. Ignorance.
    The right hate it because they don’t understand the benefits of the chamge, the left love it because they don’t understand the costs of the change.
    Costs? Did you read above?
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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  25. #25
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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Go solar. Seriously. I generate enough that I get credit in the form of dollars on my bill that I can draw from when generation is low. When the rates go up, so do reimbursements.
    Yes, I'e 4000w of panels on my house roof, my winter electricity bill is about US$60 a month and my summer one is generally a few bucks in credit. I do a lot of my cooking with bottled LPGas, and it runs the hot water as well, but thats only about $25 a month so my energy bills are not high. Courtesy of Mr Sunshine. It works really well.

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    Quote Originally Posted by StevenBauer View Post
    Before this increase Massachusetts had one of the highest electric rates $.21/KWH. I think only Alaska and Connecticut were higher.

    Oops, Hawaii is the highest by far. $.32/KWH
    Ours appears to be $0.1765 per kWh. We also pay an Energy Efficiency Charge, a Past Storm & Power Fixed Charge, an Emerald Ash Borer Charge, a Current Energy/Major Storm Adjustor, and an Electric Assistance Program Fee. Our usage ranges from about 350 kWh per month to about 550 kWh.

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    My fees are greater than my electric usage. Just another tax.

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    The title of this thread is likely misleading.

    I doubt your distribution charges and other fees will be changing. It’s only the energy charge that will be increasing.

    So 20-30% increase overall (depending on your usage). Still significant, but a far cry from what your claiming.

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowolf View Post
    The title of this thread is likely misleading.

    I doubt your distribution charges and other fees will be changing. It’s only the energy charge that will be increasing.

    So 20-30% increase overall (depending on your usage). Still significant, but a far cry from what your claiming.
    Damn! I just looked it up and I stand corrected. While distribution charges and other fees will remain unchanged, the 64% increase is the projected bill for a customer consuming 600kw-h.

    Dude. That’s harsh.

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    You haven't seen anything yet. I predicted this 5 years ago when the country, drunk on cheap fracked natural gas, started planning to shut down nuclear plants that literally had decades of life left and of course coal plants, many of which had state of the art pollution controls. I wish I could predict lottery numbers this well.
    You must be the change you wish to see in the world."
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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/it...1857bbc5a06afc

    I do not know why any fears about switching to a all electric transportation system has to be seen as a red or blue thing!
    I don't like nukes, dams cause very long term problems that we probably won't ever be able to fix, and solar is not going to help anybody but the rich. So I guess that make me a right wing wacko.
    Doesn't anybody remember Enron?

    Seattle has been doing this for a long time, make a tunnel or a bridge a red or blue issue and it will pass. (as long as its blue or pseudo green)

  32. #32
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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    I don't hate electricity. Actually kind of fond of it - hence my frustration at a 60% increase.
    You need to travel

    IMG_4742.jpg
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Costs? Did you read above?
    You misunderstand what I mean by the cost. Of course.

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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    When we bought our home in ABQ it came with a 21 panel PV solar array. In sun-happy New Mexico, we generate more power than we use, every month. Our monthly electric bill is roughly $4.75, basically an account fee.

    In a few years as more charging stations are built we will probably exchange the Forester for an electric SUV and run the thing for free.
    Last edited by Gerarddm; 09-23-2022 at 10:41 AM.
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  35. #35
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    Default Re: My electric bill is going up 60%!

    Our electric co-op started playing a game with its customers earlier in the summer. Their electricity charge to customers remains low at 7 cents/KwH. However, they've added on a "production cost" fee that brings it up to 15 cents/KwH...

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