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Thread: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

  1. #1
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    Default Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    Hello All,

    Doing some research on cutter rigs on 20-24 ft gaff rigs and came across these pics. It appears that this rig is the gaff sloop that comes with the plans.
    but the builder added a bowsprit and the second headsail. The mast seems to be in its original position as shown in the sloop sailplan.
    This boat is the Huon Seal. Not sure who built it but I believe it was owned at one time by Rob J on Woodwork forum.


    Here are some questions I have:

    Would adding the jib on a bowsprit cause excessive lee helm by moving the COE forward?

    Would both headsails only be used on certain points of sail?

    The boat appears to be sailing fairly close to the wind.

    Thanks for any comments


    Twin-Headsails-2_700.jpg7b00cc5e9ae3d32194504f0165af4ee9.jpg

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    I dunno but unless you find someone here familiar with that boat (quite possible) I would email Iain O and see what he thinks.
    he may have had input on the mod.
    bill

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    That setup is unusual in that the two stays terminate at the masthead. Normally, the inner sail's stay would terminate lower on the mast so that the two headsails don't interfere with each other -- both for airflow and for clean tacking.

    As far as the balance question goes, I don't know why, but all manner of boats mount big sails on long bowsprits, and it works just fine. I used to fly a big code zero off the end of a 5-foot sprit mounted on my trimaran. The setup was not in the original design, but the boat worked well and balanced as though it wasn't there. I suspect the force of the sheet aft on the rail counters the pull on the sprit.
    -Dave

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    Thanks for that info Dave. This is a subject I like to delve into deeper. There are a couple of designs that I am considering building that I would like to explore adding a bowsprit. I guess I am just drawn to sailboats with them! And extra sailcloth dripping everywhere. Haha!
    I think I'll contact Mr. Oughtred in this example and get his thoughts. I'll put the info into an article and post it here.
    Please comment and I'll use that info in my article.

    Kevin

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    Rob posted here on WBForum quite a bit about Huon Seal, too.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    Tacking that double headsail rig would get old fast for me. The outer jib is a blade, probably because it would be a struggle to get a big overlapping headsail past the inner stay. I don't see what good the inner headsail does, except when used by itself in stronger winds when the outer headsail is rolled up.

    If it were me, I would put all the area into one headsail. Not just for ease of handling, but it should point better with a single headsail, or no worse with a few rolls in the jib.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    Quote Originally Posted by krsluder View Post
    Hello All,

    Doing some research on cutter rigs on 20-24 ft gaff rigs and came across these pics. It appears that this rig is the gaff sloop that comes with the plans.
    but the builder added a bowsprit and the second headsail. The mast seems to be in its original position as shown in the sloop sailplan.
    This boat is the Huon Seal. Not sure who built it but I believe it was owned at one time by Rob J on Woodwork forum.


    Here are some questions I have:

    Would adding the jib on a bowsprit cause excessive lee helm by moving the COE forward?

    Would both headsails only be used on certain points of sail?

    The boat appears to be sailing fairly close to the wind.

    Thanks for any comments


    Twin-Headsails-2_700.jpg7b00cc5e9ae3d32194504f0165af4ee9.jpg
    There are times when I wish I was younger, that is such a beautiful design.
    without freedom of speech, we wouldn't know who the idiots are.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    On the pictured boat... that aft shroud would limit down wind running quite a bit. And tacking would be much less bother if the inner jib was self tacking on a club.

    Jeff

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    I think that aft shroud is actually a running backstay. Between that and the two headsails there would indeed be a lot of work for each tack!
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    If you are worried about the amount of work in tacking the cutter headed rig (which won't amount to much in a boat that size) you could fit a boom on the staysail and make it self tacking.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    Good info guys

    Thanks

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    Really a pretty boat. I've seen that there is a bigger version of 7,49 meters (24,5 feet) but i can not find any info about it like Headroom, ballast, sail area etc.
    I even seen a blogspot of a build but specifications table of some sort.
    If anyone would know anything , would very much be appreciated thanks in advance.
    Jim

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?


    Are you thinking of this one? Described as a stretched GS.

    More here:
    http://straydogboatworks.com/oughtre...ingyachts.html
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    Yeah ! thats it ! thanks Steve Thats it.

    I found out Margret, Andrews build of the Grey Seal in the forum. He pointed out that there is comfortably sitting room for a 5,10.

    Roan Mhor as other Oughtred plans, show no Standing room or some other extensive numbers.

    Thanks to Andrew, the Grey Seal gaff version(yeahhh gaff )sail area is 265 sq ft .

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    Just looking at that drawing I'd say you would have to be about 4'-6" tall to stand up in that cabin. Maybe 4'-9" at the tall end.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    The much missed Peter Sibley commissioned this boat the meet his deisgn brief of standing headroom in a 24' hull:


    Pretty far removed from the shallow draft centerboarders Iain Oughtred leans towards.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    Not a cutter, but standing headroom in a 24’ hull, with 3’ 10” draft—Fenwick Williams ANNIE:
    0957C387-30CA-4FA8-8E95-79B23B151634.jpg

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    I don't know what Brendze and Wester did but as designed that boat has 5'-6" headroom at the forward end of the cabin and barely 5'-11 under the companionway hatch aft. (I have a set of plans hanging within sight of my computer chair)
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    The much missed Peter Sibley commissioned this boat the meet his deisgn brief of standing headroom in a 24' hull:


    Pretty far removed from the shallow draft centerboarders Iain Oughtred leans towards.
    Lovely boats, thanks Steve for bringing to my attention Dias Design. Both Kathleen Gee and Kathleen Ann are great boats for my range You just made it more difficult for me

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    Anyone know, where is ANNIE now?

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    Quote Originally Posted by John hartmann View Post
    Not a cutter, but standing headroom in a 24’ hull, with 3’ 10” draft—Fenwick Williams ANNIE:
    I think ive seen this been sold at an online broker. Not much fan of yawls-ketch-bermudan despite their beauty. I have a weakness for gaff cutters

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thad View Post
    Anyone know, where is ANNIE now?
    She has had a mooring in Brooklin, Maine the past two seasons at least.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    Thank you, John. Good to know.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    Quote Originally Posted by RampantMule View Post
    Really a pretty boat. I've seen that there is a bigger version of 7,49 meters (24,5 feet) but i can not find any info about it like Headroom, ballast, sail area etc.
    I even seen a blogspot of a build but specifications table of some sort.
    If anyone would know anything , would very much be appreciated thanks in advance.
    Jim
    I am building a Roan Mhor. Projects been taking longer than I thought, but I hope to have it launched late next summer.
    Interior is completed, it does not have standing headroom, but it does have a lot of internal space for a 24 ft boat. It's a big 24 ft boat. It's centerboard is offset, so the trunk makes a good bench to st on when working in the galley. I have an enclosed head, along with 2 berths. One berth converts to a 2 person table.
    Iain drew me a gaff yawl rig, which moved the mast well forward. Single headsail with tack on end of bowsprit. Even with the sloop rig, I do not think 2 head sails make sense at all, but certainly not on the yawl with the mast moved 20 inches forward. I will have a removable inner stay for a heavy weather sail.

    I also have a keel stepped mast, as the size of boat seemed rather border line to have a deck stepped gaff rig. Also, I plane on keeping it in the water, so mast won't be raised and lowered very often.

    He originally drew it as below with an inboard rudder. Hus newer plans show it with a transom hung rudder. I built the inboard version donto it being a yawl and I wanted a simple tiller.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?

    I just did a quick measurement of headroom. Measuring of course from the cabin sole, and to the beams, I have about 52" at the fore of the cabin and about 56" at the fore of the sliding hatch. But that is plenty of sitting headroom everywhere, I am about 5'11'.

    The sail area of the Gaff Yawl is about 360 sq ft. Also, Iain drew my gaff yawl with a leg-o-mutton mizzen.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Oughtred Grey Seal cutter?


    This is "Nettie" same hull as "Annie" but with a cutter rig. Boat Design Quarterly ran an article on the design that mentions the new rig and extended cabin as something Fenwick Williams drew at the request of the builder.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

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