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  1. #1
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    Default Itís over.

    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    Can't wait to see the bell curve.

    Here? I still wear a mask at work whilst dealing closely with customers. Deaths in the UK are ~50/day, hospital admissions about one hundred times that.

    The plus side, wearing a mask, I only need shave twice a week.

    Andy
    "In case of fire ring Fellside 75..."

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    Just back from a New Orleans wedding and it is over there for sure, not a mask or social distance in sight. I should know by Wednesday if I got away with it.

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    Default Re: Itís over.

    Since there is little self reporting - it might as well be over. Biden needs good news and to show progress. Can't blame him.
    We may never be done with masks. Few will be ostracized for donning them for health reasons or anonymity. The root causes of death and illness when combined with Covid will remain truly ignored. Those who brought it up shouted down as clueless, ignorant and/or troublemakers. Rather than get folks healthy, eat right and actively exercise never was suggested throughout this period. We told people to stay home and isolate - clearly the most dangerous social set of events of our lifetime causing huge lifestyle changes and distorting human connection.

    I am sure glad I did what I did during this Covid era. I saw things and went places never to be that way again. All of us may never see places and things as pristine as they were and without masses of people. The page has turned and we are lessor for it.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 09-19-2022 at 03:51 PM.
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    Since there is little self reporting - it might as well be over.
    there are other solid methods of extrapolating the data: hospitalizations, icu beds, covid specific treatments prescribed

    self reporting was never work accurately; what has been a real pity it that states were able to count cases according to their own political whims - that was and remains the dse
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    ...The root causes of death and illness when combined with Covid will remain truly ignored. Those who brought it up shouted down as clueless, ignorant and/or troublemakers. Rather than get folks healthy, eat right and actively exercise never was suggested throughout this period. ...
    Agree
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    I don't think that people denied that co-morbidities were a dominant factor in Covid deaths. I don't see how your alternative approach to management of the pandemic would work. The hospitals would be overwhelmed.
    Co-morbidities were not included so to be more sympathetic to the endangered population as a whole. Promoting a narrative that did not include who was dying was a ultimately more virtue signaling and gaslighting. It was easier to scare people in paralysis and fear rather than using logic and a sensible approach until we have a real solution which did not need such dramtic technological medical interventions for the greatest part of the population. As abhorrent as it is, our society is sick with obesity, lack of physical activity and poor diet - had much of the effort to get the population healthy with a proper nutritional diet and encouraged physical movement - perhaps this pandemic would have not be so deadly. It was far easier to wait for a for profit vaccine and wreck the social structure of society in an abundance of caution.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 09-20-2022 at 01:46 PM.
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    Co-morbidities were not included so to be more sympathetic to the endangered population as a whole. Promoting a narrative that did not include who was dying was a ultimately more virtue signaling and gaslighting. It was easier to scare people in paralysis and fear rather than using logic and a sensible approach until we have a real solution which did not need such dramtic technological medical interventions for the greatest part of the population. As abhorrent as it is, our society is sick with obesity, lack of physical activity and poor diet - had much of the effort to get the population healthy with a proper nutritional diet and encouraged physical movement - perhaps this pandemic would have not be so deadly. It was far easier to wait for a for profit vaccine and wreck the social structure of society in an abundance of caution.
    "wreck the social structure of society"? is that what happened, ted.

    but, yeah. it is easier to buy time for a vaccine with some temporary social interruptions than to get 100 million americans onto a ted hoppe-approved diet and exercise program, all hale and hearty in time to save them from a virus already in circulation. nevermind that plenty of healthy people were killed or otherwise harmed. our own friend rob, one of the leanest and meanest i know, lost his sense of smell, maybe for life. that is serious damage, that could have happened to any of us, and would have happened to more of us, without the behavioral precautions taken.

    and it wasn't virtue signalling. it was real virtue, putting the needs of everyone--even those worthless overweight, infirm, and elderly!--on an equal footing. we don't know how much worse it would have been had we not (not really) "wrecked our social structure" in an effort to limit the pandemic. but, we do know, it would have been worse.

    so, what do you think could have been done that was significantly different? and what would you call your plan, "get younger and skinnier and healthier or die"?

    cripes man.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    "wreck the social structure of society"? is that what happened, ted.

    but, yeah. it is easier to buy time for a vaccine with some temporary social interruptions than to get 100 million americans onto a ted hoppe-approved diet and exercise program, all hale and hearty in time to save them from a virus already in circulation. nevermind that plenty of healthy people were killed or otherwise harmed. our own friend rob, one of the leanest and meanest i know, lost his sense of smell, maybe for life. that is serious damage, that could have happened to any of us, and would have happened to more of us, without the behavioral precautions taken.

    and it wasn't virtue signalling. it was real virtue, putting the needs of everyone--even those worthless overweight, infirm, and elderly!--on an equal footing. we don't know how much worse it would have been had we not (not really) "wrecked our social structure" in an effort to limit the pandemic. but, we do know, it would have been worse.

    so, what do you think could have been done that was significantly different? and what would you call your plan, "get younger and skinnier and healthier or die"?

    cripes man.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    The vaccine was essentially a miracle. It was the first mRNA-based vaccine to be used in humans. I am amazed that it worked.

    I don't see your point in describing it as a 'for profit' vaccine. The endeavor was a partnership of pharma and government.
    it was also huge commercial venture. Big pharma is certainly not repaying the government for its cash, awards and unprecedented greenlighting of never tired treatments without the usual guardrails.

    No doubt you have loved this as a scientist as an advancement. But as a wholistic approach to proper management of this pandemic where it was a perfect storm of a virus, bad overall health of the most vulnerable and the population at large - you have carefully avoided the elephant in the room consistently throughout and tired to discredit what should have been hand in hand response to this true awareness. As contributing factors - your avoidance and disregard of the whole picture and waiting for technology to solve what is essentially is a significant drop in quality food diets and lack of physical exercise crisis demonstrates once again the lack of real synergy between proper addressed health concerns and modern medicine.
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    L.W.'s post nicely lays out why there was no elephant in the room to consistently avoid and discredit.

    I am not avoiding or disregarding anything, and I have not relied on technology to solve anything - I just can't see what management plan you would have proposed which would not have resulted in overwhelmed hospitals and a far greater number of deaths.
    Even a blind scientist can see being healthier physically and having a quality diet was part of the solution. Rather than admit there is a point i have, you side step it.

    FWIW - The death rate unfortunate for many was overblown for political effect. From Fall 2019 to Fall 2020, nearly most who died were previously infirmed or suffered from advanced age. We may not ever see the end the damage with all the mass worry and hysteria caused. Most here went relatively unscathed, many are better than before in wealth and luxury. Folks like you actually made money on your money and even took government payouts that caused inflation, crushed minimum wage jobs on main street and further alienated greater segments of our society.

    As Lee points out - any other choice would seem heartless. Nevertheless - It is over and people are more selfish than ever and the richies got richer.
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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    Even a blind scientist can see being healthier physically and having a quality diet was part of the solution. Rather than admit there is a point i have, you side step it.

    FWIW - The death rate unfortunate for many was overblown for political effect. From Fall 2019 to Fall 2020, nearly most who died were previously infirmed or suffered from advanced age. We may not ever see the end the damage with all the mass worry and hysteria caused. Most here went relatively unscathed, many are better than before in wealth and luxury. Folks like you actually made money on your money and even took government payouts that caused inflation, crushed minimum wage jobs on main street and further alienated greater segments of our society.

    As Lee points out - any other choice would seem heartless. Nevertheless - It is over and people are more selfish than ever and the richies got richer.
    I personally know a 48 year old marathon runner with no body fat, eat super healthy, no co-morbidity who DIED from covid before any vaccine was available.

    Anyone remember Boadway actor Nick Cordero who died at 41 after long battle with COVID-19
    After more than three months of battling COVID-19, Broadway actor Nick Cordero died on Sunday in Los Angeles at the age of 41. Our Frank DiLella takes a look back at the performer’s career.
    From his Tony nominated turn as a tap dancing gangster in “Bullets Over Broadway” to his most recent appearance as Sonny in “A Bronx Tale,” Nick Cordero was a Broadway favorite.
    His wife, performer Amanda Kloots, announced his passing on social media on Sunday, saying, “God has another angel in heaven now.”



    On the other side is this site https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/
    Last edited by Joe (SoCal); 09-20-2022 at 06:28 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    I personally know a 48 year old marathon runner with no body fat, eat super healthy, no co-morbidity who DIED from covid before any vaccine was available.
    then you know me, who eschews all that healthy **** in favor of sloth, gluttony, and the miracles of modern chemistry who has had covid and came through unscathed

    ted knows me too

    i'm not an anti vaxxer though, that's the dse
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Itís over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    then you know me, who eschews all that healthy **** in favor of sloth, gluttony, and the miracles of modern chemistry who has had covid and came through unscathed

    ted knows me too

    i'm not an anti vaxxer though, that's the dse
    So you know Renee is a probably the healthiest, non smoker, exercises daily, eats a perfect diet and drinks a gallon of water a day. She got Covid in Italy. The reason was we were idiots and let our guard off with all the people from every where on earth with no masks on.

    IMG_4743.jpg
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    i remember when george jung was a reasonable conservative
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Itís over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    i remember when george jung was a reasonable conservative
    I remember when you were a reasonable conservative

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    I am not side stepping anything. I asked you twice what your Covid pandemic management plan would have been for the country. I don't think that you have outlined anything for me to sidestep. Until then, as far as I can see your plan would have overwhelmed the hospitals, more than they were, and would have contributed to the death rate.
    you can see my solutions above.

    suppose the most vulnerable were lost early and the effective treatments were game changing - when would you suggest we address the why and the how with a plan to make folks healthier with the basics in quality health maintenance. Clearly there is more easy money made with junk food diets, inactive blobs mined for data and injections to fight the effects of exposure to other potentially sick humans.
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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    Quote Originally Posted by twodot View Post
    On the one hand you appear to be arguing for a laissez faire Libertarian approach to the pandemic - just let the fat old people die and let the healthy people continue with a normal life - but then you also want profound government intervention to try to turn bloated Americans into healthy skinny Japanese.
    Yeah we should throw up our hands and submit.

    we know can't do either. I have come to terms with it.
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    that sounds very 'socialized' ted
    so you want more govt not less?

    where do you think the political will for such lies?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    I guess. Or we’re just tired of it. This is the chart I look at most often.

    Monkeypox continues it’s 45 degree ascent.

    B293C8A6-18DC-4F7B-A3DB-A69FA2BB1B7F.jpg

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    Default Re: Itís over.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    I guess. Or we’re just tired of it. This is the chart I look at most often.

    Monkeypox continues it’s 45 degree ascent.

    B293C8A6-18DC-4F7B-A3DB-A69FA2BB1B7F.jpg
    yup, that’s a bell curve

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    The insurance companies have the data, and it will be reflected in the annual premiums for health insurance for years to come

    "Excess deaths due to COVID-19 and other causes in 2020 and 2021 led to an overall decline in life expectancy between 2019 and 2021 of 2.7 years for the total population,
    3.1 years for males, and 2.3 years for females (Figure 1)"
    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsrr/vsrr023.pdf

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    The cheapest patient is a dead patient.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    IMG_4703.jpg

    Renee got it after 2 1/2 years. I'm beginning to feel like the last fat kid in a game of dodgeball.

    Guess what It ain't over.
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    IMG_4703.jpg

    Renee got it after 2 1/2 years. I'm beginning to feel like the last fat kid in a game of dodgeball.

    Guess what It ain't over.
    Nope, I have not caught it either (or I did and I was asymptomaticO), despite frequent travel and mingling throughout. I do mask and I am vaxxed and boosted.

    Kevin
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    IMG_4703.jpg

    Renee got it after 2 1/2 years. I'm beginning to feel like the last fat kid in a game of dodgeball.

    Guess what It ain't over.
    Having not caught it yet, you may be valuable to science
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci.

    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question.

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    Default Re: Itís over.

    Our daughter went to Ireland in August and came down with covid case #2 so spent 5 days of a 10 day trip isolating from a pandemic that's over, her boyfriend has just been exposed, I was putting up campaign signs and my partner had a mask on as he was 6 days into his covid case. I'm sure glad that the pandemic is over.

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    Default Re: Itís over.

    It's the long Covid issue that concerns me, not actually getting it any more.
    Gerard>
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  29. #29
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    I'll believe it's over when the wastewater testing says so .

    I understand why it's politically useful to say something else, but it isn't accurate. Whoever says it.
    If I use the word "God," I sure don't mean an old man in the sky who just loves the occasional goat sacrifice. - Anne Lamott

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    Quote Originally Posted by TomF View Post
    I'll believe it's over when the wastewater testing says so .

    I understand why it's politically useful to say something else, but it isn't accurate. Whoever says it.
    Hey I guess Biden doesn’t know $hit.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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    Default Re: Itís over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Hey I guess Biden doesnít know $hit.
    hey, you can't lose, can you.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    It would be useful if people would bother to read the article linked to, and not rely on the (misleading) thread
    title.

    What Biden was claiming is that the 'pandemic' portion of COVID is done. I might argue, but it's arguable that he's right. If he is that doesn't mean there won't be cases, and pockets, and plenty of mopup work. If he's wrong, he runs the risk of pulling a tRump... and encouraging people not to take it seriously enough, thereby extending the duration of the rumpus.
    David G
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  33. #33
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    More...

    HHS Sec: 'The president is correct' that the COVID-19 pandemic is over


    "The president is correct," Becerra told Yahoo Finance Monday.

    "He's made it clear that Americans are still dying in the hundreds every day from COVID, and so we have to stay at this. The vaccines are the most effective way for us to stay protected," Becerra added.

    On CBS's 60 Minutes, Biden said, "The pandemic is over. We still have a problem with COVID. We're still doing a lot of work on it. But the pandemic is over."
    Biden's comments took senior officials by surprise, according to the Washington Post.

    And whether or not public health emergency needs are over is something the administration is still weighing, Becerra said.

    "I think the president was reflecting what so many Americans are thinking and feeling," Becerra said, noting that with effective vaccines, tests, and treatments, the country is on a better path than earlier in the pandemic.

    "I believe the president made it very clear ó COVID is still here. We just have to make sure we're smart," he added.

    https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/h...185022326.html
    David G
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  34. #34
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    Default Re: Itís over.

    Couple we over night'd with last weekend husband is now sick. After our visit host and his son attended a Dooby Bros concert. They both got it.
    Three weekends in a row, Mona and I have rolled the super spreader dice. Going to a trampoline park to watch grand kids was my new level of dumb f**kery un masked. If I am dead next week cancel my subscription.

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    Default Re: Itís over.

    I tested positive for the first time last Friday. I got it somewhere in NC and managed to infect my sick elderly mother before I came home. She tested positive yesterday. I don't know what I'll do with myself if she doesn't make it through this.

    I think back on Trump's inaction/lies at the beginning of the pandemic. I'd like 5 minutes alone with him in a locked room.

    And yes - I DO blame Trump for what this country has been through. I'll stop there.

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