Page 1 of 3 12 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 85

Thread: The American School System!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    654

    Default The American School System!

    IN all it's glory.
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...0fe7dba0d873cf

    This might be an extreme case but what a system.
    As this will have a forever impact on his life, I hope She has to pay restitution for life.
    I doubt She will do any jail time and will end up paying the government a small fine.
    Last edited by ShorelineJohn; 09-15-2022 at 04:22 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    44,041

    Default Re: The American School System!

    I don't know the final outcome, but at Montclair High a student was throwing grapes. A teacher took the grapes. The kids' parents sued. Teacher was facing suspension.

    Why would anyone want to be a teacher today?
    "Banning books and not guns seems backwards. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Location
    Armada, MI, USA
    Posts
    570

    Default Re: The American School System!

    This looks to me like a one-off incident and indicates nothing about the "American school system".
    Our schools have plenty of serious and chronic problems, but I don't think teachers paying kids to beat up other kids is among them.
    Still, it was a damn bizarre thing for a teacher to do.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Farmington, Oregon
    Posts
    20,941

    Default Re: The American School System!

    it seemed like a good idea at the time

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    the hills
    Posts
    67,972

    Default Re: The American School System!

    That’s not right.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 1999
    Location
    Armada, MI, USA
    Posts
    570

    Default Re: The American School System!

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    it seemed like a good idea at the time

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Saint Helena Island, SC
    Posts
    12,598

    Default Re: The American School System!

    The idea of compulsory K-12 education is flawed. Not every child will benefit from it, and many that won’t only impair the learning of others. Basic skills should be taught to the young, but at some point some sort of filtering should be instituted to weed out those that interfere and diminish the process.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    40,152

    Default Re: The American School System!

    ^ It is hard for me to imagine a worse idea that ending formal education before grade 12. Isn't our society plagued by a sufficient number of ignorant people who can't think for themselves, can't recognize real news from propaganda, and who don't know even a smattering of true history?
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    654

    Default Re: The American School System!

    I really would contend that this is, while extreme is what our school system does! The people that are there to help, guide, and to teach are the problem for that group of individuals that do not think, or process information the same way as others.
    This kid will have issues with this for a very long time. Making an example out of people is even part of our legal system, even though we all should be the same under the law we learn very early we NOT!
    This is right up there with sexual abuse of a child! He will never understand why!

    And yes I had a second grade teacher that took away my desk for the whole year because I couldn't keep it clean, sat in the corner with my pile of books while the kids laughed, but they sure had clean desks. It went down hill from there, followed me the entire time I was in K-12.
    One would say that was 50 years ago but this just happen so not much has changed in 50 years.
    When I started in High School my home room teacher had just started teaching, was very big on victims of bullies are the cause problem as he would tell me everyday. When my daughter was 16 she started dating a guy that went to school, not only was that teacher still there He was the Dean of the school, setting policy for the whole school. Matter of fact the guy she was dating was on his "goon squad", didn't take long before She dumped him. I had to finally call the police on him because he would show up outside the house crying and screaming at 2AM, A real emotionally stable type person.
    There might be a good reason why there are so many angry Americans!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Valley of the Sun
    Posts
    119,318

    Default Re: The American School System!

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    but at some point some sort of filtering should be instituted to weed out those that interfere and diminish the process.
    the criminal justice system for instance
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    654

    Default Re: The American School System!

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    The idea of compulsory K-12 education is flawed. Not every child will benefit from it, and many that won’t only impair the learning of others. Basic skills should be taught to the young, but at some point some sort of filtering should be instituted to weed out those that interfere and diminish the process.
    So what exactly do you believe this child did to deserve this? Why should he leave school because others don't fit in with him? You know maybe all these really smart kids really don't need school and they should be the ones kicked out!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Adirondack Mts, New York State
    Posts
    1,606

    Default Re: The American School System!

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    ^ It is hard for me to imagine a worse idea that ending formal education before grade 12. Isn't our society plagued by a sufficient number of ignorant people who can't think for themselves, can't recognize real news from propaganda, and who don't know even a smattering of true history?
    Yes there are, and grade 7-12 didn't help them a bit. Most should go to a good trade/tech school

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Farmington, Oregon
    Posts
    20,941

    Default Re: The American School System!

    and then they should work for the rest of their lives paying taxes so the smarter kids can go to college for free

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Rubicon,WI
    Posts
    1,435

    Default Re: The American School System!

    Sumthin to that, but the disrupters' should pay for their sins for the rest of their lives.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Wrocław, Poland
    Posts
    13,499

    Default Re: The American School System!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Bartlett View Post
    This looks to me like a one-off incident and indicates nothing about the "American school system".
    Thank you for stating what should have been obvious to the OP, but apparently wasn't.

    Tom
    Ponoszenie konsekwencji!

    www.tompamperin.com

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Wrocław, Poland
    Posts
    13,499

    Default Re: The American School System!

    Quote Originally Posted by ShorelineJohn View Post
    I really would contend that this is, while extreme is what our school system does! The people that are there to help, guide, and to teach are the problem for that group of individuals that do not think, or process information the same way as others.
    There's no polite way to express just how wrong this statement is.

    Tom
    Ponoszenie konsekwencji!

    www.tompamperin.com

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    654

    Default Re: The American School System!

    Authorities are still investigating the ordeal, and the Caddo Parish Sheriff’s Office notes that “more arrests are pending.”

    Believe what you want!
    And no there is no polite way to say for some "Our Schools SUCK!"
    The problem is in her mind, She must have believed this was the right thing to do! The teacher that took away my desk
    believed it was the right thing to do!
    Dean Douglas believes the victims of bullies bring it on themselves and should be the ones punished.
    I guess it's all just fake news.
    Just try to remember this in 5-8 years when there is a mass shooting at
    North Caddo Elementary Middle School.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Wow-Ming
    Posts
    20,917

    Default Re: The American School System!

    I figured out early on that I was smarter than quite a few of my teachers. But that didn't make me dislike them. Rather, it let me see them as human rather than exalted whatevers.

    12 grades of public school taught me patience: to sit still, shut up, wait my turn, get in line, fill in the blanks. That sort of thing gets you farther in society than projecting brilliance and originality. It also taught me a lot about how most people, and the organizations we create, tend to work. Popularity. Rumors. Backstabbing.

    The only teacher I hated was a balding, greasy-haired sadist who taught senior AP math. I have an acute instinct for math, that allows me to leap to correct solutions without trudging through every step. But, where some teachers might recognize an innate ability, he kept failing me on tests for not showing my work in detail, with the implication that I must be cheating.

    He also carried on vendettas against other bright students, and was generally horrible, which led to the whole class walking out on the final exam. Blaming his students didn't work. He got fired.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    East Quogue,NY
    Posts
    25,767

    Default

    Just had a discussion with my high school sophomore daughter. Explained to her that learning to manage her time and focus and balancing the varying needs and deadlines of chemistry, algebra, ceramics, AP History, etc, because as an adult she will need to balance a variety of work projects involving different people simultaneously.

    That juggling-prioritizing-time-management-thing is at least as important as the underlying subject matter.

    Kevin


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    44,041

    Default Re: The American School System!

    My kids went through our system. OLdest daughter got into academically talented classes and went on to get a doctorate.


    Youngest daughter hand an auditory perception problem, which her teachers discovered. Once discovered, she got the necessary help. WE, the parents had no idea and didn't even know what that was.

    Good teachers are great.
    "Banning books and not guns seems backwards. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    71,362

    Default Re: The American School System!

    "Why would anyone want to be a teacher today?"

    Despite parental prompting I was never going back to school as a teacher. Didn't like the other kids much when I was one myself. Another good decision.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Wrocław, Poland
    Posts
    13,499

    Default Re: The American School System!

    Quote Originally Posted by ShorelineJohn View Post
    Believe what you want!
    And no there is no polite way to say for some "Our Schools SUCK!"
    The problem is in her mind, She must have believed this was the right thing to do! The teacher that took away my desk
    believed it was the right thing to do!
    Dean Douglas believes the victims of bullies bring it on themselves and should be the ones punished.
    I guess it's all just fake news.
    Just try to remember this in 5-8 years when there is a mass shooting at
    North Caddo Elementary Middle School.
    OK, let me explain my perspective in a bit more detail.

    My main argument is that schools are a reflection of our culture and society. To blame schools for a society that fetishizes violence, promotes ever-increasing levels of inequality with regard to income, wealth, education, and opportunity, is misguided in the extreme. The schools make a handy target, nothing more. But when you blame the schools, you are to a great degree ignoring the real causes.

    There's also the issue that we are talking about the behavior of a substitute teacher. I'm guessing now more than ever, school are forced to rely on minimally qualified (or completely unqualified) people to step in as substitute teachers. People without a professional background, experience, or any training in how to manage a class.

    None of this excuses what the sub did in this case. Not at all.

    You can blame the schools for this incident, for hiring that sub, I guess. But what is their alternative? Where is the nationwide backing for better pay and incentives and support for schools and teachers and staff that would provide a qualified pool of teachers and subs?

    When you ask someone to do a task that is incredibly difficult, and you limit their available resources, it is foolish to expect good results.

    To further clarify: when I said that there is no polite way to express how wrong your post was, I was specifically referring to blanket statements like this:

    The people that are there to help, guide, and to teach are the problem for that group of individuals that do not think, or process information the same way as others.
    There are roughly 3 million teachers in the U.S. public schools. They are not "the problem."

    Many of them are great, inspiring. Some of them would like to be, and try their damnedest, but are hampered by circumstances outside their control. (For example, research is clear that poverty is the #1 cause of "achievement gaps" in learning--what is the U.S. doing to address that issue so that schools can be more successful?). Most of them are overworked and underpaid.

    The U.S. is getting the public school system they have paid for. It's pretty clear what works in schools. It's pretty clear what teachers need to help their students learn. The U.S. has simply decided not to do it.

    So, blaming the schools? Nope. Makes absolutely no sense.

    That's not the same as saying "our schools are great." It's saying "The U.S. has chosen not to provide what it takes to have great schools, so don't be surprised that there are problems."

    Tom
    Ponoszenie konsekwencji!

    www.tompamperin.com

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Central Wisconsin
    Posts
    411

    Default Re: The American School System!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    I figured out early on that I was smarter than quite a few of my teachers. But that didn't make me dislike them. Rather, it let me see them as human rather than exalted whatevers.

    12 grades of public school taught me patience: to sit still, shut up, wait my turn, get in line, fill in the blanks. That sort of thing gets you farther in society than projecting brilliance and originality. It also taught me a lot about how most people, and the organizations we create, tend to work. Popularity. Rumors. Backstabbing.

    The only teacher I hated was a balding, greasy-haired sadist who taught senior AP math. I have an acute instinct for math, that allows me to leap to correct solutions without trudging through every step. But, where some teachers might recognize an innate ability, he kept failing me on tests for not showing my work in detail, with the implication that I must be cheating.

    He also carried on vendettas against other bright students, and was generally horrible, which led to the whole class walking out on the final exam. Blaming his students didn't work. He got fired.
    With a ratio of 30 or so students to 1 teacher per class a smart teacher will quickly realize that a significant number of students are smarter than him/herself. That's just a given of probability. Nonetheless, a good teacher can succeed in imparting their greater knowledge, education, experience, and wisdom. To your credit, it sounds like you figured that out, as well, and treated teachers pretty well.
    Last edited by Bflat; 09-16-2022 at 08:46 AM.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Saint Helena Island, SC
    Posts
    12,598

    Default Re: The American School System!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Woodward View Post
    Yes there are, and grade 7-12 didn't help them a bit. Most should go to a good trade/tech school
    Exactly. The one size fits all approach isn’t working. Many schools have become nothing more than state funded day care.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Saint Helena Island, SC
    Posts
    12,598

    Default Re: The American School System!

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    the criminal justice system for instance
    For some, unfortunately yes.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Saint Helena Island, SC
    Posts
    12,598

    Default Re: The American School System!

    Several personal accounts here have successful outcomes because of good, attentive parenting. That is what is lacking in many cases of the disruptive, failing students. It is not however the states job to make up for bad or non existent parenting. It can provide an effective, safe learning environment for the kids that want to learn.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Valley of the Sun
    Posts
    119,318

    Default Re: The American School System!

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    It is not however the states job to make up for bad or non existent parenting.
    is it not, though, really?

    let us use the most extreme example, if a parent is completely absent, who is then responsible for the child?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Farmington, Oregon
    Posts
    20,941

    Default Re: The American School System!

    the state steps in, but they keep track of expenses. if they ever find the parents on a payroll, the state will garnish their wages. hello, freeway underpass.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Farmington, Oregon
    Posts
    20,941

    Default Re: The American School System!

    the social safety net is no longer there to catch you when you fall. it is thrown over so they can stick a fork in you.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    N. Fal on Cape Cod
    Posts
    18,450

    Default Re: The American School System!

    In a very real sense it is the society's responsibility to pick up if the parents fail, even just on a mercenary basis. First, society benefits from self-sufficient citizens who can use well developed skills to contribute to the economy. Second, society benefits from self-sufficient citizens who don't depend on society for their support.

    Education is cheaper than prison.

    Of course, here we're discussing a society which was founded by people who willingly imprisoned and exploited a substantial portion of its population.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
    And other things, too.
    http://www.landsedgephoto.com

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    62,270

    Default Re: The American School System!

    About the OP - schools certainly have problems, but one incident involving one pathological substitute gym teacher, now facing serious criminal charges, is definitely NOT any kind of rational basis to criticize 'the American school system' - or to say much of anything about it, in fact.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 09-16-2022 at 11:07 AM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NorCAL
    Posts
    20,561

    Default Re: The American School System!

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    the criminal justice system for instance

    fixed.
    Without friends none of this is possible.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NorCAL
    Posts
    20,561

    Default Re: The American School System!

    Let talk about the problem with Waldo.

    Without friends none of this is possible.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    9,315

    Default Re: The American School System!

    Often not discussed when talking about public schools is the roll of private institutions siphoning off funds from public education.

    private institutions can and do turn down applicants. Public schools aren’t afforded this opportunity.

    this leaves public education with a more expensive pool of students and extra hurtles to good outcomes which critics of public education just love to selectively use.
    __________________________________________________ ________________________

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    44,041

    Default Re: The American School System!

    I am, again, reminded on my child's third grade teacher explaining how "Thorough and Efficient", created by Reagan, hindered the ability of teachers to teach.
    "Banning books and not guns seems backwards. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •