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Thread: Trafficing in Illegal Immigrants

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Trafficing in Illegal Immigrants

    Hannity undermines DeSantis:

    https://youtu.be/KPves5tJjAM

    Oops!
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

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  2. #72
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    Default Re: Trafficing in Illegal Immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Florida? Those asylum seekers came from Texas. Florida just used them. And how much did this stunt cost? I'm guessing a lot more than $12,500, which could have been spent to help people who were actually in Florida.

    And just where does Boston come into the picture? The Venezuelans were transported from Texas to Martha's Vineyard.
    Donors raised $45K to help the Vineyard people help these guests over the last week. If the Vineyard had housing it would have been quite happy to keep some of these folks. There's a terrible shortage of housing all over the Cape and Islands for working people, and plenty of work, even beyond the menial sort.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

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  3. #73
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    Default Re: Trafficing in Illegal Immigrants

    who says Death Sentence is not going to run for president? He was in kansas and Wisconsin crowing about what he did.

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/18/polit...nts/index.html
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

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  4. #74
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    Default Re: Trafficing in Illegal Immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    I wonder how many of the Uber wealthy homeowners in Martha’s Vineyard employ illegal immigrants to maintain their yards, paint their white picket fences and clean their McMansions.
    Asylum applicants are permitted to wait for adjudication of their cases in the US. While waiting they are not illegal.

    The backlog on case resolution is, apparently, 4 years.

    Can you tell the difference between a landscaper who is awaiting adjudication, and one who has overstayed their leave?

    I doubt it.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
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  5. #75
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    Default Re: Trafficing in Illegal Immigrants

    Facts are kind of useful here. Check the citations in the next post.



    DeSantis apparently dispatched the migrants with a videographer to take images of them arriving, entirely unexpectedly, on the upscale island, presumably in an attempt to present the image that Democratic areas can’t handle immigrants (in fact, more than 12% of the island’s 17,000 full-time residents were born in foreign countries, and 22% of the residents are non-white). But the residents of the island greeted the migrants; found beds, food, and medical care; and worked with authorities to move them back to the mainland where there are support services and housing.

    There are two big stories behind DeSantis’s move.

    First is that the Republicans are on the ropes over the Supreme Court’s June 2022 Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health decision and the capture of the party by its MAGA wing. That slide into radical extremism means the party is contracting, but it is not clear at all that base voters will show up in the midterms without former president Trump on the ballot. Rallying voters with threats of “aliens” swamping traditional society is a common tactic of right-wing politicians; it was the central argument that brought Hungary’s Viktor Orbán into his current authoritarian position. Republican governors Greg Abbott of Texas and Doug Ducey of Arizona have been bussing migrants to Washington—about 10,000 of them—saying they would bring the immigrant issue to the doorsteps of Democrats. Now DeSantis is in on the trick. Immigrants are nothing new to northern cities, of course. The U.S. is in a period of high immigration. Currently, 15% of the inhabitants of Washington, D.C., are foreign born, only slightly less than the 16.8% of the population of Texas that is foreign born. About 29% of the inhabitants of Boston come from outside U.S. borders, as do 36% of the inhabitants of New York City.

    In the lead-up to the midterms, Republicans have tried to distract from their unpopular stands on abortion, contraception, marriage equality, and so on, by hammering on the idea that the Democrats have created “open borders”; that criminal immigrants are bringing in huge amounts of drugs, especially fentanyl; and that Biden is secretly flying undocumented immigrants into Republican states in the middle of the night. Beginning in July, they began to insist that the country is being “invaded.” In fact, the border is not “open.” Fences, surveillance technology, and about 20,000 Border Patrol agents make the border more secure than it has ever been. That means apprehensions of undocumented migrants are up, with U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) recording more than 3 million encounters at the border since January 2021. Those high numbers reflect people stopped from coming in and are artificially inflated because many who are stopped try again. CBP estimates that about 27% of those stopped at the border are repeat apprehensions.

    Although much fentanyl is being stopped, some is indeed coming in, but through official ports of entry in large trucks or cars, not on individual migrants, who statistically are far less likely than native-born Americans to commit crimes. And the federal government is not secretly flying anyone anywhere; U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) sometimes moves migrants between detention centers, and CBP transfers unaccompanied children to the Department of Health and Human Services. These flights have been going on for years.

    The second story is the history of American immigration, which is far more complicated and interesting than the current news stories suggest.

    Mexican immigration is nothing new; our western agribusinesses were built on migrant labor of Mexicans, Japanese, and poor whites, among others, in the late 19th century. From the time the current border was set in 1848 until the 1930s, people moved back and forth across it without restrictions. But in 1965, Congress passed the Hart-Celler Act, putting a cap on Latin American immigration for the first time. The cap was low: just 20,000, although 50,000 workers were coming annually.

    After 1965, workers continued to come as they always had, and to be employed, as always. But now their presence was illegal. In 1986, Congress tried to fix the problem by offering amnesty to 2.3 million Mexicans who were living in the U.S. and by cracking down on employers who hired undocumented workers. But rather than ending the problem of undocumented workers, the new law exacerbated it by beginning the process of militarizing the border. Until then, migrants into the United States had been offset by an equal number leaving at the end of the season. Once the border became heavily guarded, Mexican migrants refused to take the chance of leaving.

    Then, in the 1990s, the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) flooded Mexico with U.S. corn and drove Mexican farmers to find work in the American Southeast. This immigration boom had passed by 2007, when the number of undocumented Mexicans living in the United States began to decline as more Mexicans left the U.S. than came.

    In 2013 a large majority of Americans, both Republicans and Democrats, backed a bill to fix the disconnect caused by the 1965 law. In 2013, with a bipartisan vote of 68–32, the Senate passed a bill giving a 13-year pathway to citizenship for millions of undocumented immigrants, who would have to meet security requirements. It required employers to verify that they were hiring legal workers. It created a visa system for unskilled workers, and it got rid of preference for family migration in favor of skill-based migration. And it strengthened border security. It would have passed the House, but House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) refused to bring it up for a vote, aware that the issue of immigration would rally Republican voters.

    But most of the immigrants coming over the southern border now are not Mexican migrants.

    Beginning around 2014, people began to flee “warlike levels of violence” in El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras, coming to the U.S. for asylum. This is legal, although most come illegally, taking their chances with smugglers who collect fees to protect migrants on the Mexican side of the border and to get them into the U.S. The Obama administration tried to deter migrants by expanding the detention of families, and it made significant investments in Central America in an attempt to stabilize the region by expanding economic development and promoting security. The Trump administration emphasized deterrence. It cut off support to Central American countries, worked with authoritarians to try to stop regional gangs, drastically limited the number of refugees the U.S. would admit, and—infamously—deliberately separated children from their parents to deter would-be asylum seekers. The number of migrants to the U.S. dropped throughout Trump’s years in office. The Trump administration gutted immigration staff and facilities and then cut off immigration during the pandemic under Title 42, a public health order.

    The Biden administration coincided with the easing of the pandemic and catastrophic storms in Central America, leading migration to jump, but the administration continued to turn migrants back under Title 42 and resumed working with Central American countries to stem the violence that is sparking people to flee. (In nine months, the Trump administration expelled more than 400,000 people under Title 42; in Biden’s first 18 months, his administration expelled 1.7 million people.)

    The Biden administration sought to end Title 42 last May, but a lawsuit by Republican states led a federal judge in Louisiana to keep the policy in place. People arriving at the U.S. border have the right to apply for asylum even under Title 42.


    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
    And other things, too.
    http://www.landsedgephoto.com

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Trafficing in Illegal Immigrants

    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
    And other things, too.
    http://www.landsedgephoto.com

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Trafficing in Illegal Immigrants

    Posted by Canoez
    "In 2018, Massachusetts sent $9B more to the federal government than it received. Florida, on the other hand was the third highest out of 50 states for taking money from the Federal government. Florida received $50B more than they contributed. Please tell me why Massachusetts should be sending more to Florida?"

    Considering some States are hell bent on being politically autonomous at least, secessionist at worst, I wonder too.

  8. #78
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    Default Re: Trafficing in Illegal Immigrants

    So - these people had legally crossed the border & applied for asylum. That's exactly how it's supposed to be done & has been for many years. A group of people hired by Desantis approach them on the street, tell them lies & get them onto an airplane where they are flown 1500 miles from where their hearings will be held.

    How is that not kidnapping? No different than a dirty old man offering a little girl candy to get her into a car in my mind.

    Think what 600K could do to help migrants! Speaking of 600K - someone(s) made a whole lot of money on that deal - buddies of Desantis?

    Those who support this should be willing to get kidnapped next time they fly to a foreign country.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Trafficing in Illegal Immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Oh, you need to read further:
    You are correct. I stand corrected

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Trafficing in Illegal Immigrants

    Well, it's working out that some of these folks had asylum hearing requirments back in San Antonio, or in random other places, and they're stuck on Otis on Cape Cod in Massachusetts and can't get to their hearings.

    What's the result for them?

    Deportation for failure to appear.

    Abbott and DeSantis are laughing all the way to the bank.

    Except that DeSantis appears to have been using Covid funding from the Feds to pull off this prank. And my Senator and some of the Representatives from my state are asking the Feds to see what can be done about that.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
    And other things, too.
    http://www.landsedgephoto.com

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Trafficing in Illegal Immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    Well, it's working out that some of these folks had asylum hearing requirments back in San Antonio, or in random other places, and they're stuck on Otis on Cape Cod in Massachusetts and can't get to their hearings.

    What's the result for them?

    Deportation for failure to appear.

    Abbott and DeSantis are laughing all the way to the bank.

    Except that DeSantis appears to have been using Covid funding from the Feds to pull off this prank. And my Senator and some of the Representatives from my state are asking the Feds to see what can be done about that.
    There are a whole bunch of questions that appear to be unanswered about this story.

    What was the actual immigration status of the individuals who were moved by DeSantis et al? There may be legal implications of moving migrants over state lines.
    There appears to have been someone from DHS or claiming to be from DHS that worked with these migrants in Texas helping to prepare some sort of paperwork. Was a Federal employee actually involved in this event? What was the paperwork?
    Was there fraud on the part of DeSantis, et al? The migrants claimed that were told they were heading to New York and Boston - and not brought to either place.
    Considering that immigration actions that don't fall to the states (There are very limited actions that do - none appear to apply here.) falls to the Federal Government, what are the legal repercussions?
    Is the use of Federal funding and/or the interest on that funding limited such that it cannot be used for certain purposes?

    Lastly, I would be hopeful that the migrant's cases would be transferred to another jurisdiction rather than resulting in deportation. I'd think the government has some wiggle room here.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  12. #82
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    Default Re: Trafficing in Illegal Immigrants

    Vile hypocritical idiots.

    Without migrants willing to work nasty, low-wage jobs, the economies of Texas, Florida, and the other former slave states would collapse.

    Consider this request by Ol' Massa Trump (and the warning about "unexpected visitors.")

    Time to welcome new batch of foreign workers to Trump's Mar-a-Lago club/crime scene

    Frank Cerabino, Palm Beach Post
    September 12, 2022

    The Mar-a-Lago Club in Palm Beach has filed a request with the U.S. Department of Labor to hire 91 temporary foreign workers next month to staff the club as housekeepers, cooks and servers during the upcoming season.

    The club was raided last month by the FBI as part of the government’s continuing efforts to recover scores of highly classified documents that were improperly taken by former President Donald Trump and haphazardly stored in the club in violation of multiple federal laws.

    ***
    Bienvenido, Bienvenue, Willkomen, Witaj, Selamat datang and Добро пожаловать (Dobro pozhalovat):

    We are so glad to have you foreign workers join us this year at Mar-a-Lago to serve and clean up after the people who value putting America first.

    We are looking forward to a busy season with many guests at the club, including possibly some who are not club members.

    So, it will be important for everybody on the property, right down to the cleaning staff, to know how to respond to the arrival of unexpected visitors.


    https://news.yahoo.com/time-welcome-...090027029.html

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Trafficing in Illegal Immigrants

    Wonder if any of the new foreign workers have second jobs with the FSB and will be "cleaning" in the store room by the pool?
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  14. #84
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    Default Re: Trafficing in Illegal Immigrants

    And now comes the first lawsuit. Not from Martha's Vineyard or the State of Massachusetts, but from three of the people DeSantis so casually used as political theatre.

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...is-1234596742/
    "If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito"

    -Dalai Lama

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Trafficing in Illegal Immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Haberland View Post
    And now comes the first lawsuit. Not from Martha's Vineyard or the State of Massachusetts, but from three of the people DeSantis so casually used as political theatre.

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politic...is-1234596742/
    https://www.aol.com/migrants-flown-m...233519161.html
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Trafficing in Illegal Immigrants

    Meantime... this. No idea whether it will go anywhere, but still applauding --


    Texas sheriff puts Martha’s Vineyard migrants on path to apply for special visa by declaring them crime victims

    A Texas sheriff has certified that dozens of migrants who were flown from Texas to Martha’s Vineyard, Massachusetts, last month under a new program by Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis were crime victims, boosting their eligibility for a special visa.

    Bexar County Sheriff Javier Salazar said Thursday he had filed certification forms that immigration lawyers say can be used to obtain visas reserved for crime victims or people who witness certain crimes.

    “Based upon the claims of migrants being transported from Bexar County under false pretenses, we are investigating this case as possible Unlawful Restraint," Salazar said in a statement. "We have submitted documentation through the federal system to ensure the migrants’ availability as witnesses during the investigation."


    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/imm...sa-d-rcna52190
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Trafficing in Illegal Immigrants

    Let's not forget this little gem. DeSantis is under Federal Investigation for misuse of Covid Relief funds: https://www.usnews.com/news/national...-massachusetts
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  18. #88
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    Default Re: Trafficing in Illegal Immigrants

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Meantime... this. No idea whether it will go anywhere, but still applauding --


    Texas sheriff puts Martha’s Vineyard migrants on path to apply for special visa by declaring them crime victims

    A Texas sheriff has certified that dozens of migrants who were flown from Texas to Martha’s Vineyard, Massachusetts, last month under a new program by Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis were crime victims, boosting their eligibility for a special visa.

    Bexar County Sheriff Javier Salazar said Thursday he had filed certification forms that immigration lawyers say can be used to obtain visas reserved for crime victims or people who witness certain crimes.

    “Based upon the claims of migrants being transported from Bexar County under false pretenses, we are investigating this case as possible Unlawful Restraint," Salazar said in a statement. "We have submitted documentation through the federal system to ensure the migrants’ availability as witnesses during the investigation."


    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/imm...sa-d-rcna52190
    Gives one a sliver of hope.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Trafficing in Illegal Immigrants

    we are investigating this case as possible Unlawful Restraint," Salazar said
    ooh, isn't that pretty much a felony everywhere? plus, interstate?

    that poor DeSantis. /sarcasm

    kidding of course.. the u.s. only hurts little people. meaning the pilots etc might want to lawyer up.

    I'm sure DeSantis will fund their legal fees from the what, $12 mil?

    yep, you guessed it..

    /sarcasm

    but here I'm serious.. people talking of using the money to help immigrants/people seriously do not understand capitalism.

    seriously.

    no '/sarcasm'.

    DeSantis, tho.. he understands. and that's why (the likes of) he succeeds.

    wasf.

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