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Thread: Boeing 777 9X

  1. #1
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    Default Boeing 777 9X


    Saw it in Victorville, CA today. I believe these are still in test. First time I have seen the folding wing tips.




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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    What's the orange thing under the tail?
    "Visionary" is he who in every egg sees a carbonara.

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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    Quote Originally Posted by Figment View Post
    What's the orange thing under the tail?
    Most likely it’s a tail skid for the VMU (velocity minimum unstick) testing. Drag the a$$ end on the ground as you accelerate and see how slow it’ll takeoff.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    What's with the folding wingtips? I'd think that it would be counter-productive for vortex reduction to have those interruptions at the root.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    What's with the folding wingtips? I'd think that it would be counter-productive for vortex reduction to have those interruptions at the root.
    To be able to park it at more gates. Wingspan is so big it would be restricted other wise .
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    We studied the design of the 777 when I was in school. The amount of weight saved in some design choices still hurts my head. Something that weighs some 300 tons shouldn’t be able to fly, according to monkey brain, even though I understand the physics involved.

    Those wing tips would give me one other thing to obsess over as we flew. “Gee, I hope those things don’t fold up suddenly…” Hahaha. Normally I just panic about noises and consider duty cycles and what not.

    Irrational? Yes. Tell that to my monkey brain.

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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    We studied the design of the 777 when I was in school. The amount of weight saved in some design choices still hurts my head. Something that weighs tons and tons shouldn’t be able to fly, according to monkey brain, even though I understand the physics involved.

    Those wing tips would give me one other thing to obsess over as we flew. “Gee, I hope those things don’t fold up suddenly…” Hahaha. Normally I just panic about noises and consider duty cycles and what not.

    Irrational? Yes. Tell that to my monkey brain.
    Meh. Might change your fuel burn...
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    Meh. Might change your fuel burn...
    My monkey brain does not get this?

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    Default Boeing 777 9X

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    To be able to park it at more gates. Wingspan is so big it would be restricted other wise .

    Yep! Not sure what the wingspan is, but it is a big plane. Would be limited in a lot of places without folding.


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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    That’s some efficient transportation in passenger mpg.

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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    Carrier-based fighter planes have had folding wings for a loooong time, just saying ! ! !




    Rick
    Charter Member - - Professional Procrastinators Association of America - - putting things off since 1965 " I'll get around to it tomorrow, .... maybe "

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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    Something that weighs some 300 tons shouldn’t be able to fly, according to monkey brain.
    Yes, it is a wonder, and I can't get my head around it either. Gazillions of passenger miles flown with amazingly low failure rate. Of course the rare failures, whatever the cause, invariably have the same ending.

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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    My monkey brain does not get this?
    The folding wingtips have a little upsweep - like those little winglets at the tips of the wing are for efficiency, reduction of wingtip vorticies. If they weren't in the proper position in flight, it would likely effect your fuel economy (burn rate) and little else other than the warnings in the cockpit.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    The folding wingtips have a little upsweep - like those little winglets at the tips of the wing are for efficiency, reduction of wingtip vorticies. If they weren't in the proper position in flight, it would likely effect your fuel economy (burn rate) and little else other than the warnings in the cockpit.
    Ah ha! I don’t fly often, so I always have mad anxiety. The last time I flew before the boat show was with the Honor Flight program. I got quite a lot of reassurance and teasing from a plane load of Vietnam vets, which included a lot of former bomber and tanker pilots and crew.
    “Uh oh!”
    ”What?!”
    ”I’m out of Pepsi. Hahaha”

    When I was leaving NY, Ledger was kind enough to remind me I would be fine in case of a bird strike, because the pilot would just land in the river.

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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    Quote Originally Posted by hawkeye54 View Post
    Carrier-based fighter planes have had folding wings for a loooong time, just saying ! ! !




    Rick
    And that orange thingie on the tail is a tail hook for when that plane wants to land on a carrier. Thought that was obvious.

    The thing that strikes me is the massive size of those engines.

    Rated for 426 passengers, all stuffed into one of the world's largest flying sardine cans.
    Last edited by Rich Jones; 09-13-2022 at 02:14 PM.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
    Skiing is the next best thing to having wings.

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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    A question for the experts,would not the more common winglets reduce the span,increase the efficiency and lose some complication?

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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    Not an expert, but Occam’s Razor tells me that if fixed winglets would do the job Boeing’s designers would have used them.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    As those engines get bigger, I wonder if they will ever move the wings to the top for clearance.

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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    As those engines get bigger, I wonder if they will ever move the wings to the top for clearance.
    put 'em back on the tail where they belong

    1504187125-gettyimages-590683695.jpg
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    It’s about gates. You can’t make a profit if there’s no place to park.

    I was on the 777 for my last 6 years at the airline. Superb airplane. Extremely well designed and built. Vastly preferable to the 340/330 which I flew for the preceding 5 years, from both my Captain’s perspective and the bean-counters’.

    The brilliant thing that the Boeing engineers of the 1990s did was make the wing spars and the landing gear stronger than required for the initial orders (of the 200s). They did this because of the in-house corporate knowledge of the 737 story/limitations, and the awareness of the DC-8’s similar strength which had out-competed the 707 in every economic way.
    Not a CFO’s decision. Not BOD’s decision. It was an aircraft design team’s decision based on a common-sense understanding of how airframe growth benefits airlines and aircraft makers.
    The -300s, which make the real money, have a 12.5ft bigger wing than early 777s. It isn’t big enough, but it can be made to work.
    The decision to make the wing even bigger, via folding, is a tribute to the original design team’s understanding of long term aircraft economics. The structure was there.
    But if you can’t park it easily you can’t make a profit. The economic failure of the 380 is evidence of this.
    Thus the folding wingtips, an elementary design challenge, are happening now.

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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    put 'em back on the tail where they belong

    1504187125-gettyimages-590683695.jpg
    We always used to call those, "Yard Darts".

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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    put 'em back on the tail where they belong

    1504187125-gettyimages-590683695.jpg
    Always liked the DC 9 family. I could have sworn I saw a Delta MD88 on approach to BWI the other day. I thought they stopped flying them.
    You must be the change you wish to see in the world."
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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    Amazing trend.

    I wonder what happened between around 1987 and 1999? Bit of a setback.

    B9025167-9655-4C9D-B310-6982FCD34882.jpg

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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Adams View Post
    Always liked the DC 9 family. I could have sworn I saw a Delta MD88 on approach to BWI the other day. I thought they stopped flying them.
    Probably a 717. The 88’s are done, as are the 90’s
    Tom

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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    Quote Originally Posted by amish rob View Post
    We studied the design of the 777 when I was in school. The amount of weight saved in some design choices still hurts my head. Something that weighs some 300 tons shouldn’t be able to fly, according to monkey brain, even though I understand the physics involved.

    Those wing tips would give me one other thing to obsess over as we flew. “Gee, I hope those things don’t fold up suddenly…” Hahaha. Normally I just panic about noises and consider duty cycles and what not.

    Irrational? Yes. Tell that to my monkey brain.
    angle your hand out a car window at highway speeds and it will lift your whole arm. Now imagine a half acre of wing area, shaped for lift, going 3 times as fast.

    that’s how 300 tons gets in the air.
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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    Quote Originally Posted by CK 17 View Post
    angle your hand out a car window at highway speeds and it will lift your whole arm. Now imagine a half acre of wing area, shaped for lift, going 3 times as fast.

    that’s how 300 tons gets in the air.
    Yes. I wrote that I understand the physics. Also that we studied this very airframe in school.

    Still, my brain will never get over all that weight flying in the same way it won’t accept that the same weight can be made to float.

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    Default Re: Boeing 777 9X

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    I wonder what happened between around 1987 and 1999? Bit of a setback.
    Maybe expansion of commercial aviation as the 'third world' developed, more planes flying in less-wealthy countries? It would be interesting to see where the accidents were.

    Pretty impressive, one way or the other. I think your chances of dying are probably greater driving to the airport than on the flight.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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