A Deck Dilemma

[pcford]

and there's always covered moorage.

The important thing is that there is a huge amount of energy transmitted to a deck in full sun...get your deck out of the sun!

[ron ll]

We redid a lot of workboat decks with ply and glass. It is the honest solution, if you wanted to save money you could likely do gaco flex and that’s a viable option. A lot of this depends on what you want out of the work. Do you want the fast and easy way, the driest solution, the traditional, or a combination of the above? They all get different answers, non are wrong.

Nicholas

I’ve done all the other decks and cabin tops on Snoose with ply embedded in thickened epoxy, and epoxied glass cloth. I know that system best and it definitely creates dry decks. That’s probably what I’ll do on the foredeck. And it occurs to me that if I absolutely can’t stand the look, I could still add ‘fake’ planks over it, but I doubt I would. I guess I was hoping someone had a magic easy solution to keeping it bright. Probably no such thing, though I was tempted by Sam Devlin’s suggestion of Coelan clear finish that he used on the decks of Josephine.

[ron ll]

and there's always covered moorage.

The important thing is that there is a huge amount of energy transmitted to a deck in full sun...get your deck out of the sun!

Although that might help keep the deck tighter, there are many reasons that won’t happen. Plus the leaking on the bunk is an issue while cruising, not when she’s in her slip.

I did notice that Devlin’s Josephine is in covered moorage, which may explain why he’s had good luck with the Coelan finish.

[cstevens]

Although that might help keep the deck tighter, there are many reasons that won’t happen. Plus the leaking on the bunk is an issue while cruising, not when she’s in her slip.

I did notice that Devlin’s Josephine is in covered moorage, which may explain why he’s had good luck with the Coelan finish.

Maybe? But I believe that the new laid fir deck in Skookum Maru's cockpit is coated with Coelan and she's kept under cover but the planks are opening up just the same. Fortunately there is nothing below the deck other than the water tank and the steering gear. I've been thinking of going to plywood and fiberglass there though, as I can't help but wonder if her original laid cockpit deck is the reason she needed a new horn timber a few years ago.

[ron ll]

So Skookum Maru has a Coelan treated deck? Other than Josephine, I had not heard of anyone else using it. And if she’s still opening up, I’m glad I didn’t try it.

[pcford]

Although that might help keep the deck tighter, there are many reasons that won’t happen. Plus the leaking on the bunk is an issue while cruising, not when she’s in her slip.

It is likely that the deck does not open the minute it is exposed to direct sunlight. You might try it.

[Boatbum]

We redid a lot of workboat decks with ply and glass. It is the honest solution, if you wanted to save money you could likely do gaco flex and that’s a viable option. A lot of this depends on what you want out of the work. Do you want the fast and easy way, the driest solution, the traditional, or a combination of the above? They all get different answers, non are wrong.

Nicholas

All of this is moving the boat further away form her teak deck heritage and salty look. Seems to me the only option is a new laid deck (expensive and hard to find enough similar grained teak) or a TDS Deck. The TDS deck is considered more waterproof as it has no bungs and virtually no seems to leak. The substrate is a waterproof. And it is a lot cheaper.

If you don't care how it looks, just cover it with dynel/epoxy or possibly sunbrella impregnated epoxy. Both will stop the leaking. Be sure to leave a layer between the deck and the covering so they can each move independently of one another or you will get stress cracking

[Pelirrojo]

All of this is moving the boat further away form her teak deck heritage and salty look. Seems to me the only option is a new laid deck (expensive and hard to find enough similar grained teak) or a TDS Deck. The TDS deck is considered more waterproof as it has no bungs and virtually no seems to leak. The substrate is a waterproof. And it is a lot cheaper.

If you don't care how it looks, just cover it with dynel/epoxy or possibly sunbrella impregnated epoxy. Both will stop the leaking. Be sure to leave a layer between the deck and the covering so they can each move independently of one another or you will get stress cracking

Snoose is a west coast troller, She never had teak decks, adding teak decks is the opposite of her heritage. A properly done fiberglass or dynel deck honors the practicality of her workboat heritage, in fact many of the working trollers have switched over to glass over ply decks for exactly the reasons outlaid above.

[Woxbox]

Before you rip out the good looking deck, where's the harm in reeving out the traditional caulking and replacing it with a flexible polyurethane type caulking? Sikaflex, for example. Give it a year or two to see if it holds through the summer. If it doesn't, then throw in the towel and go to plywood. It's worth a try, no?

[Peerie Maa]

Before you rip out the good looking deck, where's the harm in reeving out the traditional caulking and replacing it with a flexible polyurethane type caulking? Sikaflex, for example. Give it a year or two to see if it holds through the summer. If it doesn't, then throw in the towel and go to plywood. It's worth a try, no?

May be widening the top caulking seam a bit, so that there is more rubber in there to be able to come and go.

[ron ll]

Goodbye pretty plank deck. 😕

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[cstevens]

Hello winter cruising with a dry bunk!

[ron ll]

Hello winter cruising with a dry bunk!

Yes indeed! I keep finding more things that are going to be a whole lot simpler when it doesn’t rain inside the boat.

[ron ll]

The fun part. (Heck, it’s all fun.)

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[ron ll]

Yikes. It’s going away as I’m dry fitting more pieces.

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[Pelirrojo]

Looks great. A refinement we developed doing a ton of these was to fasten the plywood down with narrow crown staples in a pneumatic stapler. They pull great and it is way easier than needing to try to use weights or temporary screws with washers. I have always laid the ply in epoxy not having to rush to use screws makes a big difference. I also like to add half round or coved trim bedded in sikaflex around the edges of the bulwarks after glassing to help cover the glass edge. A few months after I did Auklets deck, John told me that he though it had a small leak. Turned out the overlay deck was so tight he was getting condensation forward for the first time in 20 years of ownership.

Nicholas

Nicholas.

[Boatbum]

I might wear a pre-distressed leather bomber jacket bought off the rack at Macy's (well, no - I wouldn't, but never mind) but I would never say that it is anything other than an imitation of the real thing. Just because it looks the same and it's made of the same material, doesn't mean it's "real". Again, I don't mean any slight to teak-over-plywood decks in their proper place. But that place is not on a real work boat. My two cents. Other people may reasonably disagree. And I'll admit to being a work boat snob here. I am not ashamed.

I bet TDS would make a deck out of fir as well and then it would look a proper work boat

[ron ll]

Thanks Nicholas. I’ve done the last two decks with the pneumatic staples and it has worked great. I usually go over the ply with a rubber mallet before stapling to help insure it is well bedded into the thickened epoxy. I like your idea of using a cove piece at the bulwarks. I was going to cove with epoxy fairing compound but I think your bedded cove might make any future repairs to bulwarks or sheer planks easier. Do you glass up on the bulwarks or stop the cloth at the flat surface?

[Pelirrojo]

Depending on what size cove is going to look right, I usually carry my glass go up a 1/4, of 1/2 on the bulwark, I find its easiest to use tape to mask of the area above so that I can lay my glass a little past where I want the actual boarder to end. Then once the glass is mostly cured I razor knife off the excess. I also typically try wet out the cloth with fairing compound at the same time so that I don't have to do a whole second fill after washing the blush off. I find doing the decks sorta satisfying because you know you're adding years of life to the boat.

Nicholas

[pcford]

Bruce calls it strip planking. If the seams are routered out to a bit wider than the widest gap, the splines glued in, should work OK.

Nonsense. Ever look at a boat with splined hull? I guess not. Unless the boats environment is carefully controlled, the same forces with be at work. Also this deck is far too thin to function as a laid/properly caulked deck.

[ron ll]

Far too thin? This deck is 2” net thick x 2-12” net Shaw Island fir. How thick is a properly laid deck?

[pcford]

Far too thin? This deck is 2” net thick x 2-12” net Shaw Island fir. How thick is a properly laid deck?

Sorry. I was referring to image #16 of Whizbang's deck. Looks like it is 1" nominal. Far too thin. It will never be tight.

[ron ll]

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[Geftb]

Hey Ron, a shame to lose the ol’ deck look but I get it.
are you going to reef the old seams and epoxy them or just go over the top as is?

steve.

[chas]

Splined hull, perhaps not such a controlled environment. Seems to work well, although it’s only been 75 years so far! / Jim
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PS. Would that work on a traditional laid fir deck in the PNW climate, not be my first choice. I might lay that ply over the fir decking shown with sub-floor adhesive to allow for the subsequent movement of the original decking during periods of high humidity.

[pcford]

Splined hull, perhaps not such a controlled environment. Seems to work well, although it’s only been 75 years so far! / Jim

is it 3/4 " material?

[ron ll]

Hey Ron, a shame to lose the ol’ deck look but I get it.
are you going to reef the old seams and epoxy them or just go over the top as is?

steve.

Over the top as is, after sanding to bare wood.

[chas]

Pat, planking is 1-1/8” red cedar, on a 38’ boat. What does 3/4” have to to do with this discussion of Ron’s deck repair?

[pcford]

Pat, planking is 1-1/8” red cedar, on a 38’ boat. What does 3/4” have to to do with this discussion of Ron’s deck repair?

It has nothing to do with Ron's boat. For the final time, I was referring to Whizbang's photo in post #16. I hope this clears up your misunderstanding.

[chas]

If it works for you Pat we’re good, but I fail to see what relationship Bruce’s photos in post 16 have to do with a splined hull, which you appear to be doing in your post 55, in your response to Nick. I’m good with that misunderstanding.

[Lemsteraak]

Maybe? But I believe that the new laid fir deck in Skookum Maru's cockpit is coated with Coelan and she's kept under cover but the planks are opening up just the same. Fortunately there is nothing below the deck other than the water tank and the steering gear. I've been thinking of going to plywood and fiberglass there though, as I can't help but wonder if her original laid cockpit deck is the reason she needed a new horn timber a few years ago.

I've played with Coelan a fair bit and have heard that it can be used as a coating on laid decks. It could work as it is insanely flexible, think saran wrap flexible and will attach to just about anything. I believe it will span the gaps well, but like any varnish, you need to put on a lot of coats. If it lets water through, the insanely flexible coating is breaking which means the deck structure need attention as it is allowing the planks to move excessively.

I've seen doorskins put down on laid decks of Nordic Folkboats to stiffen the structure for racing. It was a stop gap measure but it did work especially if was bedded down on a coating of Dolphinite. Folkboat laid decks were thin and originally covered over with felt and painted canvas. The plywood would still leak around the cabin and deck joint so I never was a big fan.

[ron ll]

Might be too late to ask this. In rereading Nicholas’ post above about using narrow crown staples, I noticed he mentioned ‘they are easy to pull’. Do they need to be pulled? I’m using galvanized staples and the crowns set below the surface of the ply. They are buried in epoxy and under glass cloth. Have I created a future disaster by leaving them in?

[lukes]

I read "they pull great" to mean they do a good job of pulling the ply to the deck, as in "pull up" very well. I'm guessing your boat is full of galvanized fasteners, I can't imagine a few staples in the deck will be an issue. Maybe Nick can clear up his meaning.

I'm curious about the "shaw island fir" of the decks. How do you know where the tress came from, and is there a reason to believe that Shaw's firs were better than any other?

Glad to see Snoose being looked after. She's a fine boat.

[cstevens]

I've played with Coelan a fair bit and have heard that it can be used as a coating on laid decks. It could work as it is insanely flexible, think saran wrap flexible and will attach to just about anything. I believe it will span the gaps well, but like any varnish, you need to put on a lot of coats. If it lets water through, the insanely flexible coating is breaking which means the deck structure need attention as it is allowing the planks to move excessively.

I've seen doorskins put down on laid decks of Nordic Folkboats to stiffen the structure for racing. It was a stop gap measure but it did work especially if was bedded down on a coating of Dolphinite. Folkboat laid decks were thin and originally covered over with felt and painted canvas. The plywood would still leak around the cabin and deck joint so I never was a big fan.

One correction to my earlier post. I was mistaken about Coelan on Skookum Maru. I’m honestly not sure what I was thinking when I posted. Some sort of mash up between Cetol and Coelan or something. Please carry on.

[cstevens]

Ron, I’m pretty sure that deck will outlive us both, galvanized staples and all. Maybe we need to plan a rainy November South Sound cruise to test it out.