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Thread: A Deck Dilemma

  1. #1
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    Default A Deck Dilemma

    Snooseís foredeck leaks. The original 2Ē fir planks just come and go too much with seasonal changes. A few years ago I had it professionally recaulked, didnít help much. At one point I sanded it down and flooded it with linseed oil on the advice of someone who said planks that old need oil replaced. Didnít help. This time of year I can look up from below and see daylight through the seams. By Spring, itíll be tight again. But the summer and fall rains and rough water over the bow, make the foícísle uninhabitable. And thatís where the main v berth is. Sam Devlin suggested a German made clear goop that he used on Josephine that he said solved 90% of the problem. Not sure 90% is enough.

    Iíve plywood, glass and epoxied all the other decks and cabin tops and they are now gloriously dry below. But Iím having a hard time bringing myself to give up the looks of the bright finished foredeck. To me that is one of her best looking features. But if I plywood/glass and paint it, life would be sooo much more pleasant while cruising. So unless someone has some better idea, I guess I have to do it.

    Just finished the plywood/glass on the trunk cabin top, trim not yet reinstalled in this photo.
    4A2BA127-993E-4F67-8C9C-8A0F793EC043.jpg

    Really hate to have to paint this.
    738BCD67-2181-4053-AF4B-AEB71A553BE6.jpg

  2. #2
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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    There is a lot to be said for dry bunks.
    What's not on a boat costs nothing, weighs nothing, and can't break

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    I love the original deck too but my bet is that if you cover it and paint it, the first time that it rains and you don't have to deal with tarps and a wet bunk you will forget all about the look of the planked deck. As Bud McIntosh said, laid decks are for people who can afford to hire a hand to sluice down the deck with salt water every morning (or something like that).
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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Bruce will be along soon to tell you to rout out the seams and glue in splines.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    I agree with the above comments on covering the deck. I am however curious who did your recent corking? Not all caulkers are equal and all the good ones I know in Seattle would guarantee their work.

    Nicholas

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelirrojo View Post
    I agree with the above comments on covering the deck. I am however curious who did your recent corking? Not all caulkers are equal and all the good ones I know in Seattle would guarantee their work.

    Nicholas
    Likely part of the problem, but it was a few years ago. Both of fhe Tims and Mark were all busy, I got a recommendation from John Thomas for this guy, and now I don't recall his name. And at this point, not sure having a caulked plank deck over the main bunk is a good idea, especially when it can't be sluiced regularly. My dock neighbor, Barnacle, has all painted decks as do many other fine old boats. I just have to get used to the idea I guess.

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    If it was a recommendation from John it was likely Milton. He does excellent work. Sounds like it’s probably worth doing the overlay.

    Nicholas

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Pelirrojo View Post
    If it was a recommendation from John it was likely Milton. He does excellent work. Sounds like it’s probably worth doing the overlay.

    Nicholas
    Yes, it was Milton. He said the seams were pretty wide, he had to use oakum plus cotton in some spots. I liked his work, wasn’t his fault. Yes, think it needs the overlay.

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    We all love beautiful boats, but they have to be useful too. The only varnish above deck on my ketch is the wheel, which I cover when not in use. My decks are glass/ply and don't leak. When I sailed on the South Shore, a boat neighbor had a clam boat with a laid deck. He swabbed it every day to keep it tight.

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Bruce will be along soon to tell you to rout out the seams and glue in splines.
    This would be a first.
    I do not believe I have ever recommended this time wasting practice
    I do not believe I have ever even used it
    the decks of woodwind are white
    they do not leak
    now letís rip some rotten oak out !!!!

  11. #11
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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    This would be a first.
    I do not believe I have ever recommended this time wasting practice
    I do not believe I have ever even use it
    I think Nick was "taking the mick", as they say over there. (Do they actually say that? Or does that just happen in Guy Ritchie movies?)
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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    I think Nick was "taking the mick", as they say over there. (Do they actually say that? Or does that just happen in Guy Ritchie movies?)
    I think Nick likes hunting for Bruce , like that new movie “Prey”

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    I think Nick likes hunting for Bruce , like that new movie “Prey”
    Perhaps, perhaps. We all have our small amusements. Trolling traditionalists, for example. Seems like I know someone who does that occasionally?
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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    How about laying a teak decking system over the existing deck or better still, remove original deck and put down an underlayment of marine plywood before the TDS. It will maintain the salty appearance while being much more watertight.

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    How about laying a teak decking system over the existing deck or better still, remove original deck and put down an underlayment of marine plywood before the TDS. It will maintain the salty appearance while being much more watertight.
    Oh, please please don't make Snoose "salty" with TDS or some other fake laid deck! She's so much better as an honest work boat. No slight intended for those things on faux work boats - tug yachts and so on - but not for the real thing.
    - Chris

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    This would be a first.
    I do not believe I have ever recommended this time wasting practice
    I do not believe I have ever even used it
    the decks of woodwind are white
    they do not leak
    now let’s rip some rotten oak out !!!!
    Did you not do something similar when repairing/rebuilding a yacht?
    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    So, we are beginning to see more and more decay. Over beers I expressed my disdain for cotton caulked decks and the damage they cause a boat. More good boats have been wrecked by rain water getting in than rocks, stormsv and rum combined.

    Ray wanted to put ply and fg over them, I said I think I have a better idea I'd like to try.
    Woodwinds decks are strip planked. I haver never seen anyone else do this. I guess mot people believe the crap they read in boat building books about strip plank being slow to build,difficult to repair... luckily I never read one of them .
    The decks were crappy built from the git go, wide boards only an inch thick, cotton caulked and payed with pitch and some tube goo ,but good flavor of wood, mostly silver bali. But everywhere there was rain wet cotton there was decay.

    I ripped some "Spanish Cedar" into 0ne and two inch strips and traced them, one by one , onto the crap seams ,then cut the seams out with a skilsaw with a banged up blade ,hitting many fastenings (good riddance).

    Right away they begin to look better with the trad crap cut away.
    Yes, it uses a lotta epoxy, but that is a good thing. I've long said that a little epoxy is a bad thing,you want success?? use a lot.


    This saw was on it's last legs, it died soon after, the damn cotton getting shredded went inside and melted the fan...
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    I think Nick was "taking the mick", as they say over there. (Do they actually say that? Or does that just happen in Guy Ritchie movies?)
    That is the polite version. I was semi serious.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Uh oh, Nick has the receipts!
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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    That is the polite version. I was semi serious.
    Ah yes. And it's true that no character in a Guy Ritchie movie would ever stoop to using the politer phrase. However I'll avoid the other one here for fear of retribution from the gods of the forum!
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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Not sure I'd agree that what was installed were splines. When I think of splines, they are more like what Gypsie used to spline his carvel hull prior to sheathing; thin little strips.
    Not sure what to call what Bruce did, maybe intermediate planking?

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by willin woodworks View Post
    Not sure I'd agree that what was installed were splines. When I think of splines, they are more like what Gypsie used to spline his carvel hull prior to sheathing; thin little strips.
    Not sure what to call what Bruce did, maybe intermediate planking?
    Bruce called it a strip-planked deck, which seems right to me. He did note that he'd never seen it done before but I guess the proof is in the result. Woodwind is still sailing at least. Not sure what she has for a deck right now. Maybe Bruce can share an update on how it went if Nick promises to be nice about it? I'd be curious to know for myself.
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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by willin woodworks View Post
    Not sure I'd agree that what was installed were splines. When I think of splines, they are more like what Gypsie used to spline his carvel hull prior to sheathing; thin little strips.
    Not sure what to call what Bruce did, maybe intermediate planking?
    Bruce calls it strip planking. If the seams are routered out to a bit wider than the widest gap, the splines glued in, should work OK.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Bruce called it a strip-planked deck, which seems right to me. He did note that he'd never seen it done before but I guess the proof is in the result. Woodwind is still sailing at least. Not sure what she has for a deck right now. Maybe Bruce can share an update on how it went if Nick promises to be nice about it? I'd be curious to know for myself.
    Was I being nasty? Sorry if that was the impression.
    Providing that the finished strip planked deck was adequately fastened down (Bruce did say that he hit several original fasteners) there is no reason for it not to work. It works on hulls, after all.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Oh, please please don't make Snoose "salty" with TDS or some other fake laid deck! She's so much better as an honest work boat. No slight intended for those things on faux work boats - tug yachts and so on - but not for the real thing.
    No fear Chris.

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    Oh, please please don't make Snoose "salty" with TDS or some other fake laid deck! She's so much better as an honest work boat. No slight intended for those things on faux work boats - tug yachts and so on - but not for the real thing.
    TDS is not a fake teak. It is real teak (3/8 thick) that has been laminated onto a Formica-like substrate. The one advantage is the it has no bung holes or seams that can leak. Except for the absence of bungs it looks and functions just like a laid deck.

    Granted she is not actually a laid deck, but book matched teak is tough to find and expensive. TDS is far more practical. And certainly better than covering and painting it.

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Teak is just wrong for a boat like Snoose in my view
    What's not on a boat costs nothing, weighs nothing, and can't break

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Boat cover?
    Just a suggestion but lots of boats have them.
    Last edited by pcford; 09-09-2022 at 12:47 PM.

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    TDS is not a fake teak. It is real teak (3/8 thick) that has been laminated onto a Formica-like substrate. The one advantage is the it has no bung holes or seams that can leak. Except for the absence of bungs it looks and functions just like a laid deck.

    Granted she is not actually a laid deck, but book matched teak is tough to find and expensive. TDS is far more practical. And certainly better than covering and painting it.
    I might wear a pre-distressed leather bomber jacket bought off the rack at Macy's (well, no - I wouldn't, but never mind) but I would never say that it is anything other than an imitation of the real thing. Just because it looks the same and it's made of the same material, doesn't mean it's "real". Again, I don't mean any slight to teak-over-plywood decks in their proper place. But that place is not on a real work boat. My two cents. Other people may reasonably disagree. And I'll admit to being a work boat snob here. I am not ashamed.
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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    How about a new plywood deck that's covered with dynel or glass cloth bedded in epoxy. Then over that, bed strips of wood. No caulk. Butt the strips tight with epoxy oozing out. Your choice of wood species, Ron. Teak is very durable but maybe too snooty? Or Doug fir because it's more "workboat" like. Either way you get a dry deck and a durable, non slippery surface that doesn't need to be painted.

    Jeff

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by jpatrick View Post
    How about a new plywood deck that's covered with dynel or glass cloth bedded in epoxy. Then over that, bed strips of wood. No caulk. Butt the strips tight with epoxy oozing out. Your choice of wood species, Ron. Teak is very durable but maybe too snooty? Or Doug fir because it's more "workboat" like. Either way you get a dry deck and a durable, non slippery surface that doesn't need to be painted.

    Jeff
    That would look nice, but one of the reasons I like the existing plank deck is that itís honest. Itís the original planks, warts and all. But as itís no longer practical, I want to just solve the problem as honestly as possible. I think adding more wood on top is a little too yachty for my taste. Form follows function and all that.

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    There may be a reason why no one now builds laid decks.
    What's not on a boat costs nothing, weighs nothing, and can't break

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by ron ll View Post
    That would look nice, but one of the reasons I like the existing plank deck is that it’s honest. It’s the original planks, warts and all. But as it’s no longer practical, I want to just solve the problem as honestly as possible. I think adding more wood on top is a little too yachty for my taste. Form follows function and all that.
    Your taste and aesthetics are your's to make, Ron. I wouldn't ever try to sway you otherwise. My suggestion for the deck was based on a simple notion: If I had a work boat that was still in the act of working... fishing, hauling cargo, whatever... I think I'd want a deck that could both readily take abuse and always be watertight. And it seems to me that a layer of solid wood underfoot will receive a dropped anchor or downrigger ball a lot better than anything else. Snoose presently has only half of this deck because it's not water tight. A sealed deck, covered with wood meets both criteria. Personally, I realize that my suggestion isn't historical, but I don't see any dishonesty. But it's your boat... your decision. Either way, I hope to actually see her someday and maybe take a ride. She sure looks swell.

    Jeff

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    As Bud McIntosh said, laid decks are for people who can afford to hire a hand to sluice down the deck with salt water every morning (or something like that).
    The lawn owners solved that problem long ago, get a pump with a timer automatic and a perforated hose and your deck stays swollen as long as there is power. Of course one has to start the treatment with a tight deck, otherwise you're just keeping the bedding damp.

    If you want a dry deck and keep the original boards and the appearance, that's entirely possible, it's just a lot of work (or money). Carefully remove the deck, saw each plank horizontally down the middle. Reinstall the bottom half using nails away from the screwholes. Smear the entire thing with thickened epoxy, then put a few glas layers over it. If you don't like epoxy you can use hot tar and felt, white lead and canvas, 5200, a layer of thin ply, etc. Now install the second half of the deck planks into your goop of choice, screw trough both layers, bung and pay the seams. All original material, all original appearance inside and out, dry beds below.

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumars View Post
    The lawn owners solved that problem long ago, get a pump with a timer automatic and a perforated hose and your deck stays swollen as long as there is power. Of course one has to start the treatment with a tight deck, otherwise you're just keeping the bedding damp.

    If you want a dry deck and keep the original boards and the appearance, that's entirely possible, it's just a lot of work (or money). Carefully remove the deck, saw each plank horizontally down the middle. Reinstall the bottom half using nails away from the screwholes. Smear the entire thing with thickened epoxy, then put a few glas layers over it. If you don't like epoxy you can use hot tar and felt, white lead and canvas, 5200, a layer of thin ply, etc. Now install the second half of the deck planks into your goop of choice, screw trough both layers, bung and pay the seams. All original material, all original appearance inside and out, dry beds below.
    Now I *definitely* want to see Snoose outfitted with a sprinkler system! I would go sit on C dock at six am just to watch it start up.
    - Chris

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    Default Re: A Deck Dilemma

    We redid a lot of workboat decks with ply and glass. It is the honest solution, if you wanted to save money you could likely do gaco flex and that’s a viable option. A lot of this depends on what you want out of the work. Do you want the fast and easy way, the driest solution, the traditional, or a combination of the above? They all get different answers, non are wrong.

    Nicholas

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