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Thread: rakish

  1. #1
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    Default rakish

    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: rakish

    That just hurts my eyes.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: rakish

    OK - that's about the oddest rig I've ever seen. Pretty hull.

    Hoping for someone to come along & 'splain it to me.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  4. #4
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    Default Re: rakish

    one of the most stunning rigs i've ever seen

    from back when man power and men's lives were cheap
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: rakish

    bse

    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: rakish

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    OK - that's about the oddest rig I've ever seen. Pretty hull.

    Hoping for someone to come along & 'splain it to me.
    Standing lugs, with room for two topsails on fore and main mast. A Bisquine from Normandy. She is from Granville, there is another from Cancale in Brittany. They dredged for oysters that were relaid to grow on, hence the powerful rig.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  7. #7
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    Default Re: rakish

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    bse

    Chasse-marée, a fish carrier and market boat.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  8. #8
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    Default Re: rakish

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Standing lugs, with room for two topsails on fore and main mast. A Bisquine from Normandy. She is from Granville, there is another from Cancale in Brittany. They dredged for oysters that were relaid to grow on, hence the powerful rig.
    Do you know why they employed such radically different mast rakes?
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  9. #9
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    Default Re: rakish

    getting clean air for the sails without unbalancing the helm?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: rakish

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    getting clean air for the sails without unbalancing the helm?
    Certainly makes sense - even if it does look weird
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  11. #11
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    Default Re: rakish

    I'm not convinced a standing lug does any better with the mast to weather. Admittedly it looks better but -
    my boat rigged that way pointed higher with the sail against the mast. It took a while for me to admit it, but a long board (an hour) over the same ground on the same afternoon with the sail set both ways convinced me

  12. #12
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    Default Re: rakish

    I just hate that OP rig aesthetically.
    Gerard>
    Albuquerque, NM

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    Default Re: rakish

    I saw the Cancalaise in Douarnenez in 1988 and I thought she was the most beautiful boat in the festival. I think she was a replica of the bisquine La Perle and I happened to have a copy of Model Shipwright with a article and plans. As a sailmaker later I made many sails for small luggers from Iain Oughtred and Francois Vivier plans and I like them too. For them whose taste is offended I recommend Bolgers '103 Small Boat Rigs', for an explanation or the video 'Luggers at play' on Youtube.
    Frank
    www.oarandsail.nl

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    Default Re: rakish

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    A stunning hull form. Power and grace in masterful balance.

    The rig is handled by better sailors than I...

    Imagine all three reefs in both lowers, trying to work off the Norman coast in an onshore blow. The aspect ratio is so bad, I'd be a little surprised if you survived. I wonder if a trysail was carried for that situation.
    Last edited by J.Madison; 08-31-2022 at 05:55 AM.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: rakish

    Quote Originally Posted by FF View Post
    I saw the Cancalaise in Douarnenez in 1988 and I thought she was the most beautiful boat in the festival. I think she was a replica of the bisquine La Perle and I happened to have a copy of Model Shipwright with a article and plans. As a sailmaker later I made many sails for small luggers from Iain Oughtred and Francois Vivier plans and I like them too. For them whose taste is offended I recommend Bolgers '103 Small Boat Rigs', for an explanation or the video 'Luggers at play' on Youtube.
    Frank
    www.oarandsail.nl
    Very well written, and the draftsmanship is superb.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    A stunning hull form. Power and grace in masterful balance.

    The rig is handled by better sailors than I...

    Imagine all three reefs in both lowers, trying to work off the Norman coast in an onshore blow. The aspect ratio is so bad, I'd be a little surprised if you survived. I wonder if a trysail was carried for that situation.
    They carried a crew of 5 to 7, needed to work the dredges, so they would have had enough hands for reducing sail.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  16. #16
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    Default Re: rakish

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    I'm not convinced a standing lug does any better with the mast to weather. Admittedly it looks better but -
    my boat rigged that way pointed higher with the sail against the mast. It took a while for me to admit it, but a long board (an hour) over the same ground on the same afternoon with the sail set both ways convinced me
    We came also to the conclusion that we went better to windward with the sail on the wrong side and a very experienced client thinks its because the sail twists better.
    Frank

  17. #17
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    Default Re: rakish

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Certainly makes sense - even if it does look weird
    Yep, really weird
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  18. #18
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    Default Re: rakish

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Yep, really weird
    Thanks for your explanations Nick - appreciated. I had just not seen rigs with such radically different rakes before & it takes a bit of getting used to after a lifetime of seeing masts that are pretty much parallel.
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  19. #19
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    Default Re: rakish

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    I'm not convinced a standing lug does any better with the mast to weather. Admittedly it looks better but -
    my boat rigged that way pointed higher with the sail against the mast. It took a while for me to admit it, but a long board (an hour) over the same ground on the same afternoon with the sail set both ways convinced me
    Yep, there have been studies of fly wings. They are pleated for strength, but still work as foils.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  20. #20
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    Default Re: rakish

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Thanks for your explanations Nick - appreciated. I had just not seen rigs with such radically different rakes before & it takes a bit of getting used to after a lifetime of seeing masts that are pretty much parallel.
    Lots of luggers mast rake varied.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  21. #21
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    Default Re: rakish

    When you are more accustomed to this, the lugger rakes are differenter...

    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  22. #22
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    Default Re: rakish

    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: rakish

    why the 'odd' rake?

    because that's the way it was always done, and because it looks good

    https://www.woodenboat.com/whiskey_plank/why-mast-rake
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: rakish

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    When you are more accustomed to this, the lugger rakes are differenter...

    Could never understand the extreme rake on those.

    We had coasting schooners all round our shores.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  25. #25
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    Default Re: rakish

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Could never understand the extreme rake on those.
    helped to tension the rig

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    We had coasting schooners all round our shores.
    yup, slow ones
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: rakish

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    Could never understand the extreme rake on those.

    ...
    I'll admit to picking the most extreme example I could think of: Baltimore Clippers. That drawing was of the original Pride of Baltimore. They were some very fast boats.

    I could've picked a schooner that won some sort of race the US had with England...

    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  27. #27
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    Default Re: rakish

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    helped to tension the rig
    How does that tension the rig?
    Serious question.

    yup, slow ones
    Yep, sea gong lorries, rather than engaged in illegal activities.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  28. #28
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    Default Re: rakish

    #22: Be still my beating heart.
    Gerard>
    Albuquerque, NM

    Next election, vote against EVERY Republican, for EVERY office, at EVERY level. Be patriotic, save the country.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: rakish

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    #22: Be still my beating heart.
    It's only a water tank.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  30. #30
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    Default Re: rakish

    Nice!
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: rakish

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Madison View Post
    A stunning hull form. Power and grace in masterful balance.

    The rig is handled by better sailors than I...

    Imagine all three reefs in both lowers, trying to work off the Norman coast in an onshore blow. The aspect ratio is so bad, I'd be a little surprised if you survived. I wonder if a trysail was carried for that situation.
    Maybe they left the topsail up and reefed, maintaining luff length.
    Sails look like they are setting nicely.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: rakish

    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: rakish

    I was present at sea for an hours long race between Pride I and a German pilot schooner and although the designs were separated by over 100 years (Wanderbird being the newer design) the Pride held her own out through the Golden Gate, out around the Farallons and back into the bay until abeam of Alcatraz.
    That race was won by superior tactics once back inside San Francisco bay.
    It was an impressive sight, the likes of which I will never see again!

  34. #34
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    Default Re: rakish

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    It was an impressive sight, the likes of which I will never see again!
    would love to see the new columbia being challenged like that someday

    Columbia-under-sail-port-side-cropped-1200x617.jpg

    5e38b533b6ab76e7a35ec94d3e2b653b.jpg

    Columbia.jpg
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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