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Thread: Gun volence and medical trauma

  1. #1
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    Default Gun volence and medical trauma

    Just watched a programme from a big Philadelphia hospital gunshot trauma unit. Horrifying, continuous. 1 in 7 become para or quadrilliplegic. Some from stray bullets. 1 in 16 from domestic violence….. Average cost for treatment, $96,000.
    NRA thinks doctors should not comment and 'stay in their lane'. Doctors say 'their lane' is slippery with blood and guts.

    Sad place is America, I refuse to use "USA" any more because it's a lie.

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Average cost for treatment, $96,000.
    Think of what that does to insurance premiums.

    Dead bodies can't speak, but money talks.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Just watched a programme from a big Philadelphia hospital gunshot trauma unit. Horrifying, continuous. 1 in 7 become para or quadrilliplegic. Some from stray bullets. 1 in 16 from domestic violence….. Average cost for treatment, $96,000.
    NRA thinks doctors should not comment and 'stay in their lane'. Doctors say 'their lane' is slippery with blood and guts.

    Sad place is America, I refuse to use "USA" any more because it's a lie.
    Curious, you are watching a program that is I assume is made in America, about America and criticizing it on a forum that originates out of America. Not much Australian made TV? Kinda like y’all’s auto industry?
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Curious, you are watching a program that is I assume is made in America, about America and criticizing it on a forum that originates out of America. Not much Australian made TV? Kinda like y’all’s auto industry?
    That all you got? Shooting the messenger?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    To live in America these days is to live in constant fear of being shot.

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphie Boy View Post
    To live in America these days is to live in constant fear of being shot.
    BS. Some mornings one of the local sheriffs joins me for coffee. He’s been in the job here for 20 years. Hearing his stories it’s very apparent that if you aren’t involved in the drug trade, robbing a house or having sex with somebody else’s wife ones odds of getting shot are actually quite low.
    I’m more concerned about driving home from the SAV airport late at night and getting hit by a stoned or drunk driver, lot better chance of that happening.
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphie Boy View Post
    To live in America these days is to live in constant fear of being shot.
    That's odd. I don't even live with a limited fear of being shot. In fact I almost never think about it. I do worry a little about break ins and though.

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    BS. Some mornings one of the local sheriffs joins me for coffee. He’s been in the job here for 20 years. Hearing his stories it’s very apparent that if you aren’t involved in the drug trade, robbing a house or having sex with somebody else’s wife ones odds of getting shot are actually quite low.
    I’m more concerned about driving home from the SAV airport late at night and getting hit by a stoned or drunk driver, lot better chance of that happening.
    There is a wiki listing all the shootings involving US police, would you like me to find it for you? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_..._United_States
    That is just the police, not mass murders like Sandy Hook, or people arguing in the mall car park, and so on.
    Those odds are about 23.3 times the risk in the UK from one source, much worse from another.
    The gun homicide rate in England and Wales is about one for every 1 million people, according to the Geneva Declaration of Armed Violence and Development, a multinational organization based in Switzerland.
    In a population of 56 million, that adds up to about 50 to 60 gun killings annually. In the USA, by contrast, there are about 160 times as many gun homicides in a country that is roughly six times larger in population. There were 8,124 gun homicides in 2014, according to the latest FBI figures.
    https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/w...ates/85994716/
    This source gives Firearm-related death rate per 100K population per year USA 12.2, UK 0.23, https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...ths-by-country
    The US is not the worst, 9 Caribbean and South American nations do worse for gun deaths. Something to be proud of.
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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    That's odd. I don't even live with a limited fear of being shot. In fact I almost never think about it. I do worry a little about break ins and though.
    That might be why the average US citizen is so complacent about gun abuse that they accepted Sandy Hook and all of those other crimes without batting an eyelid.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Anyone got any suggestions as to what can be done?

    I'd like to see a fund for gunshot victims, paid via a tax on bullets. I'd like to see cars that won't start sans a valid drivers license.

    I get no traction for any such ideas.
    "Banning books and not guns seems backwards. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Imagine working in the ER when this comes in:

    Shock as 12-year-old allegedly shoots classmate in Oakland school

    A 12-year-old boy was arrested after he allegedly shot and wounded his 13-year-old classmate at a school in Oakland, California.

    The shooting erupted at about 1.30pm on Monday at Madison Park academy in East Oakland. Local police said they were able to quickly detain the alleged shooter while his victim was hospitalized in what is now described as stable condition.

    As news of the shooting spread, the school became surrounded by anxious parents desperately seeking news of their children.

    Oakland’s mayor, Libby Schaaf, expressed relief that the victim was recovering but dismay at the ongoing gun violence battering the city and the US as a whole. “School should be the safest place for our kids,” she wrote on Twitter. “The increased level of gun violence in our country and our city is heartbreaking and unacceptable.”

    Authorities have not said whether the shooting was accidental or intentional. Either way, the case highlighted the exceptionally high rate of death and injury suffered by children in the US as a result of the country’s permissive stance on guns.

    According to the gun control group Everytown, death by firearm is the leading cause of death for children and teens in America. “This is a uniquely American problem,” the group says. “Compared to other high-income countries, American children aged five to 14 are 21 times more likely to be killed with guns.”
    The news story came out an hour ago. Now explain to me why a 12 year old kid has a gun and why the parents aren't locked up?!

    Shock as 12-year-old allegedly shoots classmate in Oakland school (msn.com)
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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    That 13 year old was probably playing around with someone else’s wife…

    Or some other idiotic right wing excuse…


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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Anyone got any suggestions as to what can be done?

    I'd like to see a fund for gunshot victims, paid via a tax on bullets. I'd like to see cars that won't start sans a valid drivers license.

    I get no traction for any such ideas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    That's odd. I don't even live with a limited fear of being shot. In fact I almost never think about it. I do worry a little about break ins and though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    That might be why the average US citizen is so complacent about gun abuse that they accepted Sandy Hook and all of those other crimes without batting an eyelid.
    Depressing ain't it?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Wife had a friend who was in the Las Vegas shooting, with her son. Son and mother both got shot; they survived but will never be the same physically.

    A Family member of mine could hear the gunshots from his house the other night during the Bend Oregon shooting.

    If you’re not scared for yourself or your family members you aren’t paying attention.

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    That might be why the average US citizen is so complacent about gun abuse that they accepted Sandy Hook and all of those other crimes without batting an eyelid.
    It's not that, its that law of averages. There are 17 other risks that are more likely than being shot. These are lifetime risks as well, not my odds as I go for a walk this afternoon. Quite franlkly I'm more afraid of Alzheimer's.




    Screenshot 2022-08-30 145446.jpg

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphie Boy View Post
    Wife had a friend who was in the Las Vegas shooting, with her son. Son and mother both got shot; they survived but will never be the same physically.

    A Family member of mine could hear the gunshots from his house the other night during the Bend Oregon shooting.

    If you’re not scared for yourself or your family members you aren’t paying attention.
    But that is true of anyone that experienced a trauma: I know someone that is hypervigilant of dogs. Everywhere she goes she is on the lookout for them and is terrified if she sees one - even a little puppy. She was severely attacked by a dog several years ago. It has nothing to do with paying attention. It has to do with trauma exposure

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphie Boy View Post

    If you’re not scared for yourself or your family members you aren’t paying attention.
    we should do a 1 in 41 thread

    haven't had such since phillip died and ian got banned
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    It's not that, its that law of averages. There are 17 other risks that are more likely than being shot. These are lifetime risks as well, not my odds as I go for a walk this afternoon. Quite franlkly I'm more afraid of Alzheimer's.




    Screenshot 2022-08-30 145446.jpg
    That is a dumb argument. Practically "whataboutism".
    You can, if you really want to, legislate gun mortality down from 12.2 to 0.23 per 100K of population. Just as you can reduce suicide by cop. Getting rid of guns also reduces successful suicides by a big margin.
    It is not what you personally are afraid of, it is about belonging to a better, safer society for all.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Lightbulb Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Keep calm, persistence beats resistance.

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Posters on these threads love charts and graphs showing rates. That is understandable, because they yield single values that are nice and easy to understand. Unfortunately they are an inappropriate analysis. Percents and rates are not appropriate at the limits of their ranges. If you doubt this, try expressing the inverse.
    Lets say 40,000 people are shot in the US per year, out of 330,000,000 or a risk of 0.00012.

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Quote Originally Posted by David W Pratt View Post
    Posters on these threads love charts and graphs showing rates. That is understandable, because they yield single values that are nice and easy to understand. Unfortunately they are an inappropriate analysis. Percents and rates are not appropriate at the limits of their ranges. If you doubt this, try expressing the inverse.
    Lets say 40,000 people are shot in the US per year, out of 330,000,000 or a risk of 0.00012.
    one in forty one american males will die from a gun shot
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    one in forty one american males will die from a gun shot
    Do you have a source for that?

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    Do you have a source for that?
    its a crazy number ain't it?

    i didn't believe it myself, but 'we' the forum went hammer and tongs on that number for quite some time
    i'll give ian some credit, his research, sources, and math were beyond reproach
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Cool Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    Do you have a source for that?



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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Quote Originally Posted by David W Pratt View Post
    Posters on these threads love charts and graphs showing rates. That is understandable, because they yield single values that are nice and easy to understand. Unfortunately they are an inappropriate analysis. Percents and rates are not appropriate at the limits of their ranges. If you doubt this, try expressing the inverse.
    Lets say 40,000 people are shot in the US per year, out of 330,000,000 or a risk of 0.00012.
    So you agree with the rates that I posted. The US 12.2/100,000, compares with 0.23/100,000 in the UK. Now which is better?
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    #15. Obviously the gun death toll ia acceptable to the poster.
    Is there a number beyond which it is no longer acceptable to the poster?

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    It's not that, its that law of averages. There are 17 other risks that are more likely than being shot. These are lifetime risks as well, not my odds as I go for a walk this afternoon. Quite franlkly I'm more afraid of Alzheimer's.




    Screenshot 2022-08-30 145446.jpg
    What do any of those have to do with getting shot?

    My brother, and a number of others I knew, died from lung cancer from smoking. They chose not to believe that cigarettes could kill them.

    Not sure anyone chooses to get shot.
    "Banning books and not guns seems backwards. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Each death is personal, a tragedy for the family and society.
    A pile of charts and whatabout stats means SFA.
    Last edited by skuthorp; 08-30-2022 at 06:38 PM.

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    That's odd. I don't even live with a limited fear of being shot. In fact I almost never think about it. I do worry a little about break ins and though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    That might be why the average US citizen is so complacent about gun abuse that they accepted Sandy Hook and all of those other crimes without batting an eyelid.
    I am with Boatbum. And probably with most others.

    I don't live a life where someone is going to shoot at someone. And perhaps hit me or my family. But I have compassion for those who live in areas where gun crime is common. I understand some individuals have more concerns than I do despite being in similar situations.

    You might take note that gun control in the UK took passing a single law. That does not seem to be too difficult. In the US it takes passing a Constitutional amendment. That is essentially impossible.
    Life is complex.

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    You wouldn’t be quite so complacent if you lived in an area, say Bend, Oregon -a nice tourist metropolis on the high plateau - and have some nihilistic asshole walk in with an AR-15 and start shooting up Safeway.

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    That's odd. I don't even live with a limited fear of being shot. In fact I almost never think about it. I do worry a little about break ins and though.
    Its not an uncommon reaction for Americans who come to places like Australia where guns effectively don't exist in public spaces - how they feel safer. Even though they never thought about being in immediate danger at home in the US. There's a apart of them always alert to the possibility. The idea that I might be shot anywhere in Australia (except possibly on a farm) is just so wildly unlikely it is utterly out of mind, conscious or subconscious.

    Not doubting that you are being completely honest - but my impression is that you are not representative.

    (Sandy Hook also looks like a nice place where everyone probably knows the postmans name).
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Threads like these piss me off no end.

    I wish I could barf enough, but instead I’ll weep for the callous indifference of privilege.

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    For the past 60 days, the Puget Sound area between Everett in the north and Tacoma in the south there has been at least one intentional shooting every single day.
    ITS CHAOS, BE KIND

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/ed...RTjzwxc_YnSxOr

    zoom in to see another urban problem area

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    Default Re: Gun volence and medical trauma

    Chris Green was a good natured, pleasant young man who got along with everyone. He bought a gun by mail.

    He robbed our substation and put bullets in the heads of 5 people. Four died. Two were friends as well as co-workers.

    Someone, please, justify that.
    "Banning books and not guns seems backwards. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

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