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Thread: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

  1. #1
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    Default “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    I rounded the Allen keyway in one of the 316 stainless grub screws that go where the grease gun zerk goes in the boat’s Maxprop.

    A Maxprop is the Ferrari of feathering propellers and costs more than I ever want to think about.

    I could not find the little box of Easy Outs that I’ve had for years, so I had recourse to the Interthing. They were there in vast profusion at prices from really cheap to reasonable. And then someone was selling a Snap-On set, at an eye watering price. So I looked more closely. The Snap-On set included a set of left hand thread cobalt twist drills. Someone in the Snap-On universe has thought about this.

    I raided the piggy bank and bought it, reasoning that stuffing the bronze casting that the grub screws go into will be even more expensive…
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    While you're waiting for the Snap-On set to arrive, don't forget about using liberal amounts of penetrating oil and heat.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    Indeed I am doing just that!
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    Good choice on the Snap-On set. I have a set I've abused for years and have yet to break one or have it fail to get my fastener out. I think part of the process is the very careful​ drilling of the fastener which relieves the compression loads on the mating parts.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Good choice on the Snap-On set. I have a set I've abused for years and have yet to break one or have it fail to get my fastener out. I think part of the process is the very careful​ drilling of the fastener which relieves the compression loads on the mating parts.
    Thanks, Hugh. Very encouraging.
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    I took some pictures:

    The propeller (17” three blade Maxprop)



    The two grub screws are to blank the tapped 6 metric holes that the zerk fitting goes into. Early Maxprops had to be dismantled for greasing, which was a bit of a bore.

    The propeller looks a bit odd as there is a cone shaped zinc anode that fits on the aft end, which in this case was being replaced.
    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 08-28-2022 at 01:45 PM.
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).



    Closer in.
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    The good grub screw is here. They are £0.50p each.





    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 08-28-2022 at 02:28 PM.
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    I seem to recall filing an oversize alan key with a taper and and knocking it in lightly , cut the right angle off of course. Theres not much of a seat so not a lot of contact to be broken.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    I seem to recall filing an oversize alan key with a taper and and knocking it in lightly , cut the right angle off of course. Theres not much of a seat so not a lot of contact to be broken.
    Neat. Thanks.
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    I would try an upsized Robertson(square drive) or Torx,tapped in.
    Hopefully the stainless won't workharden while you drill it.
    R
    Sleep with one eye open.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    When I was spannering airyplanes, Snap-on used to be the outfit of choice, but their prices limited one to buying things that others didn't supply. Their stud/sheared off bolt extractor was brilliant. One drilled the stub with the supplied drill, then tapped in a hardened splined rod. Then slide on the matching 'nut' and withdrew the offending part.
    Bearing in mind the cost of parts for a/craft. It was cheap.
    Cheep extractors have a habit of breaking off in the work, making the next move far more difficult, likely spark erosion. So grit teeth and buy the best.
    A2

  13. #13
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    An extremely expensive Solent boatyard had replaced the cutless bearing, not an operation that I’m up for, but one that requires tte dis-assembly of the propeller, re- greased the hub and whacked the grub screws in with un-warranted zeal!
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  14. #14
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    The snap on tool has one problem, in the smaller sizes the hardened spline drive can/will break off.
    And are you going to allow SS drill savings into your mechanism?

    (maybe use some grease on the drill bit and clean it (with the chips) repeatedly as you go)

  15. #15
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    The snap on tool has one problem, in the smaller sizes the hardened spline drive can/will break off.
    And are you going to allow SS drill savings into your mechanism?

    (maybe use some grease on the drill bit and clean it (with the chips) repeatedly as you go)
    I’m thinking about that… this operation to remove a £0.50p grub screw has “proceed with caution” ​written all over it!
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    No personal experience with your situation, but found some information.
    Another forum post mentioned your exact predicament.
    "Little grub screws are notorious for expanding when striping the socket in the top this will also lock the screw in there,"
    This was mentioned in a number of places.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=how+...Q8Q-byYbYCA_36
    A final idea was drilling it out with a left-hand drill, but a number of people mentioned wobbling and tearing things up.
    Instead of a drill bit, would a left-hand end mill be better suited?
    https://www.kodiakcuttingtools.com/v...bide-end-mills

  17. #17
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    Before you try anything risky, I'll make a suggestion.
    A month or so ago, you had a thread about having bought a new set of Allen wrenches. On that thread, a guy named MushCreek made a strong recommendation for "Wera Hex Plus" allen wrenches.
    Having been in the stamping die industry since 1972, I can confirm his assertion that they are head-and-shoulders above the competitive brands in their ability to "get the job done".
    I have numerous stories wherein the Wera keys removed screws that had been given up as hopeless by users of ordinary hex keys, saving a ton of time and labor by avoiding an unscheduled trip to the radial drill for drilling the heads of the screws off.
    So far, everyone I know who has used them for a while will no longer use anything else. Give it a try.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    On looking closer I think its been over driven in and mashed the seat, which as I said earlier is of tiny area. I know this because one of mine has no proper seat left and I put the grub screw in very lightly.Not only is the seat just a narrow ring but there isn't much material behind it. For me, there's enough to stop it running in under operation, and the prop speed plus thread resistance stops it unwinding. Not ideal but has worked the last decade and a half.
    If the over size alan head or torqz or end mill tapped gently in doesn't work I think I'd go dremel and cut a slot for an ordinary screwdriver before drilling right through. But I don't own left hand drill bits. I feel one of those will work but disasembly if needed isn't that hard, its been a while since I did it.
    Assembly requires 3 hands or cunning, I might have loose taped the body on or loose zip tied it to get the blades cogged in .
    If you end up doing that then a sheet on the ground and reference marks scribed on the body for the blade positions help, the blades and body are numbered already.
    20220830_090514.jpg
    Misc fun fact from the manual, a 2 degree pitch change equals a 15 % RPM change
    Last edited by John B; 08-29-2022 at 04:24 PM.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    I often use a metric or imperial wrench of the next size up and drive it into the socket with a hammer. It works about half the time.

    Next I grind a "tapered" Allen wrench from the next size up for the same purpose.
    good luck...

    these hammer pretty well!
    (Grind the bitter end dead square (or hollow) to maximize the flank area, get rid of any chamfer that way it will actually broach a new hex)
    0EFF7475-2439-4EDC-A6C4-D95CECF6EB62.jpeg

  20. #20
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    A trick cycling mechanics have taken to using, since the rise of hydraulic disc brakes which are usually fastened with Torx-head machine screws :-

    Find the appropriate size Torx bit that is a tight fit in the hex bold head and tap it in to fit.

    Obviously it wrecks the bolt head, but there's no way you're going to be putting a rounded-off bolt back anyway, right?

    Yes, it's butchery of sorts, but it avoids the need to drill where swarf might not be welcome.
    'When I leave I don't know what I'm hoping to find. When I leave I don't know what I'm leaving behind...'

  21. #21
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    On looking closer I think its been over driven in and mashed the seat, which as I said earlier is of tiny area. I know this because one of mine has no proper seat left and I put the grub screw in very lightly.Not only is the seat just a narrow ring but there isn't much material behind it. For me, there's enough to stop it running in under operation, and the prop speed plus thread resistance stops it unwinding. Not ideal but has worked the last decade and a half.
    If the over size alan head or torqz or end mill tapped gently in doesn't work I think I'd go dremel and cut a slot for an ordinary screwdriver before drilling right through. But I don't own left hand drill bits. I feel one of those will work but disasembly if needed isn't that hard, its been a while since I did it.
    Assembly requires 3 hands or cunning, I might have loose taped the body on or loose zip tied it to get the blades cogged in .
    If you end up doing that then a sheet on the ground and reference marks scribed on the body for the blade positions help, the blades and body are numbered already.
    20220830_090514.jpg
    Misc fun fact from the manual, a 2 degree pitch change equals a 15 % RPM change
    I have thought about this and I conclude that you must be right. The grub screw was overdriven and mashed the seat.

    Italian engineering tends to be designed on the premise that enthusiastic gorillas won’t play with it - see also Harken winches vs Lewmar!

    I’m jealous; you have a hard copy of the Book of the Maxprop!
    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 08-30-2022 at 03:27 PM.
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  22. #22
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    I just stumbled across this youtube video. might be worth a try.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    If it just a grease port there likely is no "seat", it's just run into the end of the tapped threads.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

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  25. #25
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    That's gold, Andrew. When I was doing restorations on vintage cars I had a set that saved my bacon several times!

  26. #26
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    « Right, you pesky little £0.50p grub screw, come out with your hands up and pay your debt to Society! »
    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 09-04-2022 at 11:25 AM.
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  27. #27
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    « Right, you pesky little £0.50p grub screw, come out with your hands up and pay your debt to Society! »
    it doesn't stand a chance.....

  28. #28
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    Unscrew-ums, www.tltools.com These are the real thing, original as far as I know, and made by good people. Now, I see something similar everywhere from Woodcraft to Harbour Freight, but these are cut from slotted spring pins, hardened steel. They come in many sizes from small to large for many screw sizes.
    Last edited by Thad; 09-05-2022 at 01:05 PM.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    it doesn't stand a chance.....
    I showed it the instruments of torture and it recanted in a moment.

    I played safe and spent a whole £1.00 on new grub screws.




    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 09-10-2022 at 02:35 PM.
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  30. #30
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    Default Re: “Easy-outs” (broken screw and bolt extractors).

    Ooh!
    That's good...

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