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Thread: $300 billion wealth transfer

  1. #1
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    Default $300 billion wealth transfer

    progressives have finally browbeaten the president into signing a blanket student loan forgiveness of $10k to those making less than $125k/year.

    one of their pet ideas since occupy. it's going to benefit both my kids.

    will benefit nobody who has already paid, or did not incur debt, starts college today, did not or will not go to college. but all those people will pay for it.

    dumbest **** ever.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    Not a fan of this either. I feel bad for my daughter who scrimped to pay off her loan - she should have delayed paying it and she would have been able to write it off now for free.

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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    Great way to piss of the middle and guarantee a lot of people don’t ever vote democrat. No matter how reasonable a candidate.

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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    I thought voting age in the U.S was 18.
    Gotta be several million undergrads who will benefit from this and get to vote in 2024.
    Perhaps not the dumbest **** ever.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    It’s bull**** not to repay your debts. Wrong on every level.

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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    Right. Bitter toxic resentment of those who might get something you don't is just what drives voters . . . Oh wait, never mind. Anyone who thinks like this already votes Republican.

    What horsesh!t. This is a modest good idea. Very far from utopia, but still a good idea.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    I never had student debt, but I did pay a chunk of #1 daughter's student loan. I have no resentment about this gift. Actually, I think the forgiveness should be a lot larger. Actually, I'm all in favor of free college for anyone who wants to go.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    I'm not really up on this:
    Who holds this debt?
    Does the President really have the authority to do this? It sounds like a pursestrings issue, the bailiwick of the Congress.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    I was thinking they should start a small business loan forgiveness program, same deal, right?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Right. Bitter toxic resentment of those who might get something you don't is just what drives voters . . . Oh wait, never mind. Anyone who thinks like this already votes Republican.

    What horsesh!t. This is a modest good idea. Very far from utopia, but still a good idea.
    Wait...... isn't that the argument for taxing the rich? They are getting something that you don't? I'm just messing with you a little!

    I have found that too many people go to college that shouldn't. It has become the middle class expectation that everyone should go to college after high school. If people start to think that their educational costs will be written off by a generous government it will only exacerbate the problem. College costs have outpaced inflation and sadly this is because Universities are becoming overloaded with non-teaching middle and upper management. Less teachers and facilities and more administrators. It has added great cost to an education without improving the academics. Writing off some of the tuition is not the solution as it only treats the symptom. Universities need to be held more accountable. What is their graduation rate? How many of their graduates obtain employment in their trained field? What is their acceptance rate? The ability to even offer loans and financial aid should be strongly tied to these metrics.

    Roughly 40% of college graduate report that they are not using their degree in their current employment.
    Last edited by Boatbum; 08-24-2022 at 02:34 PM.

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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    Our daughter used the Hope Scholarship to pay for her undergrad. Had to keep and maintain at least a 3.0 to get the $$. Does Biden’s plan have any such requirements on academic performance or will a 2.0 in Gender studies still allow a Starbucks Barrista to pay off her useless degree on my daughters dime?
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

  12. #12
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Right. Bitter toxic resentment of those who might get something you don't is just what drives voters . . . Oh wait, never mind. Anyone who thinks like this already votes Republican.

    What horsesh!t. This is a modest good idea. Very far from utopia, but still a good idea.
    Isn't this always the way with all change if it helps anyone? It's a great argument to fix nothing that's broken.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

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  13. #13
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Right. Bitter toxic resentment of those who might get something you don't is just what drives voters . . . Oh wait, never mind. Anyone who thinks like this already votes Republican.

    What horsesh!t. This is a modest good idea. Very far from utopia, but still a good idea.
    The College experience today is ridiculously expensive...
    • This last year, the average cost of a college degree (4 years) was roughly $122,000 including fees, tuition, rooms and board, textbooks, and other necessities.
    • The average fixed interest rate on a 10-year private student loan was 7.16% from August 15 to August 20. That's for borrowers with a credit score of 720 or higher who prequalified on Credible.com's student loan marketplace
    • So buck up..the $10K is just a leg up for students, most have many thousands left to pay.

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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    So, instead of dumping money into these often oversold loans, that money will be pushed into the economy via housing, purchases, etc.

    Do you suppose those diabetics who’ve paid thousands for insulin will resent those who only have to pay $35 a month?
    ITS CHAOS, BE KIND

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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    College costs have outpaced inflation and sadly this is because Universities are becoming overloaded with non-teaching middle and upper management
    One reason, anyway. Tuition inflation has been utterly ridiculous, higher than anything else in the economy, and it sure as hell ain't because the professors are getting paid that much more.

    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    Im my field, one can get student debt forgiveness in exchange for public service work. That is, years actually working in the health and human services field.

    But that’s inconvenient. $120,000 cap? Jesus.

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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    One reason, anyway. Tuition inflation has been utterly ridiculous, higher than anything else in the economy, and it sure as hell ain't because the professors are getting paid that much more.


    I started at the University of Massachusetts in 1973. A semester for tuition, student fees, dorm and full meal plan cost exactly $1,001.00. That's right, $8,000 for a four year education. Back then it was a bargain.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofswen View Post
    The College experience today is ridiculously expensive...
    • This last year, the average cost of a college degree (4 years) was roughly $122,000 including fees, tuition, rooms and board, textbooks, and other necessities.
    • The average fixed interest rate on a 10-year private student loan was 7.16% from August 15 to August 20. That's for borrowers with a credit score of 720 or higher who prequalified on Credible.com's student loan marketplace
    • So buck up..the $10K is just a leg up for students, most have many thousands left to pay.
    According to the administration $10,000 will fully retire loans for 30% of the borrowers. Another 20% will see their loans cut in half. That means that all that money will have pretty good impact for about half the people.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    One of my daughters went to the same school I did for undergraduate. Tuition for me in 1980 was $206/quarter. It's now over $3000 per quarter
    What's not on a boat costs nothing, weighs nothing, and can't break

  21. #21
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    toxic resentment because somebody gets something i don't?

    i mentioned in the o.p. that this benefits my family directly.

    but it is dumb. fixes nothing about college costs, or the system of higher education. it is a one time wealth transfer, with a high income threshold.

    five years from now we will have a whole new generation of students with the same debts.

    a bunch of fairly well to do people are going to get a nice little gift, eh?

    and yes, it will endgender a lot of resentment, and not just from republicans.

    my resentment is for the nitwits that drove our party leader to do this garbage.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    I don't think I have thought about that song for the past 10 years.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Z View Post
    You guys are bizarre. You're fine with subsidizing wealthy A-holes' tax evasion, but hey, no college kids trying to start out in life under the burden of thousands in debt!

    pathetic, you are.
    no, i'm not fine with subsidizing tax evasion.

    yes, i understand kids starting life with a burden of debt. like my own kids, who made responsible choices in education, worked to fund some of their education, got some help from mom and dad, ended up with reasonable debt loads and reasonable earning ability. and now they will both have their debt cut right about in half. which is nice for my family.

    but put your ear to the ground. what do you hear from mainstream america? they think it is nonsensical, and they are right.

    i thought biden was doing a nice job of relieving debt in specific circumstances where it made sense. we'd had several rounds of it that got only muted criticisms with no real traction. and precious little praise or positive press from the left. so much for that.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Tuition inflation has been utterly ridiculous, higher than anything else in the economy....
    and what does this loan forgiveness have to do with that?

    there is nothing in this wealth transfer that fixes anything systemic for next year's students.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    Right. We didn't see 10% as much noise here about dropping the capital gains tax rate, which almost exclusively benefited the top 1%. But try to cancel $10K in student loans, and the whining is deafening. Jesus T. Christ.

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    And what does this loan forgiveness have to do with that? (tuition inflation) There is nothing in this wealth transfer that fixes anything systemic for next year's students.
    Quite right, nothing at all. That's another problem, which requires other solutions.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  26. #26
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    this is the first time in years that republicans have had a chance to say something rational, logical, sensible, and fact-based in attacking democrats or our president. they are having a field day.

    i even read a column in the national review full of republican lawmaker's quotes, and found nothing to even quibble with.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    If you are looking for an explanation for the rising cost of education, consider this: At every university I know the administration is growing faster than the academic departments. Explain that and you will understand.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

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  28. #28
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Right. We didn't see 10% as much noise here about dropping the capital gains tax rate, which almost exclusively benefited the top 1%. But try to cancel $10K in student loans, and the whining is deafening. Jesus T. Christ.

    Quite right, nothing at all. That's another problem, which requires other solutions.
    is that what you hear me doing, keith, whining?

    i'm listening to what is being said, and thinking about how this is going to play with american voters. how the issue will be used. what the actual consequences are for our society, our culture, and frankly even the future of democracy.

    it's not fair that a capital gains tax cut doesn't get more americans riled up, but it doesn't. that is the world we are living in. we can respond to it realistically, or lose.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Right. We didn't see 10% as much noise here about dropping the capital gains tax rate, which almost exclusively benefited the top 1%. But try to cancel $10K in student loans, and the whining is deafening. Jesus T. Christ.

    Quite right, nothing at all. That's another problem, which requires other solutions.
    I'm not seeing much whining. Also I see these issues as pretty different and certainly requiring different solutions. That said I did inject the "tax the rich" meme so I am partly to blame. One is a tax code change and the other may have more philosophical perspectives. With a loan you agree to take on debt and pay it off but now everyone who pays taxes is paying it for you. Also it really rewards the poorer planners: Some may have chosen community college their first two years and a very affordable college for their second two years. After graduating their loans were small and they sacrificed to pay them. Someone else goes a full 4 years to an expensive college and voluntarily finances large amounts - they are being rewarded for their lack of caution while the more responsible person get only an education without debt forgiveness. Why can't we have a system where the students that got good grades and borrowed wisely are incentivized for their actions?

    I don't think that the rich should escape their tax obligations and the code needs to be revised thought I do not think we should be taxing people on unrealized capital gains. At least not by having them file a annual net work of their holdings and the paying on the appreciation of its value.

    Something definitely needs to be done systemically to incentivize colleges to keep their costs (and tuition) down.


    With that I'm done for the day so if anyone want to accuse me of not replaying to their post, this would be a great opportunity. Have a good night all!

  30. #30
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    this policy is picking winners and losers.

    the winners are students and ex-students with student loans and less than $125k/year income.

    the losers is everybody else who could use a break and gets a tax bill instead.

    if you think picking winners this way is somehow better, or more just, than picking winners via a capital gains tax break, i will consider an actual argument. leave the eye rolling out, thanks in advance.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    my commiserations lee

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    this policy is picking winners and losers.

    the winners are students and ex-students with student loans and less than $125k/year income.
    if they'd bump the income limit kat could write the remainder of her debt off dammit
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    no way am i voting for biden again after this debacle
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    I like the debt relief move. Not every move helps every person. It’s true. I’d also like to see graduates leave higher education without crippling debt. At least we’re now talking about it. I can’t imagine that after interest is applied that it’s a fair trade or a good value return on the money owed. I went to college in the 90s. It was cheap and we got what we paid for. Has the quality of education gone up since then? Instinct says no.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    my commiserations lee
    hey, thanks for understanding

  35. #35
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    Default Re: $300 billion wealth transfer

    Every policy that affects some people differently than others 'picks winners and losers'.

    And I'd be willing to bet that this will be a significant winner, politically.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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