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Thread: How far gone is this?

  1. #1
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    Default How far gone is this?

    I have a line on a beautiful boat, but unfortunately it's been on blocks and neglected for a while. I noticed a localized area of visible and hidden rot, but suspect it could become a large repair once its been opened. As it is now, planks, decking, deckhead and probably the frame is toast in at least one section. Also, the keel and chining has dried/separated.

    I'm ultimately curious, how many of you would think it'd be worth the effort to try and remedy these known issues and how many would walk away from this boat. For arguments sake, let's assume the boat is free and moving it is a non-issue.

    Cheers!

    IMG_20220821_144439.jpg
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    First thing I see is rusted fastenings. The second thing I see is refastened/ overfastened with non ferocious metal, which will cause the rusty ones to rust even faster.
    So, the boat will need a new boat.
    the next thing I see is an obsolete gasser.
    The next thing I see is an un insurable boat
    then there is the problem of securing year round covered moorage
    beyond that no problemo
    the screwdriver looks salvageable

  3. #3
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    Short answer is no way. Long answer is nooooo wayyyyy.

    That's a big boat and a massive project. There's a reason it's free. Someone wants it out of their barn. (I'd actually rather have the barn than the boat, tbh.) If that's the category of boat you want, then there are others in better shape that would cost you less to triage and keep on the water. You're in BC. Plenty of boats to go around.

    But she is a beautiful old boat, and the things we do for love, ya know.
    Quote Originally Posted by James McMullen View Post
    Yeadon is right, of course.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    In the days of yore, it's value would be to sift through it's ashes for the fittings.
    ​​♦ During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act
    ♦ The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it
    ♦ If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear
    ♦ George Orwell

  5. #5
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    Thats not a boat. Thats a bonfire that hasnt happened yet.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    First thing I see is rusted fastenings. The second thing I see is refastened/ overfastened with non ferocious metal, which will cause the rusty ones to rust even faster.
    So, the boat will need a new boat.
    the next thing I see is an obsolete gasser.
    The next thing I see is an un insurable boat
    then there is the problem of securing year round covered moorage
    beyond that no problemo
    the screwdriver looks salvageable
    Talk about "gassers!"
    One does nobody any good by surveying a boat via a snapshop on the interwebs. In forty years of boat restoration, I have done boats which looked as bad as this one. And worse.
    A critical element which has not been discussed is the condition of the engine(s).
    The casual reader should note that there are bs artistes that frequent this neighborhood. Clearly a lot of time and money will be needed to bring this boat back to health. A prospective owner would do well to step carefully among the opinions here. Get a good informed survey.
    Last edited by pcford; 08-23-2022 at 01:56 PM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    I'll go out on a limb and say the OP is not a professional boat restorer. I'll go further out on a limb and say the OP hasnt got a farking clue what he's looking at or he wouldnt have asked the question. If there's any limb left I'll venture to guess that the OP has no idea what the cost in time, material and labor are involved in even floating that boat much less anything resembling a "Restoration".

    He did ask for opinions and thats what he got.

    Be careful climbing down from that high horse Mr. Ford.....

  8. #8
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    "farking clue:"
    Most of the people I worked for were not have the able to restore their boat themselves.
    Evidently you boys see something that a professional cannot.


  9. #9
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    Quote Originally Posted by pcford View Post
    "farking clue:"
    Most of the people I worked for were not have the able to restore their boat themselves.
    Evidently you boys see something that a professional cannot.

    C'mon Pat. Yes, of course a professional could restore that boat for a price. And a professional would be able to give a more accurate picture of the effort and cost required by seeing it in person. But everyone who has responded to this thread has years or decades of experience and we all know that boat is never going back in the water for any amount of money that would make economic sense. Even as a DIY project it's a non-starter, especially for anyone who doesn't already have the skills to do the work. You can accuse anyone of being a "BS artist" and it's true that most of us - myself especially - are amateurs. But I've actually taken on a no-hope project as an amateur so I think I have some experience here. Which, after all, is the point of a forum. To get the benefit of experience from people who have done it.

    My take? I'm with Bruce, Tim and everyone else. You can walk down any random dock between Vancouver and Prince Rupert and find a better boat for less than it would take to put a new coat of paint on that one. I see them on craigslist all the time.
    - Chris

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    Life is short. Go boating now!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    Another "farking clue:"
    "that boat is never going back in the water for any amount of money that would make economic sense."
    News flash: Restoring a rough old boat _almost never_ makes economic sense. With that said, I did restore a boat a few decades ago...the name was Woodrow. It left the Seattle area a dozen years ago and is now known by another name in the SF Bay area. It looks great. I can say with certainty that the boat cost far more to restore than it is worth today.
    Sorry but that's the truth. I am impressed with the ability of some of you to survey a boat on the basis of four bad snapshots.
    Got to get back to actually being productive...but carry on.

    Last edited by pcford; 08-23-2022 at 04:07 PM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    Quote Originally Posted by pcford View Post
    Another "farking clue:"
    "that boat is never going back in the water for any amount of money that would make economic sense."
    News flash: Restoring a rough old boat _almost never_ makes economic sense. With that said, I did restore a boat a few decades ago...the name was Woodrow. It left the Seattle area a dozen years ago and is now known by another name in the SF Bay area. It looks great. I can say with certainty that the boat cost far more to restore than it is worth today.
    Sorry but that's the truth. I am impressed with the ability of some of you to survey a boat on the basis of four bad snapshots.
    Got to get back to actually being productive...but carry on.

    The funny thing is that we agree. I do know Woodrow/Makoto (although certainly not as well as you do). I nearly bought the boat in the mid-90s but I ended up buying Savona instead. She's a great boat, but as you say "that the boat cost far more to restore than it is worth today". As would be the case for most boats. So what you are really saying is that "old boats cost a lot of money to restore". Which is true, if somewhat obvious. And it is also true that boats you don't have to restore are almost always less expensive. So, the collective advice here is that it would be better to start with a boat that does not need as much work. I don't think that requires anyone to "survey a boat on the basis of four bad snapshots".
    - Chris

    Any single boat project will always expand to encompass the set of all possible boat projects.

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  12. #12
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    After zooming in on the photos and giving it more thought, bs feels you should simply submerge the vessel into a vat of WEST. Study up on blush …. Yer good to go
    bruce smith

  13. #13
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    I guess I have to toss in my 2 cents worth - being the owner of an old wood boat that I've sunk stoopid amounts of money into.

    Having dealt with the damage done by iron fastenings, my biggest concern with the boat in the OP is the rust streaks. I bet if you were to take off the paint around where a streak originates you'll find a sliver of steel screw surrounded by several inches of severely damaged wood. Could you cut it out & patch in new? Yep - but by the time you got done a new plank would've been easier/cheaper. Then are the ripples in the canvas (?) decking. How much rot is under there? Did it get into the deck beams?

    I'm a sucker for pretty old boats, but this one will be a huge investment in time and money - even if you do 100% of the work yourself. Price bronze screws if you're not familiar. A buck or 2 apiece doesn't sound like a lot - until you realize you need 2,000 of 'em. This is from the guy who (with help) replanked the waterline down on his boat & spent a bit over 3K on screws alone. The wood was another thousand & I got a good deal on it. Admittedly the waterline is 40 ft & she draws 8 ft - but...
    "If it ain't broke, you're not trying." - Red Green

  14. #14
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    Those rust streaks aren't so bad, fasteners may be okay, or not. No way to tell from here. I paint over rust streaks worse than that twice a year, and the fasteners are still solid.The thing that scares me most is the deck. Some tapping with a hammer top and bottom of the deck will give a clue what the situation is.

    If the deck is shot and the hull around fasteners is getting punky, I'd not take the project on without a very compelling reason.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    I'm a total amateur and I have no idea how to assess that boat based on the pictures above. But, I'm going to address something that is, I think, more important.

    OP — why are you interested in the boat? Do you want a project (and how much of one)? Or to be out on the water (and how soon)?

    I built my boat in 1200 hours over 27 months, paid way more in lumber and material than I could ever sell it for, and I've only used it once in the past two years. For someone who wants to be out on the water on a wooden boat, that would be insane. But me? I'm happy with it because I knew what I wanted — a challenging woodworking project — and I got it.

    Determine what you want first. Consider what you're willing to do to get it (most importantly, how much time and money). Then, the nice, experienced folks here can help you figure out how well this boat jives with your goals and resources. If it doesn't, then they can steer you in a direction that better fits you.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    Rusting screw heads:
    1. chip off gross rust and polish with small cup wire brush.
    2. apply rust killer.
    3. prime.

    Don't install adjacent bronze fasteners.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    After zooming in on the photos and giving it more thought, bs feels you should simply submerge the vessel into a vat of WEST. Study up on blush …. Yer good to go
    bruce smith
    Hey! the vat of WEST was MY joking bad idea!! No fair!

  18. #18
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    I’ll go out on a limb and venture that, given the tone of many of the responses, the OP is unlikely to bother returning here........

    And as Pat suggests, surveying and immediately condemning a boat based on four photos????

    Floating B’y, if you do look back in, it’d be very useful to know what your plans are, why you are interested in her (ie, does she have any family/historical significance to you? are you after a long term project? a classroom to teach yourself boat restoration? something to get on the water with quickly?) and what your skill level is.

    What else do you know about the boat? Is the engine running? What is the transmission and running gear etc like (shaft, prop, engine mounts, etc) does it come with any functional systems and equipment - water pumps, bilge pumps, anchor windlass, head/toilet, electrical systems, electronics, fresh water tank and fuel tank condition......etc. So separately to the condition of the hull, is the rest of the boat going to need to be replaced anyway or is there any way that it could be worth rebuilding the hull around?????

    This boat is obviously in need of significant work and, regardless of whatever advice you get here, it will ultimately be your decision as to whether you take her on or not. If you do take her on I have no doubt that you will find the level of support and advice on here to be surprisingly good and helpful.

    Most importantly though, don’t expect anyone to be able to properly judge the value and repairability of this boat from photos and such a basic description as in the OP - if you are serious about the boat pay for a surveyor to go over it and to start a work list for you. It will be well worth the investment in the long run.
    Larks

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    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    What it should have is salvage value, none of the pics show anything but the portholes but those are $200.00 a pop. I have salvaged more than one boat just for the bronze. If the motor is in there it might not be worth much but the gear box might have some value.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Larks View Post
    I’ll go out on a limb and venture that, given the tone of many of the responses, the OP is unlikely to bother returning here........

    And as Pat suggests, surveying and immediately condemning a boat based on four photos????

    Floating B’y, if you do look back in, it’d be very useful to know what your plans are, why you are interested in her (ie, does she have any family/historical significance to you? are you after a long term project? a classroom to teach yourself boat restoration? something to get on the water with quickly?) and what your skill level is.

    What else do you know about the boat? Is the engine running? What is the transmission and running gear etc like (shaft, prop, engine mounts, etc) does it come with any functional systems and equipment - water pumps, bilge pumps, anchor windlass, head/toilet, electrical systems, electronics, fresh water tank and fuel tank condition......etc. So separately to the condition of the hull, is the rest of the boat going to need to be replaced anyway or is there any way that it could be worth rebuilding the hull around?????

    This boat is obviously in need of significant work and, regardless of whatever advice you get here, it will ultimately be your decision as to whether you take her on or not. If you do take her on I have no doubt that you will find the level of support and advice on here to be surprisingly good and helpful.

    Most importantly though, don’t expect anyone to be able to properly judge the value and repairability of this boat from photos and such a basic description as in the OP - if you are serious about the boat pay for a surveyor to go over it and to start a work list for you. It will be well worth the investment in the long run.
    Well said.
    There is someone on this thread who is wasting electrons offering his "opinions."

  21. #21
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShorelineJohn View Post
    What it should have is salvage value, none of the pics show anything but the portholes but those are $200.00 a pop. I have salvaged more than one boat just for the bronze. If the motor is in there it might not be worth much but the gear box might have some value.
    I’m trying to buy exactly those portholes at this very moment - I’m waiting on a response from Spartan regarding postage costs but new they are USD499.00 each.
    Larks

    “It’s impossible”, said pride.
    “It’s risky”, said experience.
    “It’s pointless”, said reason.
    “Give it a try”, whispered the heart.

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  22. #22
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    Just like with cars sometime it's the little things that have value, to the right person.
    In my quest for inexpensive bronze I have demolished a couple of boats like that. It's a lot of work for very little gain most the time, and I have given it up but it does give one a sense of what is worth what.
    I recycled a motor block at Lynnwood Recycle last friday and they had a huge 10' 4 bladed brass propeller and housing sitting there, it was beautiful! My guess would be 2 tons.
    Good luck on the portholes.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    Most times, nothing is more expensive than a free boat.

    That said, do you have some emotional tie here? Was it granddads boat?
    There are two kinds of boaters: those who have run aground, and those who lie about it.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    I suppose the days when you could burn a boat or a ship on the beach for the metal are long gone.

    Lots of famous ships were torched just north of Seattle
    What's not on a boat costs nothing, weighs nothing, and can't break

  25. #25
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    I'm not sure if the OP is still following our somewhat off-topic meanderings, but I do have some specific advice. First, read this thread. All of it. It's long but it's the best narrative here about restoring an old powerboat.

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...alled-me-Today

    That's what you will be in for with this boat.

    Second, almost any boat can be repaired given enough time and skill. The skill can be learned but time is a concern unless you have a place to put the boat that won't cost anything. If you can get the boat for free, and moving it is not an issue, and you have a place to put it in your back yard for the next few years then sure. There is no reason not to do it. You can certainly find a better boat to start with but if you like this one and you enjoy the thought of a long-term project then go ahead. But if you have to pay yard rates to have a place to work on it then I'd say don't do it. You will likely spend more in yard fees than the cost of something already in the water and ready to go.
    - Chris

    Any single boat project will always expand to encompass the set of all possible boat projects.

    Life is short. Go boating now!

  26. #26
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    Quote Originally Posted by cstevens View Post
    I'm not sure if the OP is still following our somewhat off-topic meanderings, but I do have some specific advice. First, read this thread. All of it. It's long but it's the best narrative here about restoring an old powerboat.

    http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthre...alled-me-Today

    That's what you will be in for with this boat.
    Worth noting the start date on that thread (2009) and the time elapsed to get her in the water.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: How far gone is this?

    I would not tell anyone that this boat is "rebuildable" or "not rebuildable" without scraping off the paint from parts of the hull. Until then it looks like a guesswork to me.
    Amateur living on the western coast of Finland

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