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Thread: Another unpopular opinion

  1. #71
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    Default Re: Another unpopular opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by epoxyboy View Post
    let's be brutally honest, figuring out the age of Mars, or whether it once had life, or a thousand other scientific things we might discover has zero bearing or practical application to our life on earth.
    All our knowledge of biology and geology is based on a sample of one - one single lineage of life forms, all with the same biochemistry, and one single planet studied up close. Even the Moon rocks turned out to be bits of the early Earth.

    Being able to do a comparative analysis between two different planets, and perhaps life with two different origins and chemistry, would revolutionize our understanding of the principles that govern geology and biology on Earth.


    It's science for the sake of science and curiosity
    So was looking at pond scum with microscopes, a couple of centuries before the microbial theory of disease was developed.

  2. #72
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    Default Re: Another unpopular opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    All our knowledge of biology and geology is based on a sample of one - one single lineage of life forms, all with the same biochemistry, and one single planet studied up close. Even the Moon rocks turned out to be bits of the early Earth.

    Being able to do a comparative analysis between two different planets, and perhaps life with two different origins and chemistry, would revolutionize our understanding of the principles that govern geology and biology on Earth.




    So was looking at pond scum with microscopes, a couple of centuries before the microbial theory of disease was developed.
    I'll concede that we can't see today where the science might lead tomorrow. But on balance of probability, an observation on earth in a contemporary real-time setting is far more likely to yield something of useful value than spending twenty billion dollars to look at the last vestiges of events that were done and dusted ten billion or more years ago.
    On that basis, per your point about biology, planetary exploration might yield something useful. Manned exploration may or may not add value to that, for sure it's orders of magnitude more versatile and adaptable than any robotics system currently in existence.
    Knowing that the moon was once part of the earth? Interesting, knowledge for the sake of knowledge, but fundamentally useless. Your car isn't, and never will, run on green cheese and moonbeams for knowing that.
    Knowing that the most distant object in the observable universe is however many billions of light years away - equally interesting, and even less relevant. And yet we spend billions of dollars finding this almost certainly useless knowledge out, but can't see the value of putting an actual person on the planets where that might be feasible. I'm astonished at the lack of imagination.

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  3. #73
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    Default Re: Another unpopular opinion

    Why the Artemis components (at least the core stage) are not reusable. I had heard that it all comes down to payload carrying capacity.

    "The core stage's size, as well as its altitude and speed at engine cutoff, made recovery impractical without making a significant sacrifice in cargo-carrying capability. The core stage will break apart on reentry and drop any surviving parts into the Pacific Ocean."
    "Wherever there is a channel for water, there is a road for the canoe. " - Thoreau

  4. #74
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    Default Re: Another unpopular opinion

    SLS = pork spread among the constituencies of key senators and congresspeople so that it cannot be cancelled. Boeing gets to sell multibillion dollar rockets made from obsolete technology and stuff that was laying around, like old space shuttle engines. All cost plus, of course, so no recovery. If it was reusable there would be less cost for them to plus.

    I really hope it blows up spectacularly.

  5. #75
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    Default Re: Another unpopular opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    but was the war dept contract what motivated the wrights to begin with?
    Don't know. If you assume they had the idea of making some money from their invention, the war department appears to be their first customer.

  6. #76
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    Default Re: Another unpopular opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    I was all for it when man put up Sputnik and landed on the moon. But no longer, it's a distraction from the main game now, survival on THIS planet, let alone another. And as has been said, beyond the envelope of earth space is a fatal place for humans and automated equipment will explore what of space we can access in useful time in a cheaper more efficient way. Sending humans to say Mars is just hubris.
    I tend to agree. This money would be better spent saving the planet we all live on.
    "Banning books and not guns seems backwards. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

  7. #77
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    Default Re: Another unpopular opinion

    I wonder if there are any comparisons here to early explorers. Some theorized the earth was flat and you would sail off the edge. Navigation was poor at best ships were expensive and often lost due to groundings or storms. Some for the earlies were simply looking for better fishing grounds. They were seeking the "new world" in hopes of gold or easier routes to far off parts of the world that had something they wanted. In many cases what they got was not what they expected but still worth the effort and expense. Maybe all we are doing this time is looking literally for the New World.

  8. #78
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    Default Re: Another unpopular opinion

    Some theorized the earth was flat
    Based on my polling on Facebook, you would be surprised at how many people still think the earth is flat! That, and NASA is public enemy no. 1, we never landed on the moon, Stanley Kubrick directed the hoax, space does not exist, you will run into the Firmanent, etc. etc. etc. Maybe a mission to the moon will be educational.
    "Wherever there is a channel for water, there is a road for the canoe. " - Thoreau

  9. #79
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    Default Re: Another unpopular opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by Fitz View Post
    Based on my polling on Facebook, you would be surprised at how many people still think the earth is flat! That, and NASA is public enemy no. 1, we never landed on the moon, Stanley Kubrick directed the hoax, space does not exist, you will run into the Firmanent, etc. etc. etc. Maybe a mission to the moon will be educational.
    I know, but I lost my tin foil hat several years ago

  10. #80
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    Default Re: Another unpopular opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    I wonder if there are any comparisons here to early explorers. Some theorized the earth was flat and you would sail off the edge. Navigation was poor at best ships were expensive and often lost due to groundings or storms. Some for the earlies were simply looking for better fishing grounds. They were seeking the "new world" in hopes of gold or easier routes to far off parts of the world that had something they wanted. In many cases what they got was not what they expected but still worth the effort and expense. Maybe all we are doing this time is looking literally for the New World.
    The New World was already populated. One could also make the comparison to early explorers wanting to find the Fountain of Youth. The problem with the analogies is that off planet isn’t like another continent. It’s harder than living 10,000’ deep in the ocean or 25,000’ on a mountain top. You can visit it but no one is moving there. So sure explore by all means possible but given the environments explored camping there comes at a very large expense.

  11. #81
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    Default Re: Another unpopular opinion

    The real analogy is with climbing Mount Everest, or reaching the poles. Inspiring and all that, but not worthy of billions in public funding. And not much added to human knowledge. Expensive stunts, best left to private adventurers.

  12. #82
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    Default Re: Another unpopular opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    The real analogy is with climbing Mount Everest, or reaching the poles. Inspiring and all that, but not worthy of billions in public funding. And not much added to human knowledge. Expensive stunts, best left to private adventurers.
    One thing about Musk is that he’s developed a more economical launch system. $2 -$4 Billion for each SLS launch. Cripes.

  13. #83
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    Default Re: Another unpopular opinion

    the space shuttle's cost was $450 million per mission in 2011 dollars
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  14. #84
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    Default Re: Another unpopular opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    the space shuttle
    More senseless waste of money.

  15. #85
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    Default Re: Another unpopular opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    More senseless waste of money.
    i forget, were/are you a hubble fan?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  16. #86
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    Default Re: Another unpopular opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    i forget, were/are you a hubble fan?
    Did you notice the JWST went up in a regular rocket?

  17. #87
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    Default Re: Another unpopular opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Did you notice the JWST went up in a regular rocket?
    a french one no less

    good thing we haven't had to send someone to fix it (the telescope) yet
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  18. #88
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    Default Re: Another unpopular opinion

    I like manned space stuff. I like watching big rockets.

    If the United States doesn’t do it, China will anyway.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

  19. #89
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    Default Re: Another unpopular opinion

    The point is, no matter who does it, the large-scale exploration and colonization of other planets, let alone distant star systems, is bound to fail.

  20. #90
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    Default Re: Another unpopular opinion

    if the chinese do it first, there won't be any space left out there!

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