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Thread: America's small businesses are running out of workers

  1. #36
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    First step is solving this problem is universal healthcare. Get this expense off the backs of employers, and they'll be able to pay higher wages.
    "Banning books and not guns seems backwards. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

  2. #37
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Mostly demographics and numbers. The unemployment rate in Minnesota is now 1.8%, the lowest ever recorded since they started keeping track.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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  3. #38
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    First step is solving this problem is universal healthcare. Get this expense off the backs of employers, and they'll be able to pay higher wages.
    Very true. Right now, the whole U.S. economy is operating at a competitive disadvantage due to the high cost of health care. And who benefits? The corporate interests in that industry. Silly and perverse.
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  4. #39
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Very true. Right now, the whole U.S. economy is operating at a competitive disadvantage due to the high cost of health care. And who benefits? The corporate interests in that industry. Silly and perverse.
    Many years ago when I was working, my employer was paying more for my health insurance than my wages.
    "Banning books and not guns seems backwards. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

  5. #40
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    Many years ago when I was working, my employer was paying more for my health insurance than my wages.
    Yes, DumBassery.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  6. #41
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Quote Originally Posted by switters View Post
    I'm terrible at keeping up but I thought he was on vacation at the moment in Italy?
    Renee was taking a siesta and I was bored She’s up now so we are going out to get some gelato now ciao
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  7. #42
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Z View Post
    I'm 68 years old, house paid off, and on Medicare. I've been working on a three month contract for almost 3 years, and I'm now the senior member of my 5 person department. My income would be higher if I were to become an employee, but my current status doesn't cost the company I work at anything in benefits.
    Untapped resource?
    They got you to work for no benefits. They've tapped you plenty.

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  8. #43
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    Have any of you taken a basic math course ?

    Most small business are not raping their staff if we were to provide all those things and still paid above average wages we would be out of business faster than losing some staff. Ok so I pay H/I $400 per staff per month cheapest plan for my size company is $400 per month ( they have to chip in $400 as well ) That’s $400 x 8 = $3,200 a month , Or How about I just pay the full freight thats $6,400 a month. My payroll is $6,000 a month. Most small business will not pay themselves when things are tight so the staff always gets paid. Then there is rent, business insurance, supplies, taxes, for us fuel, registration, insurance, maintenance, Van payments of $1,600 per van per month X 4, Pet licenses for each city we service, etc etc etc

    Those that have never run a small business don’t get. As of now my staff makes significantly more than we do on each job, now you want us to basically loose money on each job so I can get better people ? For how long before we have to shut down ?

    Funny this from people that have always worked for someone or worked self employed and never actually had to run a small business.
    Yes Joe I have run a business, an international sales company for German and Irish manufactures, I also have 20+ years of experience working for some major strategy consulting firms.

    First of all, your competition for workers isn't just other small businesses, it is everyone from medium, large, multi-nationals to governments, so if you compare what you can pay and your cost to small business you are missing the point.

    Either you pay more, give better benefits or you don't hire (and keep) people. You do not have the right to be in business. If the business model can't be supported by current economic conditions then you need to find something else to do.

    And yes I have taken a lot of math.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Z View Post
    You've successfully missed the point. I don't need the benefits, I'm enjoying what I'm doing there, I can set my own schedule, and my work is appreciated.
    Nope, didn't miss the point. Whether you like it or not, they have tapped you as a valuable resource for minimal financial expense.

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  10. #45
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred Z View Post
    You've successfully missed the point. I don't need the benefits, I'm enjoying what I'm doing there, I can set my own schedule, and my work is appreciated.
    Missing the point is a strength for Tom. Reading something incorrect or off-kilter (as long as it offers an opening for one of his own hobbyhorses) into what you've said is a strength. Mansplaining that what you said, and the point you were making was NOT actually what you were saying, or the point you were making... is a strength. Latching onto a minor point with a death-grip is a strength. Holding onto a grievance and acting out inappropriately is a strength. Doubling down when corrected is a strength. Reading comprehension and adult back & forth... are not.
    David G
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  11. #46
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Free market means if workers are in low supply, you have to raise wages.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Missing the point is a strength for Tom.
    Pfft...

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  13. #48
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Pfft...

    Tom
    Continuing to contend... even after he runs out of cogent arguments to make... and out of personal buttehurt...is a strength of Tom's.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  14. #49
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Continuing to contend... even after he runs out of cogent arguments to make... and out of personal buttehurt...is a strength of Tom's.
    You go, Davie!

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  15. #50
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Time to revisit our immigration policies.

  16. #51
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    If only there were lots of folks from around the world that wanted to come to the US to work and raise their families. Like they’ve been doing for hundreds of years. Like my grandparents did.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    IMO, today's economy has many issues, but fundamental is the loss of the idea of a steady job, with a man supporting his family, which appears to have gone forever. The two-income household is now standard, and the idea of steady work is not. Henry Ford addressed this issue in the early 20th century by raising the basic industrial wage 300%. Industrial wages now are at an historic low, and industry has moved offshore anyway. Wages for household servants, like dog groomers and maids and other housekeepers are problematic. The days of Downton Abbey seem to be over.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    It's a complicated issue. One cause is the declining number of younger workers who will accept entry-level jobs, low pay, and a lack of job security.

    Another set of trends is a steep increase in the share of income business owners and corporations keep compared to what they pay in wages and salaries, especially after the Trump tax cuts.



    A third trend is the huge increase in the cost of both purchase and rental housing, especially in areas with more economic opportunity. Recently, inflation (largely owing to corporate profiteering with the blame on the pandemic) has added to the burden.
    This rhymes with what I see, though it's global so I'm not certain Trumps tax cuts carry weight here in Oz. There's simply more jobs than workers, so workers have choice and they are choosing for themselves.

    During the pandemic people in insecure work were dropped like hot potatos. Loyalty was shown to be a one way street. A job for life is the emperor with no clothes.
    Thats not causing the labour shortage, but it does explain the general move away from casual work, or working with small, minimally capitalised, companies.

    Roll on the wage rises, it's been a few decades!!!!
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  19. #54
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post

    As of now my staff makes significantly more than we do on each job
    That's not a problem. The basis of your business is taking a cut of your employees' earnings above what your total cost for each employee is. It sounds like four employees are currently bringing in a reasonable "cut" for you and your wife, above a reasonable wage for them, and that's nice for you and them.

    You just have to figure out what that "cut" should be, given how much you can charge for service, how many employees you can realistically manage, how much equipment debt and other debts you can take on, and how big your business should be before it becomes more bother and risk than it's worth.

    If you enjoy doing this then all is OK. Do you ever consider what you would do if you didn't have the dog grooming business? At your age are there alternative ways of making a better living that your current dog grooming business?

  20. #55
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    IMO, today's economy has many issues, but fundamental is the loss of the idea of a steady job, with a man supporting his family, which appears to have gone forever. The two-income household is now standard, and the idea of steady work is not. Henry Ford addressed this issue in the early 20th century by raising the basic industrial wage 300%. Industrial wages now are at an historic low, and industry has moved offshore anyway. Wages for household servants, like dog groomers and maids and other housekeepers are problematic. The days of Downton Abbey seem to be over.
    I agree whole heartedly with the first half. A second wage is no longer a cherry on top. The market has moved to accomodate additional household incomes, a second wage is now necessary.
    I think Downton Abbey has been gone for a while, but the service industry, like dog grooming, is the future in an automated world. They just got to get the scale and job security right.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  21. #56
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    10 days of paid leave a year!!
    This always blows me away about the USA. Like that's good.

    I was working with a woman who was in Chicago in the Field Museum. Government run I believe. She had a baby and was back in work two weeks later. I couldn't effin believe it. It was medieval.
    It's all fun and games until Darth Vader comes.

  22. #57
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    "When there is anaccumulation of money and power into fewer and fewer hands, peoplewith the mentality of gangsters come to the fore. Power tends tocorrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" -- Lord Acton

    This is his shorthand comment on the many and various sorts of dysfunction that emerge when the Gini Coefficient (a metric that hadn't been invented when he was writing) gets too high. Mr. McCosh's thoughts are one more example. The current composition of SCOTUS is another. A perverse U.S. health care system another. Election deniers, another. Gerrymandering, corrupt police departments, book banning, hateful & idiotic immigration policies, underfunded education systems, rising levels of homelessness, dark money in elections, the dearth of affordable housing, climate change... are all issues springing largely from this core problem.

    Corruption, nihilism, greed, hatred, etc. etc. -- it is all around us. And it will get worse until we correct that core problem. How? The only path I see is to elect those who also see it as a problem. Instead of those who regard it as an opportunity to get rich themselves.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  23. #58
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    This is not the country we were taught it is.
    "Banning books and not guns seems backwards. Can't think of anyone ever shot by a book

  24. #59
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    This is not the country we were taught it is.
    This is, and always has been, a nation that is alive and changing. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. See #57.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  25. #60
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    Default America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    Have any of you taken a basic math course ?

    Most small business are not raping their staff if we were to provide all those things and still paid above average wages we would be out of business faster than losing some staff. Ok so I pay H/I $400 per staff per month cheapest plan for my size company is $400 per month ( they have to chip in $400 as well ) That’s $400 x 8 = $3,200 a month , Or How about I just pay the full freight thats $6,400 a month. My payroll is $6,000 a month. Most small business will not pay themselves when things are tight so the staff always gets paid. Then there is rent, business insurance, supplies, taxes, for us fuel, registration, insurance, maintenance, Van payments of $1,600 per van per month X 4, Pet licenses for each city we service, etc etc etc

    Those that have never run a small business don’t get. As of now my staff makes significantly more than we do on each job, now you want us to basically loose money on each job so I can get better people ? For how long before we have to shut down ?

    Funny this from people that have always worked for someone or worked self employed and never actually had to run a small business.

    How is your payroll just 6k/month of your top groomer makes 80k? That is 6600 for them alone.


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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    It's not a lack of workers, it's a lack of workers who are willing to be exploited by working for next to nothing. Too many people profited off of the underpaid backs of their employees, that is changing and they do not like it. Workers unionizing at Starbucks, Amazon, and many hospitals are just the start of another revolution.
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  27. #62
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Covid is just a disease. Government shutdown businesses... mostly the small ones.
    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”― Mark Twain,


  28. #63
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Wilkinson View Post
    How is your payroll just 6k/month of your top groomer makes 80k? That is 6600 for them alone.


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  29. #64
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Hard to believe folks would rather work for fast food franchises than work with dogs.

  30. #65
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Haberland View Post
    It's not a lack of workers, it's a lack of workers who are willing to be exploited by working for next to nothing. Too many people profited off of the underpaid backs of their employees, that is changing and they do not like it. Workers unionizing at Starbucks, Amazon, and many hospitals are just the start of another revolution.
    So Art, the worms have turned………….?

  31. #66
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    I still am flummoxed, not by the Great Leaving, but by how an avalanche of jobs go unfilled. What are the Leavers doing for personal cash flow, do they live with their parents?

    Three things will cure this phenomena: Decent working conditions. Great pay. Respect. Robert Reich pointed out the other day that if minimum wage had kept up with Wall street bonuses, today it would be $62/hr.
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  32. #67
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    Robert Reich pointed out the other day that if minimum wage had kept up with Wall street bonuses, today it would be $62/hr.
    I think I'd happily go back to mixing dough at Rocky Rococo's for $62 an hour!

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  33. #68
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    I still am flummoxed, not by the Great Leaving, but by how an avalanche of jobs go unfilled. What are the Leavers doing for personal cash flow, do they live with their parents?
    I wonder if a tendency for today's workers to move from a 2-job household to a 1-job household has been a big part of the issue? After all the Covid disruptions, many people might be finding out that it makes more sense financially to have one parent stay home with the kids, rather than having 2 jobs and spending the income from one of them (or even more) on childcare.

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  34. #69
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    I wonder if a tendency for today's workers to move from a 2-job household to a 1-job household has been a big part of the issue? After all the Covid disruptions, many people might be finding out that it makes more sense financially to have one parent stay home with the kids, rather than having 2 jobs and spending the income from one of them (or even more) on childcare.

    Tom
    Anecdote --

    My oldest son and his wife + 2 toddlers bought a trailer, parked it in our driveway, and are saving money for our goal of creating a 'family compound' out of town a bit. (along with the younger son - and maybe some extended/honorary family as well). The notion is that it'll be more pleasant, more conducive to raising kids, and cheaper overall if we all pool our resources and live together. Big garden. Orchard. Pond. My shop right there on the property. And better for the elders to age in place/die at home. Not to mention better situated to withstand the Zombie Apocalypse. This was the boy's idea when we started talking about buying a house better suited for us to 'age in place'.

    And part of their gameplan has been for one parent to be a stay at home. Right now mom is the working parent, but they are making noises about dad doing law school and taking over the 'earner/commuter' status.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  35. #70
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    Default Re: America's small businesses are running out of workers

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Covid is just a disease. Government shutdown businesses... mostly the small ones.
    if that were true, there would be a surplus of workers, not a shortage.

    what the covid restrictions and stimuluses did, was pick winners and losers. generally the least scrupulous and most anti-social won out. it's a trend.

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