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Thread: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by willin woodworks View Post
    We dont need Liz Cheney to be a democrat. There is nothing wrong with a truly principled conservative. We used to have a bunch of them in the house and the senate. Alan Simpson, Orrin Hatch come to mind. I rarely agreed with them but they had principles and they stuck to them even when they came to a compromise with the other side. Thats what a healthy democracy looks like.
    I'm not sure that she is a "truly principled conservative". Trump is her white whale and she will strike at it from hell's heart. Some, myself included, would argue that she agreed to be on a committee where its composition defied all previous practices. The minority party has always picked its committee members and that process was bypassed for the Jan 6 committee (Nancy Pelosi hand picked the two GOP participants). The number of GOP participants was also greatly reduced. Normally in a committee this size the majority party would have had 5 representatives and the minority party would have had 4 (not 7 to 2). A principled person would refuse to participate in committee made under these conditions. It is committee that can claim bi-partisan participation when in reality is was completely partisan. Even is all conclusions from the committee are completely accurate, the process taints the outcome.


    Congress has a long history of bipartisan investigatory and select committees. Many were formed during deep political rifts — yet, for 230 years, Congress maintained the need for bipartisan membership. That was the case with the Watergate committees, the House Committee on Assassinations, the Special Committee to Investigate the National Defense Program, the House Select Committee to Investigate Covert Arms Transactions and other investigations. It would have been easy to stack the decks and limit the members by party on each of those committees, but past congressional leaders understood that the credibility of such investigations required balance, including opposing views..
    https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciar...wn-legitimacy/

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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    We dont need Liz Cheney to be a democrat. There is nothing wrong with a truly principled conservative. We used to have a bunch of them in the house and the senate. Alan Simpson, Orrin Hatch come to mind. I rarely agreed with them but they had principles and they stuck to them even when they came to a compromise with the other side. Thats what a healthy democracy looks like.
    Okay. Let ‘em come back on a rebound after we lefties make some solid progress. Then we can balance each other dynamically, everyone gets to contribute, but first, that old pendulum needs to be swung back this way, past the middle, and with some force and momentum. The real conservatives have been hijacked and swung us too far the other way for too long.
    Last edited by Jim Mahan; 08-17-2022 at 12:02 PM.
    Speak softly and carry a mouthful of marbles.

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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Mahan View Post
    Okay. Let ‘em come back on a rebound after we lefties make some solid progress. Then we can balance each other dynamically, everyone gets to contribute, but first, that old pendulum needs to be swung back this way, past the middle, and with some force and momentum. The real conservatives have been hijacked and swung us too far the other way for too long.
    So the ends justify the means?

  4. #39
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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Mahan View Post
    Okay. Let ‘em come back on a rebound after we lefties make some solid progress. Then we can balance each other dynamically, everyone gets to contribute, but first, that old pendulum needs to be swung back this way, past the middle, and with some force and momentum. The real conservatives have been hijacked and swung us too far the other way for too long.

    Doesn't this just widen the gap? The GOP is likely to win the house in the midterms. They are also likely to form a Hunter Biden Laptop committee to see if there was any influence peddling while Biden was Vice President and/or President. What if the GOP leadership adopts the same practices as Pelosi. The committee is completely partisan and the minority has no input into their representation? Is that going to make things better or worse?

    What if there is an impeachment of Biden? How will that be handled?

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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    What if the GOP leadership adopts the same practices as Pelosi. The committee is completely partisan and the minority has no input into their representation?
    This is, not to lean on it too hard, totally and completely false. The choice to have few Republicans on the panel was made by the House Republican leadership. They tried to appoint members who were complicit in the attempted coup. When the Democrats wouldn't put up with that, they went off and sulked. If you can't understand that 'completely partisan' is nothing more than propaganda, you aren't as bright as I thought.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    What if the GOP leadership adopts the same practices as Pelosi. The committee is completely partisan and the minority has no input into their representation??
    where do you get your 'news'?
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  7. #42
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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    I'm not sure that she is a "truly principled conservative". Trump is her white whale and she will strike at it from hell's heart. Some, myself included, would argue that she agreed to be on a committee where its composition defied all previous practices. The minority party has always picked its committee members and that process was bypassed for the Jan 6 committee (Nancy Pelosi hand picked the two GOP participants). The number of GOP participants was also greatly reduced. Normally in a committee this size the majority party would have had 5 representatives and the minority party would have had 4 (not 7 to 2). A principled person would refuse to participate in committee made under these conditions. It is committee that can claim bi-partisan participation when in reality is was completely partisan. Even is all conclusions from the committee are completely accurate, the process taints the outcome.



    https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciar...wn-legitimacy/
    The usual slanted claptrap from the right. Plausible at first glance, but incorrect at the core.

    When they cite precedent for their objections to rejecting two R committee members, they ignore their parties own unprecedented actions, and willingness to go to any lengths in the pursuit of power. Regardless to the toll on our Republic. They ignore the unprecedented nature of the Jan. 6 uprising. Of a U.S. president setting such a thing in motion and refusing to call it off. And they ignore the fact that the two rejected candidates weren't interested in sitting on the committee and doing the work required to achieve a 'fair & balanced' outcome... they were only interested in sabotaging the proceeding.

    Also ignored was McCarthy's unilateral decision to take his ball and go home. To withdraw his nominations of the rest of the R candidates for committee membership as an attempted power play. One of the reasons the RWW's are so exercised about the outcome is that Pelosi called his bluff, the committee moved forward without the impediments they tried to create, and they are doing good work. The R's aren't enjoying the outcome, yet they helped make it possible by leaving the field clear for those who did want to do the work.

    Another fail by the 'because we can' party who really didn't like Pelosi adopting their 'because we can' tactics. If they had any interest in the integrity and fairness of the investigation... it never would have gotten to the point where Pelosi had to put her foot down.

    As it turned out, the committee didn't really need the R's on board to 'keep them honest' and ensure a rigorous investigation & fair outcome. But they could have had such members if they had wished. Just not the bomb-throwers they wished to install to much things up.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  8. #43
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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    who here sent her campaign money because she did her job and the folks running against her are scary dangerous?

    perhaps we do like monsters...
    Without friends none of this is possible.

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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    We switched our voter registration to vote for Cheney in the primary, while realizing she'd get swamped.

    Wyoming went over 70% for He Who Must Not Be Named.



  10. #45
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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    yeah - this is a thread drift.

    Is that not the issue and what the MAGA Republican party has taken up? from 225 million in 1976 to 330 million today. 50 million or more newly arriving since 1980 non white often non christians changing the face of America, impacting the culture, causing rapid development of open space, greater demands of resources which includes housing costs and access to assistance and often arriving with issues and problems that were not here or recognized before. No doubt that most folks that are arriving had contributed greatly but there are many who are damaged, come from societies that were or are broken which has made them broken and could be receiving perceived benefits and preferential treatment while others are sold out, trashed out or forgotten.
    Without immigration, the USA would have negative population growth. Current overall fertility rate in the USA is 1.64 lifetime children per woman ó the replacement rate is 2.10 children per woman. All those "non-white often non-christian" immigrants[1] whose work and cash infusion into FICA are who are what is saving the bacon of baby boomer retirees.

    [1] What does race or religion have to do with being an American? Inquiring minds want to know. The notion of what is an "American" has changed over the life of this country. In the 18th century, we were primarily English. Starting in the mid-19th century, we became primarily German (the largest single group of immigrants to this country being Germans, primarily running to escape the draft.) And so on over the decades, each successive wave changing American culture for the better, broadening it and widening it.

    Maggie Holland put it best in her song A Place Called England (just as appropriate to the USA):

    Come all you at home with freedom, whatever the land that gave you birth,
    There's room for you, both root and branch, as long as you love the English earth.
    Room for vole and room for orchid, room for all to grow and thrive:
    Just less room for the fat landowner on his ar$e in his four-wheel drive.

    For England is not flag or Empire, it is not money and it is not blood.
    It's limestone gorge and granite fell, it's Wealden clay and Severn mud,
    It's blackbird singing from the May tree, lark ascending through the scales,
    Robin watching from your spade and English earth beneath your nails.

    Here's two cheers for a place called England, sore abused but not yet dead;
    A Mr Harding sort of England hanging in there by a thread.
    So here's two cheers for the crazy diggers, now their hour shall come around;
    We shall plant the seed they saved us, common wealth and common ground.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. ó P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    The usual slanted claptrap from the right. Plausible at first glance, but incorrect at the core.

    When they cite precedent for their objections to rejecting two R committee members, they ignore their parties own unprecedented actions, and willingness to go to any lengths in the pursuit of power. Regardless to the toll on our Republic. They ignore the unprecedented nature of the Jan. 6 uprising. Of a U.S. president setting such a thing in motion and refusing to call it off. And they ignore the fact that the two rejected candidates weren't interested in sitting on the committee and doing the work required to achieve a 'fair & balanced' outcome... they were only interested in sabotaging the proceeding.

    Also ignored was McCarthy's unilateral decision to take his ball and go home. To withdraw his nominations of the rest of the R candidates for committee membership as an attempted power play. One of the reasons the RWW's are so exercised about the outcome is that Pelosi called his bluff, the committee moved forward without the impediments they tried to create, and they are doing good work. The R's aren't enjoying the outcome, yet they helped make it possible by leaving the field clear for those who did want to do the work.

    Another fail by the 'because we can' party who really didn't like Pelosi adopting their 'because we can' tactics. If they had any interest in the integrity and fairness of the investigation... it never would have gotten to the point where Pelosi had to put her foot down.

    As it turned out, the committee didn't really need the R's on board to 'keep them honest' and ensure a rigorous investigation & fair outcome. But they could have had such members if they had wished. Just not the bomb-throwers they wished to install to much things up.
    Another factless rant from a left wing looney.

    Hard to believe you accuse me of slanted claptrap. Also hard to believe that you see Pelosi as fair and balanced - she is as partisan as it gets. How about you provide a source that says I was wrong. Whenever someone calls your bluff you fold like a cheap suit.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    I wonder. From my perspective - that critique addresses you, exactly.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    I wonder. From my perspective - that critique addresses you, exactly.
    Good for you George. I can always count on you. Bless your heart

  14. #49
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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    Ain't you special!
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    This is, not to lean on it too hard, totally and completely false. The choice to have few Republicans on the panel was made by the House Republican leadership. They tried to appoint members who were complicit in the attempted coup. When the Democrats wouldn't put up with that, they went off and sulked. If you can't understand that 'completely partisan' is nothing more than propaganda, you aren't as bright as I thought.
    OK, so if it is not partisan why didn't Pelosi appoint 4 members of the GOP or are you saying all but 2 were "complicit".

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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    perhaps you forgot..... McCarthy refused to name anyone after his first malcontents were refused.

    Guess he showed her!
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    perhaps you forgot..... McCarthy refused to name anyone after his first malcontents were refused.

    Guess he showed her!
    He could have had five. She offered him the chance to have the remaining 3, plus 2 more (non bomb-throwing/complicit) alternatives to the 2 rejected. He chose to nominate no one, including the 3 she'd already accepted.

    He chose.

    And dingleberries are trying to defend his petulance? Because they're miffed that it backfired? Claptrap.
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  18. #53
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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    He could have had five. She offered him the chance to have the remaining 3, plus 2 more (non bomb-throwing/complicit) alternatives to the 2 rejected. He chose to nominate no one, including the 3 she'd already accepted.
    Source?

  19. #54
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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    Hehehe.... spoon fed much?
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Hehehe.... spoon fed much?
    Oh so then you know the source? Let's see how much you do know. Source?........................................... ......................................I thought so.

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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    Boatbum, this is not even a little bit obscure. The history of how the committee was constituted is common knowledge. You can start here with Wikipedia, the section entitled 'History'.

    If you have an objection to how they're doing their work, fine, bring it up. But 'THEY'RE PARTISAN!!' is propaganda, an attempt to distract from the issue at hand, which is that Mr Trump and his supporters attempted to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election by force.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 08-17-2022 at 03:43 PM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Boatbum, this is not even a little bit obscure. The history of how the committee was constituted is common knowledge. You can start here with Wikipedia, the section entitled 'History'.

    If you have an objection to how they're doing their work, fine, bring it up. But 'THEY'RE PARTISAN!!' is propaganda, an attempt to distract from the issue at hand, which is that Mr Trump and his supporters attempted to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election by force.
    Accepted. I have to get dinner and start my evening and don’t want to drop a reply hear only to leave for the night. The Capitol riot was a travesty. I’ll leave it there. Have a good night

  24. #59
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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    What is truly great about Bologna is because its a college town and because of its intimate experience with fascism it is radically left. I mean Umberto Eco was Emeritus professor at the University of Bologna, where he taught for much of his life. In the 21st century, he has continued to gain recognition for his 1995 essay "Ur-Fascism", where Eco lists fourteen general properties he believes comprise fascist ideologies.

    So the city is a bastion of ultra liberal dar I say ANTIFA
    ideologies as I said in my ciao thread there are a lot of graffiti everywhere, but upon closer inspection its a lot of anti right. Progressive liberal and ANTIFA graffiti.

    We even went to a cafe recommended by our AirBnB hostess
    Francesca. Piazza Maggiore: get in "La Linea for a 80 cent coffee in a "social left oriented bar" (password is bellaciao!)

    Oh and everyone EVERYONE hates T***p
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    where do you get your 'news'?
    Did he respond?

  26. #61
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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    Another factless rant from a left wing looney.

    Hard to believe you accuse me of slanted claptrap. Also hard to believe that you see Pelosi as fair and balanced - she is as partisan as it gets. How about you provide a source that says I was wrong. Whenever someone calls your bluff you fold like a cheap suit.
    Why is it hard to believe? His words are right in front of you.
    Last edited by LeeG; 08-17-2022 at 05:11 PM.

  27. #62
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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    It's a, perhaps not disenguous, deflection. Boatbum is finding it hard to believe, not the referenced accusation of slanted claptrap, but the actual topic and the facts thereof. Joining the fray on his side precludes it. Because the cost is disassociating with the faction that won't allow a liberal or a D to have a valid account of the facts or a worthy opinion. The side that is all about lockstep and winning at all costs.

    Think of the reward of being able to lay that aside to be honest about the whole the thing. Hard to believe or hard to swallow? I don't mean this as a personal attack or disparagement but as a challenge, not to refute the argument from the left, but to be open to it. [Is it possible that I've been believing and supporting a wrong set of ideas?] Being a rightie is at least half about being loyal and standing tough no matter what, consistent with that win-at-all-costs position. Well so is being leftie, come to think of it. The difference, though, is that—strike up the band for the old aphorism—reality has a liberal bias.
    Speak softly and carry a mouthful of marbles.

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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    .
    Boatbum can thank Kevin McCarthy. Even Trump has criticized McCarthy for pouting and refusing to name 2 other Republican congress critters to the committee. So unlike Boatbum, Trump is aware of what went on. As for sources: Google is your friend. Do your own homework.

    Boatbum's posts remind me of the study that indicated people who rely on FoxNews for their information are less knowledgeable than those who watch no TV/Cable news at all.
    "I'll tell you why [religion's] not a scam. In my opinion, all right? Tide goes in, tide goes out. Never a miscommunication. You can't explain that."Bill O'Reilly

  29. #64
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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    Quick question: is this Boatbum the same as the former botebum?

    Douglas Gilluley?

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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    Quick question: is this Boatbum the same as the former botebum?

    Douglas Gilluley?
    Nope... not in the slightest. I know, because I'm still in touch with Douglas. And he's both more bombastic and less ignorant than the current dingbat. And because I had to correct him also... a few times in the past. He makes an attempt to get his facts straight before he mouths off. And when someone challenges his comments, he regards it as an opportunity to find out what is what is correct... not who is correct. And not as an opportunity to build up his Motivated Reasoning skills, or his 'I'm offended' skills. Unlike the current dinglebat.
    Last edited by David G; 08-17-2022 at 08:46 PM.
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  31. #66

    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    Quick question: is this Boatbum the same as the former botebum?

    Douglas Gilluley?
    No. Completely different individuals.

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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    Good-O! Thanks for the clarification.

  33. #68
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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    Liz Cheney is already raising money for her next effort


    While Liz Cheney lost among Wyoming voters, one contest where she emerged victorious was the money race against her Trump-endorsed opponent.

    According to the most recent filings, Cheney raised over $15 million for her campaign versus $4.4 million for Harriet Hageman. The bigger bankroll didnít help her much on Tuesday, however, with Hageman decisively winning by nearly 40 percentage points.

    But Cheney responded to her widely-expected defeat with a quick pivot. She launched a new political group for herself aimed at a possible run for president and, flush with cash, the new group's website was up and accepting donations by Wednesday morning.

    https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/l...191415830.html
    David G
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    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  34. #69
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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    My wife and I changed our voter registration to vote for her in the Republican primary, to no effect.

    Living in Wyoming and taking part in politics and public affairs, I've met Liz Cheney several times and spoken briefly. When the university named a center for her father, I joined a demonstration in protest.

    I wouldn't contribute to her campaign or vote for her as president because her stance is overall much farther to the right than I can accept.

  35. #70
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    Default Re: Liz Cheney , You go girl!!!

    When there is an overload of Ideology over common sense together with full on group think political parties will loose touch with the real climate of the electorate. Recent experience in Australia, especially at the state level has seen successive conservative governments soundly defeated with historic loses. With the high temperature of vitriol amongst conservatives there is a real posibility that even with what happened in Wyoming there could be significant swings against the Republicans. This was a republican vote and every vote she got is an indication of the number of republicans who supported a candidate who stood for holding Trump to account. If a good percentage of that translated to the vote for the Presidential election then it spells big trouble for Trump as he has never won by much of a margin even with the dirty tricks of 2016 Cambridge Analytica fiasco.
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci.

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