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Thread: Finally, it looks like a boat

  1. #1
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    Default Finally, it looks like a boat

    Do you know the sense of exhilaration that comes when your project finally looks like a boat. I am sure that many of you do. Planning, gathering the components, shaping "sticks" and combining them to produce frames, stem, planking, etc. Then set up: adding frames to a keel, defining chine and sheer, always touch up and details, starting to plank that "skeleton", until.... until it looks like a boat. I achieved that status this morning.

    I didn't start with a kit or a plan, but with a vision in my head. No guidance: each step had to be thought out beforehand. But, if I do that while lying in bed at night, sleep is harder to achieve. Better to do it in the morning before arising. What kind of a boat? My original inspiration was the Adirondack guide boat, but I have made enough modifications that title won't fit anymore. Some kind of skiff. I'll post some photos to get your opinion. Still a lot of work ahead; major of which is turning the hull over to sand/fill/sand until it is ready to paint.

    There are no fastenings in this hull beyond epoxy (and Titebond in some minor areas). The hull was designed mathematically; thus, no lofting or strongback required. That made it easier to move or tip the hull as needed.
    DSC04307.jpgDSC04309.jpgDSC04310.jpg

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    Very nice!
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    That's a beauty!

    Tom
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    Gorgeous sheerline!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh MacD View Post
    Gorgeous sheerline!
    What I discovered is that increasing the "rocker" to that sheerline (as well as the major chine) reduces the stress concentration in the forefoot (spreads the plank "twist" over a greater area) and makes it easier to plank that area. Functional as well as aesthetic. The forefoot is usually the hardest area (most clamping pressure) to get planks to conform to. This was easy.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    I remember that day on my first build. It was molds, then parts, a skeleton and Presto! A boat appeared.
    Interesting observation on the stress.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    yes it looks like a boat, it looks like a boat that might be on a coffee mug, a boat on a coffee mug the does not look quite right.

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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    It has always been a great feeling when one of my builds goes from a pile of wood to something that can be called a boat.

    Your stern is somewhat non-kosher but that underwater aft section just might give added buoyancy to the stern, something lacking in those types of boats.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
    Skiing is the next best thing to having wings.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    Looks good to me Wayne but what do I know? I'll be glad to help flip it if you can wait til September.

    Gary

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    JimD, WI-Tom, and Hugh, Thank you for the compliments.
    Rich Jones, Below the waterline, this is a double-ended hull. Thus, the exit of the waterline is as fine as the bow entry. It seems to work in many double-ended designs (and does add buoyancy).
    wizbang 13, "the does not look quite right." Can you be more specific?
    Gary, Although heavier than a slenderer hull, it is still light enough that I have no trouble turning it over by myself. See you in Sept.

    Every time I build a boat, through every phase I question the choices I made for every dimension and feature. Perfect boat? Generally, no such thing. It all depends on the specific use.

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    Should I have made it longer? increased the freeboard? Narrowed the plank keel? Heavier scantlings? Reduced deadrise? Incorporated fixed seating? Narrower planking? Molds instead of frames?
    And still more choices ahead.... then I will start over with another design for a different set of conditions. Creativity, mental stimulation, plus physical exercise. What could be better? All for the cost of a few pieces of wood.

    developable-surface-boat-designs.blogspot.com

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    I see no flat place on the bottom, she seems to be deep and soft all the way through. may be super cranky

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    I see no flat place on the bottom, she seems to be deep and soft all the way through. may be super cranky
    Interesting, the plank keel (not shown) is 10 1/2 inches wide. A previous poster called the hull a "flat-bottomed" boat. I was aiming for about a 9-inch wide keel but found this wider board that I just couldn't resist. Thanks for your comment.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    Quote Originally Posted by W Grabow View Post
    Interesting, the plank keel (not shown) is 10 1/2 inches wide. A previous poster called the hull a "flat-bottomed" boat. I was aiming for about a 9-inch wide keel but found this wider board that I just couldn't resist. Thanks for your comment.
    It does look like a lot of deadrise, though--a very soft bilge. Especially the stern view.

    Tom
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    It does look like a lot of deadrise, though--a very soft bilge. Especially the stern view.

    Tom
    Camera angle distortion. Look at the view from above, the rise of floor is not excessive.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    Perhaps I should explain the design concept for this skiff. A low seating position helps provide a low center of gravity (CG). Your butt can't fit into a narrow "V" bottom: thus, a plank keel is appropriate, and a seat just a few inches above it will get you as low as you can go. Width of the plank to be determined by the 'mass of the ass' to some extent (kidding). A straight plank keel aids in tracking and reduces draft. Initial deadrise is fairly steep, 18 degrees, similar to the deadrise on a guide boat, resulting in a narrow waterline, enhancing speed when rowing. The hull will be initially tender, but you quickly discover that shifting your body (like riding a bicycle) provides balance. Generous flare above the waterline provides significant secondary stability, encouraging the hull back to upright, so that you do not have to practice the Eskimo Roll. Added load improves stability. Height of the sheer must be sufficient to provide space on the return oar stroke for the oar handles to pass above your legs. A higher seat position would require increasing sheer height, increasing hull weight and windage.
    The hull width is 6-7 inches greater than for a guide boat, reducing the need for counter balanced oars and a crosshanded rowing technique. The sacrifice is in increased weight, but this boat is not planned for portaging. From the water's point of view, this is a double-ended hull. The lowest point on the transom is 5.4 inches above the keel, not immersed during average use. I compromised on the hull length (13' 5"); a longer hull would have a higher top speed. It would also be heavier and more difficult to transport and store.

    This hull is the evolution of three previous hulls. We will see if I am right when it gets in the water.

    DSC04293.jpg

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    Quote Originally Posted by W Grabow View Post
    Perhaps I should explain the design concept for this skiff. A low seating position helps provide a low center of gravity (CG). Your butt can't fit into a narrow "V" bottom: thus, a plank keel is appropriate, and a seat just a few inches above it will get you as low as you can go. Width of the plank to be determined by the 'mass of the ass' to some extent (kidding). A straight plank keel aids in tracking and reduces draft. Initial deadrise is fairly steep, 18 degrees, similar to the deadrise on a guide boat, resulting in a narrow waterline, enhancing speed when rowing. The hull will be initially tender, but you quickly discover that shifting your body (like riding a bicycle) provides balance. Generous flare above the waterline provides significant secondary stability, encouraging the hull back to upright, so that you do not have to practice the Eskimo Roll. Added load improves stability. Height of the sheer must be sufficient to provide space on the return oar stroke for the oar handles to pass above your legs. A higher seat position would require increasing sheer height, increasing hull weight and windage.
    The hull width is 6-7 inches greater than for a guide boat, reducing the need for counter balanced oars and a crosshanded rowing technique. The sacrifice is in increased weight, but this boat is not planned for portaging. From the water's point of view, this is a double-ended hull. The lowest point on the transom is 5.4 inches above the keel, not immersed during average use. I compromised on the hull length (13' 5"); a longer hull would have a higher top speed. It would also be heavier and more difficult to transport and store.

    This hull is the evolution of three previous hulls. We will see if I am right when it gets in the water.

    DSC04293.jpg
    How does the thwart height compare with a guide boat?
    Rowing with your legs straight is not good if the thwart is too low..
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    How does the thwart height compare with a guide boat?
    Rowing with your legs straight is not good if the thwart is too low..
    Good observation. I have WoodenBoat's May/June 1996 edition "Evolution of the Adirondack Guideboat" in front of me, but it doesn't give any precise figures. From a diagram and photos, I would estimate that the rowing seat was 4-6 inches above the bottom. The passenger seat would be lower. Guideboats had slightly lower sheer than I am incorporating; again, estimating at 12-14 inches versus my skiff sheer height will be 15 inches minimum. I'll keep your advice in mind when installing seats.

    On the original guideboats, the bottom plank was 7-8 inches wide, overall length most commonly 16-17 feet, and they were said to be "cranky" but fast. Early examples tended to have a transom similar to what I have done; later examples were double-ended.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    W Grabow

    I like your version on this boat. It looks like a good balance of stability and performance. Thank you for posting the latest pictures to illustrate. I applaud you for experimenting in full size, I don't completely know why there was negative comments to the stern view image.
    "Yeah, well, that's just, like your opinion man"
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  20. #20
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    I sit on the bottom of my duck punt and my pink skiff when I row them. With a proper spot to brace my feet, which I have, both boats just fine. And, I have a notoriously wonky back, so I can’t do bad ergonomics for long.

    I sit on the sole boards on a cushion.

    Of course, I’m a bit tall, and both boats are fairly low sided, but it really works very well. For me.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    amish rob: "I sit on the bottom of my duck punt and my pink skiff when I row them. With a proper spot to brace my feet, which I have, both boats just fine."

    Perhaps it is the foot brace, which I included in all the previous boats, which has prevented me from having leg problems. Never thought much about it but will consider the situation again when I build the seating for this boat.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    I took a good look at the pictures and must admit I really like your boat.
    I think it's a very interesting experiment and I'm looking forward to your experiences when the boat is launched.
    Well done!

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    Quote Originally Posted by W Grabow View Post
    amish rob: "I sit on the bottom of my duck punt and my pink skiff when I row them. With a proper spot to brace my feet, which I have, both boats just fine."

    Perhaps it is the foot brace, which I included in all the previous boats, which has prevented me from having leg problems. Never thought much about it but will consider the situation again when I build the seating for this boat.
    Yes, a foot brace is a must, even if it is just a couple of "D" shaped holes for your heels in the floor boards. However, you may want a temporary, adjustable foot rest, as the relationship between your feet, your botty, and the oarlocks will need to be varied until everything is set.
    Make a seat pad with the option of raising it on packing until you find the comfortable height, then consider putting in a permanent thwart if you need it.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  24. #24
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    It's funny; in all my years of messing about in small boats, including a lot of rowing, I've never rowed a boat with foot braces. I guess when I finish mine, I'll have to put some study into it.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    Quote Originally Posted by MushCreek View Post
    It's funny; in all my years of messing about in small boats, including a lot of rowing, I've never rowed a boat with foot braces. I guess when I finish mine, I'll have to put some study into it.
    You can develop more power and sit more securely when your feet are not sliding about.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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  26. #26
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    If you row with foot braces then get in a boat without them you will miss them greatly

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    As I plan it, seats are built as movable separate units which are supported by and notched into the frames. In my double-ended hulls, the rower sits centrally (oarlocks are offset toward one end) for one occupant and shifts toward the other end for two occupants. Either end can serve as the bow.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    Making progress. This is what the Epifanes Blue/Gray looks like. The interior needs another coat of varnish; then the small fore and aft decks get bonded in place. Those decks will get painted white. They are small surfaces, so the white should serve as an accent.
    DSC04313.jpg

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    Looking really nice. An interesting color as well.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    I do like that color. It's coming together very nicely.
    -Dave

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    Good luck with all Wayne.

    Gary

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Davis View Post
    Good luck with all Wayne.

    Gary
    Sorry, I didn't think to look at "notifications" in a timely manner. I mistakenly thought you had my phone number &/or email and was thinking 'see you in Sept.'. Now Dawn and I are headed out to Europe for a month; activity on the boat will cease for a while. Dawn (kiddingly) says that she will personally deliver a boat to you. At our 7500' altitude, winter will be here by the time we get back.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    We'll be back down at Christmas - maybe for the last time. Renee's family lodge in Estes Park is for sale, and a sale seems imminent.

    I hope y'all enjoy your trip. We're taking our kids and grandkids to Italy in November but not for a month.

    I'll touch base in December.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: Finally, it looks like a boat

    DSC04367.jpgDSC04365.jpg

    All that is left is to build the seating. For the rower, a foot brace will be included.

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