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Thread: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

  1. #1
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    Default Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Estimated 52 meters of water world wide.

    If for no other reason we should be taking reduction of our industrial emissions seriously. And water temperatures are far more important to ice melt than air….
    but the warm westerly systems that used to bring southern Australia's weather now blow on the antarctic ice……….
    https://www.themandarin.com.au/19660...rise-concerns/

    I have no confidence at all that we'll manage that, and again will have to adapt…… and what an adaption that will be.

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    The recent climate legislation in Oz and the US are good first steps. But if that ice sheet goes, the consequences will be hard to ignore.





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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    I'd better hurry up and get my boat finished and back in the briny!!
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci.

    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question.

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    52 meters….Now my mate down the hill will know where to build his jetty…………………...
    Last edited by skuthorp; 08-11-2022 at 03:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Climate migration here we come

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    It was recently determined that the speed of the globe on its axis is speeding up. Reason: Ice melting.
    "Wherever there is a channel for water, there is a road for the canoe. " - Thoreau

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    The recent climate legislation in Oz and the US are good first steps. But if that ice sheet goes, the consequences will be hard to ignore.




    So its melting will raise sea level by 250 feet? That's how far the water is from current sea level to lady liberty's nose

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    I'm working on the repair of one of our systems to go take measurements of that sheet in Antarctica.

    When I returned from my vacation in the UK, I was approached by one of my bosses about the weather there. He said he'd heard from several researchers who are very concerned that the pace of climate change is much more rapid than anticipated. The average temperatures reached in the past few weeks in the UK are temperatures that they were not predicted to have for another 40 years. Also, parts of the country appear to be in severe drought - not a natural state for a normally lush, green island.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    We are currently 130 meters above the historical minimum sea level, and about 200 meters (or more) below the historical maximum sea level. The globe has been through these cycles before, and I'm sure the globe will be just fine. We, however, are toast.

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Imagine the uproar when those populations start migrating to livable climes. This nation, and big pieces of continental Europe, are already up in arms about invasions by people from unlivable places.

    Climate change problems are much bigger than 10 feet of sea level rise with the melting of the antarctic glaciers.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    I think that 52 meters is a a few centuries away.

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    Imagine the uproar when those populations start migrating to livable climes. This nation, and big pieces of continental Europe, are already up in arms about invasions by people from unlivable places.

    Climate change problems are much bigger than 10 feet of sea level rise with the melting of the antarctic glaciers.
    See, TFG was prescient about the Chinese Hoax, the wall was needed after all!

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    I think that 52 meters is a a few centuries away.
    Probably so. But when it gets to that level we will be long gone.

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    I think that 52 meters is a a few centuries away.
    I'm not so certain that we have that long.

    This was from a little over a year ago.

    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...of-antarctica/
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Quote Originally Posted by TerryLL View Post
    Probably so. But when it gets to that level we will be long gone.
    You and I will. Some nations will. And probably a human and domesticated flora and fauna population that is much smaller.

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    I'm working on the repair of one of our systems to go take measurements of that sheet in Antarctica.

    When I returned from my vacation in the UK, I was approached by one of my bosses about the weather there. He said he'd heard from several researchers who are very concerned that the pace of climate change is much more rapid than anticipated.
    What sort of gear?

    I worked designing and building gear that was used on the Greenland Ice Cap to gage meltwater volume in stream channels on the ice.



    The blue float carries an acoustic Doppler current profiler, which captures precise data on channel flow. Here's a plot of a cross-section.


    Lacking the shear (friction) of rocks, gravel, etc. these ice channels flow faster throughout and discharge more water. They can't be waded, of course, hence the need for specialized equipment to measure flows. Most streams on the ice sheet fall into moulins, large cracks, and drain to the bottom of the sheet, melting and lubricating the base, and allowing faster movement toward the sea.


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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    What sort of gear?

    I worked designing and building gear that was used on the Greenland Ice Cap to gage meltwater volume in stream channels on the ice.



    The blue float carries an acoustic Doppler current profiler, which captures precise data on channel flow. Here's a plot of a cross-section.


    Lacking the shear (friction) of rocks, gravel, etc. these ice channels flow faster throughout and discharge more water. They can't be waded, of course, hence the need for specialized equipment to measure flows. Most streams on the ice sheet fall into moulins, large cracks, and drain to the bottom of the sheet, melting and lubricating the base, and allowing faster movement toward the sea.

    We make both RADAR systems and scatterometers which are basically very sensitive RADAR systems that are intended for close observation of the ice. It gives the researchers very detailed information about the structure of the ice in terms of crystal size, melt layers - stuff like that. As your picture shows, you can see that the researchers are standing on a piece of ice/snow near the helicopter. You can notice that the ice has layers of different structure. You can also see that the ice has color and may appear "dirty". Some of this is from natural contaminants - dust, algae, etc. - and some of it is particulate from man-made sources - often carbon-based compounds from the burning of fossil fuels. Knowing the structure and depth, and relative make-up of the particulate that isn't necessarily visible to the naked eye often tells researchers how the melt is happening and the rate of melt.

    We also make cloud and particulate sensing RADAR systems.

    For the MOSAiC expedition last year, we had customers - both government and universities - who deployed 8 of our systems on the ice at the North Pole - Cloud Radar, Scatterometers, Radiometers, and airborne particulate sensors.

    We have one particular customer - a Canadian University - that has Scatterometers in a variety of frequencies at a site where they do research - with all of the systems looking at the same piece of ice at the moment. They're doing this to be able to see the strengths of the various systems for various applications. What they learn is often utilized by other universities to better do applied research in the field.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    How does your Doppler set up work? Recording the latency of return signal between TX and RX?

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    P p p Point. By the way. Link says 5 Point 1 M potential rise.

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    Imagine the uproar when those populations start migrating to livable climes. This nation, and big pieces of continental Europe, are already up in arms about invasions by people from unlivable places.

    Climate change problems are much bigger than 10 feet of sea level rise with the melting of the antarctic glaciers.
    It's already happening. Americans are moving to the hottest, driest, lowest parts of the country in anticipation of them becoming even hotter, dryer, and under water.

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    It's already happening. Americans are moving to the hottest, driest, lowest parts of the country in anticipation of them becoming even hotter, dryer, and under water.
    Happened in Syria and Central America when drought wiped out a lot of subsistence farmers.

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Happened in Syria and Central America when drought wiped out a lot of subsistence farmers.
    They moved from drought to worse??

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan McCosh View Post
    They moved from drought to worse??
    Sure, Syrian farmers moved to urban areas and a civil war ensued. Central Americans traveled to Texas.

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Sure, Syrian farmers moved to urban areas and a civil war ensued. Central Americans traveled to Texas.
    And Texans are moving to the Inland Northwest in droves.

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Living about 19 feet above sea level and in a region that has the North Sea encroaching,I ought to be concerned.Our Dutch neighbours probably have more reasons to be concerned,but they do have a government that makes coastal defence a priority.Our bureaucrats espouse a policy of managed retreat but they aren't doing much managing while the coastline retreats at it's own swift pace.

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Down my way large housing developments are being approved on ex-salt marsh land land just a meter or so above present high tide levels.

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    So its melting will raise sea level by 250 feet? That's how far the water is from current sea level to lady liberty's nose

    I thought in perspective that those sharks where rather large!!
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci.

    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question.

    "Freighters on the nod on the surface of the bay, One of these days we're going to sail away"
    Bruce Cockburn

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Estimated 52 meters of water world wide.

    https://www.themandarin.com.au/19660...rise-concerns/
    Since 52 metres equals 171 feet, that estimate seemed a bit off. So I checked a couple sources: it ought to be 5.2 metres or 17.06 feet.

    For want of a decimal, the planet was lost.

    Sh*t happens. Remember the unit conversion goof that wrecked the Mars landing in 1999?

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/spa...probe-in-1999/

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoez View Post
    We make both RADAR systems and scatterometers which are basically very sensitive RADAR systems that are intended for close observation of the ice. It gives the researchers very detailed information about the structure of the ice in terms of crystal size, melt layers - stuff like that.
    Cool! I love science stuff. Years ago, I worked on a project to place scanning spectradiometers at two spots in Antarctica and one in southern Chile to measure the ozone hole. Two brothers who had been building satellite instrument packages started a company. Gary did the machining, wiring, and fabrication. Chuck wrote the software. They hired me to troubleshoot the assembly (which I did in a walk-in freezer) and write manuals for the installation and operation. I figured out that the quartz glass domes for the scanning head would frost up badly, so Gary built some really tiny, beautiful defrosters with fans. The computers were the first laptops I'd ever seen, made by GridCase.




    Also worked on coring and mapping glaciers in the Wind River Range, Wyoming, to assess the loss of volume and rate of recession. In the course of which, we collected an extinct species of locust from a varve surface.
    Last edited by Chip-skiff; 08-11-2022 at 05:34 PM.

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    How does your Doppler set up work? Recording the latency of return signal between TX and RX?
    I don't recall, if I ever knew. It's a SonTek River Surveyor, c. 2010. I mostly did the field stuff: hardware, logistics, boat work, and keeping grad students from dying.

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    I don't recall, if I ever knew. It's a SonTek River Surveyor, c. 2010. I mostly did the field stuff: hardware, logistics, boat work, and keeping grad students from dying.

    Ha! That's great! When I worked for Alaska F&G my task on one project was to train the project leader's squeeze how to stay alive on a six-weeks remote project. Not one of my favorite assignments. But she did indeed survive. Barely.

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    I used to know a hydrologist at Woods Hole. They have been scared of Greenland ice melt for quite some time.
    Gerard>
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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Quote Originally Posted by TerryLL View Post
    And Texans are moving to the Inland Northwest in droves.
    I was at the coffee shop today and folks were talking about people from California moving to Columbia (TN) “but I don’t think they’re coming to Hohenwald” I kept my mouth shut.

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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    Cool! I love science stuff. Years ago, I worked on a project to place scanning spectradiometers at two spots in Antarctica and one in southern Chile to measure the ozone hole. Two brothers who had been building satellite instrument packages started a company. Gary did the machining, wiring, and fabrication. Chuck wrote the software. They hired me to troubleshoot the assembly (which I did in a walk-in freezer) and write manuals for the installation and operation. I figured out that the quartz glass domes for the scanning head would frost up badly, so Gary built some really tiny, beautiful defrosters with fans. The computers were the first laptops I'd ever seen, made by GridCase.




    Also worked on coring and mapping glaciers in the Wind River Range, Wyoming, to assess the loss of volume and rate of recession. In the course of which, we collected an extinct species of locust from a varve surface.
    Neat stuff, Chip. You’d probably fit right in with the type of stuff that we do. You’d be a blend of what we do in house and what customers experience in field work - which is always useful for us.

    While I am not allowed to show our stuff without the employer’s permission, I am sure everyone has heard of some of the stuff we do. We have made tornado chasing radar trucks, airborne radar and radiometer systems that are used by a variety of users. Some of our work is known to everyone here by a government agency that reports wind speeds and wave heights with our gear. We’re building an airborne radar system used to study clouds up close from under an airplane wing and even gets used to fight pollution and to make it rain in some locations.

    One of our current projects will be looking at clouds in Antarctica, another is a large six propeller drone with a radiometer slung underneath to study soil moisture and salinity.

    Never a dull moment.

    We don’t have a freezer that big for testing, but an environmental chamber for extreme temperature testing - both hot and cold.
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
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    Default Re: Concern for The East Antarctic Ice Sheet…….

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip-skiff View Post
    Since 52 metres equals 171 feet, that estimate seemed a bit off. So I checked a couple sources: it ought to be 5.2 metres or 17.06 feet.

    For want of a decimal, the planet was lost.

    Sh*t happens. Remember the unit conversion goof that wrecked the Mars landing in 1999?

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/spa...probe-in-1999/
    oh good. I am 35 feet above sea level. The end of my street is about 5 feet above it. I might actually have beachfront before too long!
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