1967 Danish Folkeboot restoration

[millerik]

Hello Friends, I am writing to get your advice on how to proceed with the hull restoration on our 1967 "Folkeboot Junior," a Danish traditional keel boat that is sitting in our driveway on its trailer. I've started scraping the hull to see how things look. Before I start painting or caulking anything, I thought I'd get some advice from trusted sources.

So I had thought I would upload a few pictures but I can't get that to work. Meanwhile, here are some descriptions. Boat is from 1967 and about 19' long overall. All wood 'clinker' or clapboard construction with a lead keel. If you google 'folkeboot' you'll see the larger version of our boat. This was meant to sail the North Sea and the Baltic Sea so it's a sloop keel boat with a 30' mast and 15 square meters of sail area.

The boat has been painted (poorly) topsides and below the waterline. I've seen these boats with black antifouling paint like mine, but also with white and other colors. So I wanted to change from black to white, if only because the paint would absorb less heat from the sun and cause less movement of the wood. I've bought appropriate anti-fouling paint.

There's evidence of poor caulking in the past but no critical rot so far. The largest fissures I'm finding are perhaps up to 1/32" apart from the seams between several clapboard courses which were caulked with what looks like silicone bathtub caulk. All of this has been removed and the hull is ready to be sealed.

I would really like to "dry sail" this boat since it is so nicely portable on its trailer. I'm getting close to "paint time" so please let me know any suggestions! Should I go through the hull with caulking before painting? There's evidence of running aground and some areas of the keel edge (?skeg?) where the wood could be reinforced. There's a brass rail that runs from the bow along the entire edge down to the lead keel. If I do nothing but paint, this area will show cracks but there won't be any water going very far. If I am always dry sailing, and then hauling out after a few days or a week, I was hoping to keep an eye on everything and see how she's doing. In that respect anything I do now, I would want to be delicate enough that I can augment/modify later.

Thanks for any help!

Regards, Erik

[dutchpp]

Hallo Erik,

it's difficult to give advice without seeing the boat. I'm sure you took a look at this site ;
http://www.kdyjunior.de/fotos/
There are some pictures of restorations.
Caulking with sikaflex is what is usually done. Another strategy is to let the planks swell up in the water first and determine if there's still significant leakage after a 2 weeks in the water. During the first few days you probably must pump very regularly, the boat will pick up a lot of water if she has been on shore for a long time.
If the leakage is very local you can try to tighten up some of the clenching nails slightly and/or apply sikaflex or equivalent.

[Hugh MacD]

Hi Erik,
Since it sounds like you're "drysailing" the boat and she won't have a chance to sit in the water and allow the planks to swell I would be more inclined to use a non-hardening caulk. I hope some of the traditional clinker guys come along here as it sounds like you may want to tighten some of the clench nails...one person inside and one outside to snug up the planks a bit. I have done that with some success with riveted lapstrake.

[millerik]

photosIMG_1612.jpgIMG_1614.jpgIMG_1616.jpgIMG_1613.jpg

[millerik]

OK I finally got the upload to work.

I've scraped the hull now and at least there's no rot! I have always wondered if open seams like this could be sealed with 3M 5200 Marine Adhesive. I know this would be non-negotiable afterwards, and I've read lots of warnings not to do this. What kinds of caulk/adhesive are recommended out there? Would Sika flex-522 do this job best? The hull boards don't look very tight anymore and I expect the integrity of the hull should be reinforced. There's a very heavy lead keel at the bottom of the keel, and I don't want that dropping off!

Anyway, thank you again for any recommendations. I appreciate finding the 'folkeboot junior' website as well. Had not seen that before. I'll also read around on this site more, I've just found another restoration of one of the 'big' versions of the Folkeboot. Ours is the 'Junior.'

Thanks again, regards, Erik

[dutchpp]

Nice pictures Erik thank you, the boat seems to be very dry.
Check for rot thoroughly.
I wouldn't put cotton or any other caulking "rope" between the overlapping planks, that usually ruins the watertightness, I would use a flexible sealant. If a seal between planks really looks tight just leave it that way.
Whatever you choice of repair will be I wish you luck.
Bring a lot of pumps and buckets when launching the boat, when I launched my old lapstrake boat 20+ years ago I was a bit shocked by the amount of water that came in after the boat had been on the dry land for a few years. I used only 1 pump and of course it broke down so I had to use buckets, a body building experience.
Viel spass.
The boat will get dry(er) after the first hours of immersion.

[millerik]

Is there a flexible adhesive like 3M 5200 that can be sanded? That 5200 stuff is so great, I've used it for all kinds of other applications (speaker boxes, and home plumbing, marine applications)... If there's a good caulk that can also serve as an adhesive and shore up these loose hull boards, and seal the boat, and let me sand or paint over it, ... that would be perfect. POIFEK!

[dutchpp]

Our posts have crossed I didn't read your post #5.
When I restored my boat in the 90's I used the Sikaflex variety which I believe is now called Sikaflex 291 but you better check that with an qualified dealer or website, I could varnish over it ( it was brown back then), don't use the 5200 for your lapstrake planks please! You can never replace that plank after you've put 5200 on it.
One of the guys on the DJ website replaced his deadwood/keel, it's documented with pics, he made it look not very difficult

[millerik]

Our posts have crossed I didn't read your post #5.
When I restored my boat in the 90's I used the Sikaflex variety which I believe is now called Sikaflex 291 but you better check that with an qualified dealer or website, I could varnish over it ( it was brown back then), don't use the 5200 for your lapstrake planks please! You can never replace that plank after you've put 5200 on it.
One of the guys on the DJ website replaced his deadwood/keel, it's documented with pics, he made it look not very difficult

So I'm leaning towards SikaFlex 291i for the lapstrake boards on the hull, and 5200 for the keel boards. There are significant gaps in the keel and I want that thing to be a solid unit. If I use Sika to caulk the joint between the keel and hull, the boat will still tolerate some movement there and I can let the boards swell overnight and then maintain that seam any time I haul it out. I've heard of people filling the boat with a garden hose as well.

What is the DJ website? I'm trying to find that. I've cleaned up my boat some more but soon I'll need to make some decisions and buy supplies. I am thinking it would be great if I could flip the boat over but I don't want to make things worse for myself. The hull is in great shape and I won't have much to do there. Where the lapstrake hull meets the keel is fairly open by design and I'm suspecting they have intended for caulking to be maintained along the seam between the hull and keel. I pulled some twine out of there when I was cleaning up. So I wouldn't use 5200 for the lapstrake hull but I still am considering casting the keel with 5200. I like the idea of a solid keel when the lead ballast alone weighs probably 400 lbs. The keel boards have separated somewhat and I can see dowels in places. I would never be able to do anything other than replace the keel boards and connect to the ballast so I'm thinking 5200 might work for that. I know the stuff is tenacious but I've had luck before cutting it if I need to. It's not easy but it does give way to a sharp blade.


Thanks again

[millerik]

Here are a few more pictures of the keel and hull. You'll notice the seam between the keel board and the hull, this is where I would expect to use a maintainable / flexible caulk. The keel boards have separated a bit and I don't want to take it apart and rebuild if I can get away with casting the whole keel into a solid unit. I haven't seen any movement but now that I've removed the caulk that was there, the gaps are surprising.

Good news is, I've found no rot.

IMG_1616.jpgIMG_1598.jpg

[millerik]

Here are a few more pictures of the keel and hull. You'll notice the seam between the keel board and the hull, this is where I would expect to use a maintainable / flexible caulk. The keel boards have separated a bit and I don't want to take it apart and rebuild if I can get away with casting the whole keel into a solid unit. I haven't seen any movement but now that I've removed the caulk that was there, the gaps are surprising.

Good news is, I've found no rot.

IMG_1616.jpgIMG_1598.jpg

OK now I keep going back and forth with this plan to restore the boat to hopefully sail this year. If I use SikaFlex 291i on the keel "deadwood" and throughout the hull to shore up the gaps, at least this will be re-negotiable down the line. I was concerned about the keel being structurally sound enough, given the visible gaps between the boards (*up to 1/2" and see-through). I can't see any reason to look for the keel bolts or other, more intrusive correction at this time. And the SikaFlex appears to have adhesive qualities as well. So I'm now leaning towards SikaFlex throughout and not just in the clinker or clapboard seams. If I use this SikaFlex throughout, I will be able to maintain it later and who knows, still possibly redo the keel 'deadwood' with 5200 at a later time. This feels like the fastest way to get the boat back on the water this season. Is there anyone on this forum who would say that using 5200 on the keel only, would be a good plan?

Thanks again, appreciate the help! And if anyone can point me to the 'DJ' website, I'm still looking for other people who have done this before.

Erik

[millerik]

One of the guys on the DJ website replaced his deadwood/keel, it's documented with pics, he made it look not very difficult

I'm trying to find this reference, where's the DJ website? I'll keep looking. Could send a link, or a way to search for this?

[Toxophilite]

Beautiful boat!

[willin woodworks]

Not sure how successfully you can dry sail a clinker boat. Every time you pull it, its going to dry some and the seams are going to open. The constant working of the planks on each other and against the frames is going to play hell with the fasteners and every time you launch it, she's going to leak.
Putting anything harder in the seams than something like slickseam is going to increase the wear and tear on the planks and the fasteners.

[millerik]

Understood, thanks. I do now expect that 'dry sailing' is not realistic in this case. I will work on my first launch to allow time for the boat to swell before getting underway. I may fill the boat with my garden hose a day or two before, and let it tighten up before launching. Once it's tightened up I suppose I could haul out and launch again without too much trouble. I have wild ideas to sail one day down the coast of Croatia and that might involve a few launches over.several weeks, and very little time between time in the water so that should still work out. Theoretically at least. Long way to go before then :-)

[John Meachen]

Understood, thanks. I do now expect that 'dry sailing' is not realistic in this case. I will work on my first launch to allow time for the boat to swell before getting underway. I may fill the boat with my garden hose a day or two before, and let it tighten up before launching. Once it's tightened up I suppose I could haul out and launch again without too much trouble. I have wild ideas to sail one day down the coast of Croatia and that might involve a few launches over.several weeks, and very little time between time in the water so that should still work out. Theoretically at least. Long way to go before then :-)

Filling the boat may not be a good idea,even if adding moisture to the structure is.The boat was never intended to have a great mass of water exerting a force outwards and you could do serious damage.It may be a better idea to line the hull with old towels or blankets and then spray them with water.That way you get to moisten the structure without imposing big loads.