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Thread: Brittney Griner

  1. #141
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    are marc fogel and brittney griner equivalent, really? meh.

    fogel was 60 years old(!) when arrested, carrying a half ounce of marijuana. so much for older and wiser, lol. i am not terribly surprised that his case did not get the traction that griner's has. in his shoes, i would not expect to get the same treatment as a 31 year old ball player carrying some vape sticks.

    but sure, let's work to get his sentence reduced, too. fourteen years is horrendous. get him swapped out, if possible.

  2. #142
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    are marc fogel and brittney griner equivalent, really? meh.
    Griner and Fogel committed virtually identical "crimes." If you want you can play games with the potency of Griner's two vape cartridges versus Fogel's 1/2 ounce of grass, but both are illegal in Russia. Fogel and Griner were arrested under Russian law. Both received "standard due process" under Russian law. Yet the U.S. government classified Griner as "wrongfully detained."

    You can read the executive order issued on July 19th, 2022 explaining the equivalence of wrongful detention and hostage taking.

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-...ationals-home/

    If you were stuck in a Russian jail you can damn well bet that it would take heaven and earth to get you classified as "wrongfully detained, and you can bet that no way in hell would a new executive order be issued on your account. Wouldn't you want basic fairness in your treatment?

  3. #143
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    So are speeding fines harsher for the 60 year old than the 30? No. How about assault or trespassing? Hmm nope. I’d you’re mature enough to take a contract playing in a foreign country, you aren’t a minor anymore and the same expectations and standards apply

  4. #144
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    My niece Kim and her then boyfriend were teaching for a year in Dubai. She was getting anxious about his sometimes stupid behaviour. The last straw was walking in to their hotel apartment and finding him sitting on the floor drunk, snorting coke off the lid of the toilet. I laughed when she told me and thought she couldn't be serious, but she was. It was their last day together. JayInOz

  5. #145
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    So tell me what is the mildest crime she could have committed to justify her arrest and incarceration? I would like an serious answer from you on this.
    Maybe using performance enhancing dugs in the Olympics like this Russian skater ?

    Kamila Valieva

    032BDC90-A12C-4907-951B-482139AE040B.jpg
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  6. #146
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    Griner and Fogel committed virtually identical "crimes." If you want you can play games with the potency of Griner's two vape cartridges versus Fogel's 1/2 ounce of grass, but both are illegal in Russia. Fogel and Griner were arrested under Russian law. Both received "standard due process" under Russian law. Yet the U.S. government classified Griner as "wrongfully detained."

    You can read the executive order issued on July 19th, 2022 explaining the equivalence of wrongful detention and hostage taking.

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-...ationals-home/

    If you were stuck in a Russian jail you can damn well bet that it would take heaven and earth to get you classified as "wrongfully detained, and you can bet that no way in hell would a new executive order be issued on your account. Wouldn't you want basic fairness in your treatment?
    the world should be fair, but it's not. and it has never been.

    you seem concerned about a reversal of roles. how many times in our nation's story have we given to the sixty year old white guy and taken from the 31 year old black woman. and how many tears have old white guys shed over it.

    welcome to the 21st century. a black female athlete gets special consideration that an old white guy doesn't? seems "fair" enough to me, considering the general lack of fairness in everything, everywhere.

    brittney griner for president! i mean, why not.

  7. #147
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    Because fair is fair and unfair is unfair. If you believe in fairness, you can’t believe in unfairness. If you believe in an unfairness that punishes anyone, you have more in common with people in the past who you claim to despise. Be more like Gandhi.

  8. #148
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    No, no, no, L.W! I have absolutely no concern for reversal of roles. That's the kind of assumption and sh!t flinging I would expect from George Jung, not you. I don't care if Griner is black, white, or purple, or has sex with crocodiles. This situation is not taking place in the U.S. where we can make claims to historical racial discrimination, sexual preferences, age, or financial position.

    This situation involves the treatment of American citizens who have run afoul of unusual and draconian laws in foreign countries. Our government is failing if it gives special treatment to some citizens versus other citizens who are caught up in equivalent legal peril in repressive countries.

  9. #149
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Wright View Post
    No, no, no, L.W! I have absolutely no concern for reversal of roles. That's the kind of assumption and sh!t flinging I would expect from George Jung, not you. I don't care if Griner is black, white, or purple, or has sex with crocodiles. This situation is not taking place in the U.S. where we can make claims to historical racial discrimination, sexual preferences, age, or financial position.

    This situation involves the treatment of American citizens who have run afoul of unusual and draconian laws in foreign countries. Our government is failing if it gives special treatment to some citizens versus other citizens who are caught up in equivalent legal peril in repressive countries.
    don't be crackin on the good doctor yung. i won't stand for it!

    the hair you split regarding where this is happening and how it therefore has nothing to do with our domestic history of discrimination and imperfect justice is belied by the fact that you are accusing our government of discrimination and imperfect justice.

  10. #150
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    Be more like Gandhi.
    good to see you trying out new material!

  11. #151
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    good to see you trying out new material!
    Eventually, something will sink in.

  12. #152
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    don't be crackin on the good doctor yung. i won't stand for it!

    the hair you split regarding where this is happening and how it therefore has nothing to do with our domestic history of discrimination and imperfect justice is belied by the fact that you are accusing our government of discrimination and imperfect justice.

    The government is playing the popularity card for whatever reason; you and the bilge clan are playing the racial card, and perhaps the gay card.

    There's more than a hair being split here - 14 years of hard labor for an anonymous 60 year old school teacher with health issues, versus 9 years of imprisonment for a healthy female athlete who is well known in both Russia and the U.S. Perhaps her confinement will be equally bad with hard labor. I suspect she will survive it; Fogel not so much.

    Our government has an opportunity to treat both individuals equally without regard to history or any other circumstance the bilge clan erroneously guess is significant. It has failed to do so.

  13. #153
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    everybody knows that the most advantageous thing to be these days is a big black lesbian.

    what with all the cards to play, an old straight white dude doesn't stand a chance.

    go to a job interview, play the race card, bam! they make you ceo.

    run for office, pull the lesbian card, bam! they make you president.

    my old white dudes acting like favoritism is something new, just because somebody other than us is getting a favor.

    "white privilege is dead! so long meritocracy!"

  14. #154
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    everybody knows that the most advantageous thing to be these days is a big black lesbian.

    what with all the cards to play, an old straight white dude doesn't stand a chance.

    go to a job interview, play the race card, bam! they make you ceo.

    run for office, pull the lesbian card, bam! they make you president.

    my old white dudes acting like favoritism is something new, just because somebody other than us is getting a favor.

    "white privilege is dead! so long meritocracy!"
    Wtf does any of that have to do with what is right in this case? Do you believe in equality or not? Do you believe that fame should be the determining factor for your government to intervene on your behalf or not?

  15. #155
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    i am all for equality.

    let me know when it shows up.

    in the meantime, take a pill. this bit of "inequality" is nothing. why it grinds a particular set of gears is instructive, though.

    the vibe i get is that what would make you happiest is if nobody gets helped out of a russian prison sentence, unless everybody does, to an equal degree. as if that is the world we live in now, or have ever lived in.

  16. #156
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    It’s the world we should try for.

    Otherwise your first sentence is a self delusion.

  17. #157
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    well, it's a remarkable choice of hills to die on in the battle for "equality".

    like, you are all woke and stuff, but in a totally ****ed up way.

  18. #158
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    Seems to me you’re the one dying on this particular hill

  19. #159
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    i'm fine with the way things are going.

    i'm fine with the u.s. government pulling strings to get brittney back and install her as potus.

  20. #160
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    That’s fine. You’re self deluded as to your morals, but that’s not surprising. Most people like you are.

  21. #161
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    I know some of you want this to be about race and sexual orientation, but I don't think it is.

    This is about celebrity. And it's about blackmail. You need to be asking the question, "If Putin succeeds at this, who's next?"
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

  22. #162
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    That’s fine. You’re self deluded as to your morals, but that’s not surprising. Most people like you are.
    Here's the deal, whether you like it or not the world will always recognizes talent, money & celebrity over norms in everything from the good table at a great restaurant, a presidential pardon, or an international prisoner swap. You may not like it but take a teaspoon of cement and HTFU because this is how always it is and this how it always was and will be.

    The fact that some of you don't know this is shocking.
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  23. #163
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    i don't think a woman's bball player really even qualifies as "celebrity".

    it does seem that somebody called somebody with weight, right away, and griner got declared "wrongfully detained".

    i wonder if that somebody was barack obama. not kidding. he has connections in the wnba world for sure. meaning, they might call him if one of theirs got jammed up.

    and if i recall correctly, obama knows joe biden.

    access. it's all about access. who has it, and who doesn't. it's hard being forever on the outside looking in. or, you know, just recently on the outside looking in. that's really hard, too.

  24. #164
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    Maybe using performance enhancing dugs in the Olympics like this Russian skater ?

    Kamila Valieva
    So jail time for using a performance enhancing drug? A heart drug which is legal for a doctor to administer - trimetazidine. Its use only violates athletics association rules regarding banned substances. But possession of a mood enhancing drug that is illegal within the Russian boarders should be given a pass because she is a professional athlete?

    Seems to me the skater got what she deserved - stripped of her Olympic gold. Not really sure how this relates to Brittney at all?

    I was hoping you might state a crime that, if Brittney committed it, would justify the her current jail sentence since you feel her current crimes do not.

  25. #165
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    So jail time for using a performance enhancing drug? A heart drug which is legal for a doctor to administer - trimetazidine. Its use only violates athletics association rules regarding banned substances. But possession of a mood enhancing drug that is illegal within the Russian boarders should be given a pass because she is a professional athlete?

    Seems to me the skater got what she deserved - stripped of her Olympic gold. Not really sure how this relates to Brittney at all?

    I was hoping you might state a crime that, if Brittney committed it, would justify the her current jail sentence since you feel her current crimes do not.
    Hey you're making excuses for her banned substance by claiming lots of the same argument Griner used. The skater broke the rule. Her prescribed heart meds doesn't matter, thats now how the rule was written, don't like it next time try to get the rule re-written but as of now she BROKE THE RULE !!! LOCK HE UP !!!!

    Hmmm "mood enhancing drug " what like any number of SSRI Drugs that millions of people take to combat major depressive disorder, anxiety disorders ?

    So a medical prescription for cannabis for pain management of an elite athlete is more of a "mood enhancing" drug " than traditionally prescribed Oxycodone but that drug has NO "mood enhancing " qualities ?

    Come on man.
    Last edited by Joe (SoCal); 08-09-2022 at 09:57 AM.
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    Hey you're making excuses for her banned substance by claiming lots of the same argument Griner used. The skater broke the rule. Her prescribed heart meds doesn't matter, thats now how the rule was written, don't like it next time try to get the rule re-written but as of now she BROKE THE RULE !!! LOCK HE UP !!!!

    Hmmm "mood enhancing drug " what like any number of SSRI Drugs that millions of people take to combat major depressive disorder, anxiety disorders ?

    So a medical prescription for cannabis for pain management of an elite athlete is more of a "mood enhancing" drug " than traditionally prescribed Oxycodone but that drug has NO "mood enhancing " qualities ?

    Come on man.

    So you won't answer my question. The skater broke the athletics rules and faced the prescribed consequences - she broke no laws. Briner actually broke a law. Can we stay focused on laws.

    C'mon man, I deserve a real answer from you. WHAT WAS THE SMALLEST CRIME COULD BRINER HAVE COMMITTED THAT WOULD HAVE JUSTIFIED PRISON (in your opinion)? That was the question that I asked you.

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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    So you won't answer my question. The skater broke the athletics rules and faced the prescribed consequences - she broke no laws. Briner actually broke a law. Can we stay focused on laws.

    C'mon man, I deserve a real answer from you. WHAT WAS THE SMALLEST CRIME COULD BRINER HAVE COMMITTED THAT WOULD HAVE JUSTIFIED PRISON (in your opinion)? That was the question that I asked you.
    You asked me what I would consider the minimum prison offense. I used the Russian Skater which like Grimes was prescribed a banned medication. The difference is #1 Kamila Valieva is Russian and Grimes is an American #2 Kamila Valieva "Medication" is not a legal issue in her home country, but what if she was in a foreign country that made her prescribed heart medication ILLEGAL and she went to compete in that country Hmmmmm ?
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  28. #168
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    You asked me what I would consider the minimum prison offense. I used the Russian Skater which like Grimes was prescribed a banned medication. The difference is #1 Kamila Valieva is Russian and Grimes is an American #2 Kamila Valieva "Medication" is not a legal issue in her home country, but what if she was in a foreign country that made her prescribed heart medication ILLEGAL and she went to compete in that country Hmmmmm ?
    You are wrong. Valieva's drugs were legal in Russia, just not permissible in to enhance athletic performance - in other words and athletic association rule violation. Grimer's drugs were actually illegal to have in Russia. But you give Grimer the pass. That makes no sense at all.

    In essence your argument is that the person that broke no laws should be in jail and the person that actually broke a law should not be in jail.
    Last edited by Boatbum; 08-09-2022 at 11:12 AM.

  29. #169
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    I really could not care less about Griner, on a personal basis - but it's *obvious* she was snagged specifically as leverage against the West. *We* hear about it - because *they* want us to. All those other imprisoned folk - difficult to develop a sense of outrage/whatever, over folk/issues you're unaware of.

    The 'issue' here, IMO - those good folk who are concerned a tall/gay/black female might get more press, and more govt. support, than their favorite old white guy/pilot/whatever. Likely, none of them should be in prison; undoubtedly, many are simply pawns in international politics. But it is interesting who you care to support, and your 'reasoning'.
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  30. #170
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    I really could not care less about Griner, on a personal basis - but it's *obvious* she was snagged specifically as leverage against the West. *We* hear about it - because *they* want us to. All those other imprisoned folk - difficult to develop a sense of outrage/whatever, over folk/issues you're unaware of.

    The 'issue' here, IMO - those good folk who are concerned a tall/gay/black female might get more press, and more govt. support, than their favorite old white guy/pilot/whatever. Likely, none of them should be in prison; undoubtedly, many are simply pawns in international politics. But it is interesting who you care to support, and your 'reasoning'.

    She is a pawn for sure. She did bring illegal substances into the country but her sentence is thee times longer than the average Russian who breaks the same law. I'd be fine with it if she got 2 years in jail. I have very little sympathy for people that break the drug laws - even if it is 8 vials of hash oil that is the illegal substance. And if Joe SoCal ever gets arrested in a US state that outlaws Hash oil, then I would have no sympathy for him either. You have to know the laws and consequences of whatever jurisdiction you are in.
    Last edited by Boatbum; 08-09-2022 at 11:18 AM.

  31. #171
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    Quote Originally Posted by george jung View Post
    i really could not care less about griner, on a personal basis - but it's *obvious* she was snagged specifically as leverage against the west. *we* hear about it - because *they* want us to. All those other imprisoned folk - difficult to develop a sense of outrage/whatever, over folk/issues you're unaware of.

    The 'issue' here, imo - those good folk who are concerned a tall/gay/black female might get more press, and more govt. Support, than their favorite old white guy/pilot/whatever. Likely, none of them should be in prison; undoubtedly, many are simply pawns in international politics. But it is interesting who you care to support, and your 'reasoning'.

    ^^^^ this ^^^^

    Also boatbum2 what if Valieva's prescribed heart medication was illegal in a foreign country she was competing in ? Should she do 10 years hard labor because she broke the law of that country ?
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  32. #172
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    She is a pawn for sure. She did bring illegal substances into the country but her sentence is thee times longer than the average Russian who breaks the same law. I'd be fine with it if she got 2 years in jail. I have very little sympathy for people that break the drug laws - even if it is 8 vials of hash oil that is the illegal substance. And if Joe SoCal ever gets arrested in a US state that outlaws Hash oil, then I would have no sympathy for him either. You have to know the laws and consequences of whatever jurisdiction you are in.
    Got a link for that?
    Indeed, the crime Griner was prosecuted of – smuggling narcotics in “significant amount” in violation of Article 229¹(2)(c) of the Russian criminal code – carries a minimum sentence of five to 10 years “deprivation of freedom” along with the fine, and the upper end of the spectrum seems to be common. The prosecutor in Griner’s case asked for 9 ½ years and, presumably, the maximum fine. He got most of what he wanted.
    https://theconversation.com/brittney...urtroom-188271
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    ^^^^ this ^^^^

    Also boatbum2 what if Valieva's prescribed heart medication was illegal in a foreign country she was competing in ? Should she do 10 years hard labor because she broke the law of that country ?
    Of course she should. If she broke the law she faces the consequences. Please specify what country has a 10 year sentence for using a heart medication to enhance athletic performance?

  34. #174
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    A trick question, I see. What country has a ten-year sentence? Why, none of them - because the 'usual suspects' are generally citizens of those countries that would have such bizarre sentencing.

    Nice try.
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    Default Re: Brittney Griner

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    A trick question, I see. What country has a ten-year sentence? Why, none of them - because the 'usual suspects' are generally citizens of those countries that would have such bizarre sentencing.

    Nice try.
    I don't even know how to respond to this. It makes no sense. Maybe you should rephrase it. I'm sorry but this in not even English - it's word salad.

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