Alex Jones' bad day

[Paul Pless]

I believe you are about the only soul I have ever heard whine about the Hatch Act.

he is a pretty good troll

[L.W. Baxter]

Oh good, prehaps you can enlighten me about how your just and righteous democratic society protected itself from Paul Robeson, Joe Hill, Tom Mooney, Fred Hampton, Buffy Sainte-Marie, Arthur Miller, Robert Oppenheimer, Huey Newton, Julian Assange, Muhammad Ali, Edward Snowden and scores of others ?

I'm pretty sure you will manufacture some difference but to the unbiased eye, same-o same-o, captain.


You honestly do not have a clue about what the censorship bureau actually does. Which is to be expected I guess, since so few people know a damn thing about China (which doesn't stop anyone from running off at the mouth, unfortunately.)

well, that's quite a list. all but assange and snowden suffered their persecutions over forty years ago, and generally in the context of racial strife, world war, and the early years of the cold war. i don't defend abuses of authority then or now.

your contemporary examples, assange and snowden, are not wanted men in the u.s. for political expression, but for theft and publication of classified documents. if they stood trial for their crimes, the trial would be publicly reported. they would be free to defend themselves. their words in their own defense would be publicly disseminated.

if convicted, they would go to prison, where they would exercise their rights to appeal.

no one is punished for speaking freely about snowden or assange. there is no censorship of opinions about their behavior. there is no campaign by the u.s. government to erase their existence from history. you can publish a book about them that says anything you want. make a movie alleging government conspiracy against your heroes, write a song, paint a mural, draw a cartoon. you are free to lie about them and their experience at the hands of authorities. you may, of course, be run off reputable media. and you can be sued for slander or libel if your lies get too personal and specific.

no doubt the subject of this thread, alex jones, is one who has freely lied about snowden and assange and the u.s. government response. lots of airtime to fill, cognitive dissonance to traffic. lots of credulous rubes to sell stuff to. yes, he and his ilk get "deplatformed" from companies who don't want to be associated. but that is not an exercise of government authority.

our current executive administration is powerless even to limit the lies of the former guy, as he incites his mob to overthrow the constitution.

that's the extent of "censorship" in the u.s., a country in which the citizenry limit the power of the government to limit speech. which hardly means that there are no instances of abuse by authority, but there are real consequences for overreach, in our courts and at the polls.

feel free to tell us a bedtime story about the gentle hand of the ccp, and the power of the chinese citizenry to oversee--and change--their government.

[Keith Wilson]

The governments of China are far more responsive to popular opinion than the US. They just temper it with logical rational thought and planning. That's why they have a civilization while you have chaos.

Oh, my!



Well, there's something to be said for exposing one's true colors.

Note also how he has managed to derail the discussion of Alex Jones.

[L.W. Baxter]

Can you get this through that block of conrcrete on your neck ? They don't want to change their government. They like their government. They hire professionals and expect them to do the job. It has done more good for the people of China in a mere seventy-five years than almost anyone anywhere ever. Of course there are occasions when things go south, this is planet earth, after all. But overall, Chinese people are pretty damn pleased with their lives and their country and yes, their government.

Beyond that, in fact it is easier for a Chinese person to speak to their government and be heard than it is for an American. Every single district in every single city has local officials who listen to local input. The governments of China are far more responsive to popular opinion than the US. They just temper it with logical rational thought and planning. That's why they have a civilization while you have chaos.

They even listen to foreigners. Been there, done that. That doesn't mean they do what I want but they listen, with both ears -- something no legislator in the US has been known to do, unless there's a photo op involved.

lol. so, dissent is censored in china because there is no dissent in china.

and where there is obscurantism, and obviously manufactured "reality", there is no curiosity either, i suppose.

[L.W. Baxter]

Except I'm here and you are not. "Reality" is right outside my door but 8,000 miles away from you. What your "curiosity" leads to, by way of the US press, is a large steaming pile of bullpoop because you already "know" everything you are ever going to allow yourself to "know".

oh, reality is right outside my door, too.

and, from 8000 miles away, i can replay the video, right now, of hu jintao being escorted from the party congress. is that video readily available to the average resident of china? or even above average residents?

what do your chinese friends and neighbors say about the removal of hu jintao from the party congress? have you heard from hu lately?

i don't know what happened. but i can read the chinese state media twitter about it, that hu was "ill", and critically examine that claim against the visual evidence.

[Boatbum]

The discussion of Alex Jones is basically a discussion of censorship. Most of the posters here (all ?) want to censor Mr Jones. They just won't admit it because it is not politically correct. I'm pretty sure no one here wants lies and slander spread around.

Censorship has a place.


Except I'm here and you are not. "Reality" is right outside my door but 8,000 miles away from you. What your "curiosity" leads to, by way of the US press, is a large steaming pile of bullpoop because you already "know" everything you are ever going to allow yourself to "know".

I've pretty much stayed out of this discussion for two reasons:

1. Because I step in it enough already
and
2. I really don't care that much about Alex Jones or this thread

As a result I take a peek occasionally and move on. I am stunned to see how it has morphed into a thread on censorship and how China has become a bastion of free speech! That said......

The discussion of Alex Jones has nothing to do with censorship. He was, and still is, free to say whatever he wants. However, like all of us he can experience the consequence of his freedom if he says something that is libelous or incites violence or causes some kind of harm to others. Being free to say what you want does not insulate you from the consequences of that speech. What did not happen to him was the government coming to his house and dragging him into a jail because he said something that the government did not want him to say.

[Figment]

Note also how he has managed to derail the discussion of Alex Jones.

Takes two to tango. I count six in this dance.

[L.W. Baxter]

You are displaying your ignorance. And yes, it was on teevee ages ago when it happened and NO ONE in asia makes the ignorant mistakes that you people in the US do. No one in government would ever do what you mentally-compromised people think happened. Go ahead and ask Mr Craig-Bennet (since you obviously won't believe me).

EVER

https://mronline.org/2022/11/29/west...china-bashing/

yes, the video appeared on your tv.

can you legally watch it, right now? is it available for viewing, or not.

do you believe the state media, that he was escorted out due to illness?

[Gerarddm]

China is a totalitarian surveillance state. The US is not, and unless Drumpf gets back in, won't be.

I think that pretty much sums it up, yeh?

[TomF]

If I might, I launched this thread to talk about Alex Jones' day in court, and the consequences he's facing for having been found to have intentionally lied about the shootings of schoolchildren. To have got obscene amounts of money from monetizing that pain, that lie.

Please discuss authoritarianism elsewhere. It's free to start one's own thread, eh?

[birlinn]

^seconded.

[L.W. Baxter]

huh. how about them apples. censored by a canadian, the chinese and the americans both.

this is going to free up alot of my time. just need dr. jung to tell me what i can't post on the ukraine thread and i can avoid the wbf entirely for the rest of the week.

[TomF]

I've started a couple of other threads this morning for you to peruse, Lee. We Canadians are thoughtful like that.

[LeeG]

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/d...of-conspiracy/

[George Jung]

huh. how about them apples. censored by a canadian, the chinese and the americans both.

this is going to free up alot of my time. just need dr. jung to tell me what i can't post on the ukraine thread and i can avoid the wbf entirely for the rest of the week.

Not sure how I got dragged into this - but FTR - you post to your lil' hearts content, LW!

I got yer back.

[Keith Wilson]

They like their government. They hire professionals and expect them to do the job. It has done more good for the people of China in a mere seventy-five years than almost anyone anywhere ever. Of course there are occasions when things go south, this is planet earth, after all.

Since I have Mr Davies on my ignore list, I missed this, but it deserves at least a brief reply. The artificially-created famine of the 'Great Leap Forward' killed some 40+ million people, one of the worst mass murders in all of human history. The Cultural Revolution was responsible for another million or so, and the invasion and annexation of Tibet quite a few more.

Now, the Great Leap Forward was 1958-62, and the Cultural Revolution from '66 to '76, a good while ago. Fortunately things are different now - but '75 years' includes a very large pile of corpses.

But this has nothing at all to do with Mr. Jones, and probably should be on another thread.

[Boatbum]

So glad I have not been a part of this thread. It has gone completely off the rails

[Keith Wilson]

Mr Davies, I have a request. I know a little about China. You obviously know a lot more than I do, and whether you're right or wrong, you make some interesting points, and I could learn something from your posts. I'd guess that what you write would be a lot better received, and it'd certainty be more pleasant to read, if you wouldn't yell at people and call them idiots. Insults rarely help anything, accurate or not.

[L.W. Baxter]

very interesting essay, hr, from an alternative perspective. and yes, better for lacking insults.

and i don't find it that far off from the original topic. hr describes a society where alex jones simply would not have a platform, period. likely would have been shut down the first time he questioned the shared reality of what happened at sandy hook. that much is certainly clear. and the question before us might be, is that form of society, on the whole, better or worse for humankind?

sure seems like we want to shut jones's pie hole. i know i do.

[Osborne Russell]

btw, are you dissident-supporting censorship-haters aware of the Hatch Act ? Or any of the other legislative acts specifically banning and penalizing dissent in the US ?

There aren't any.

[Osborne Russell]

Somewhat ironic that the owner of Twitter and richest man in the world, does not know what free speech means. Makes one feel less alone.

Who in the USA is being censored?

Twitter cancelling an account is an excercise of the right of property. They can make a careful years-long process out of cancelling people, or they can tack the customer list to the wall an throw darts at it.

Alex Jones is not being censored.

[Osborne Russell]

The thing about this that is infuriatig is, what's wrong with you people ? Chinese people don't try to tell you what to do or how to live. Why can't you allow them to do things the way they want ? All this propaganda is just so much stupid diarrhea, ignorant crap that has nothing to do with reality. Why do you insist on it ? The tiniest bit of logical observation will show you it's garbage.

Because they live on the same planet and they're enslaved by an immoral ideology which has a high likelihood of leading to serious conflict including nuclear war; all the while committing wholesale crimes against humanity.

[Peerie Maa]

I wonder if HRD will lose it and be sufficiently rude to be Scoted?

[George Jung]

I'd guess he's one OR 'poke' away from just that.

[Nicholas Carey]

Somewhat ironic that the owner of Twitter and richest man in the world, does not know what free speech means. Makes one feel less alone.

Who in the USA is being censored?

Twitter cancelling an account is an excercise of the right of property. They can make a careful years-long process out of cancelling people, or they can tack the customer list to the wall an throw darts at it.

Alex Jones is not being censored.

As the old saw goes, "Freedom of the press belongs to he who owns one."

[Osborne Russell]

As the old saw goes, "Freedom of the press belongs to he who own one."

Like freedom to drive a car.

[Canoeyawl]

I wonder if HRD will lose it and be sufficiently rude to be Scoted?

It wouldn't be the first time

[Osborne Russell]

Looks like Giuliani is going to lose his DC law license because he filed a bull S lawsuit about voter fraud. His defense, "Yes, but the action was dismissed!"

Is this censorship of dissent?

Despite such court assertions, Giuliani “weaponized his law license by filing a frivolous lawsuit” and as a result, should have his license suspended or revoked, Fox said.

“There was no case in law nor fact for which Mr. Giuliani set forth on grounds of fraud,” Fox said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md...cense-hearing/

[Peerie Maa]

It wouldn't be the first time

If it were to happen, would he be content with being censored?

[Paul Pless]

It wouldn't be the first time

which defunct motorbike firm will he come back as next time?

[Canoeyawl]

John Alfred Prestwich