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Thread: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

  1. #1
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    Default Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    This will be interesting...

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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    I'd love to know if Biden was in on the decision.

    I don't think it's a bad move, but it may complicate Biden's efforts. That might be a good thing, but not respectful if she didn't bring him in on the decision.
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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    Pelosi had to go. China dictating US foreign policy to a complicated ally since 1949 needed to be checked.

    Biden needed a push and send a message to his counterparts. The Chinese threat of us playing with fire is serious but can be played a bit longer. Our national security revolves around our dependance on Taiwanese chip production and technology trade. The $52 billion in US investment in domestic IC wafer plants can not come soon enough. Getting the Taiwanese to come build here is a smart play.
    Without friends none of this is possible.

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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    Paul Krugman of the NYTimes is strongly against her visit. Read his column today. He makes good points.

    Meanwhile the chicoms have issued another classic ' the chinese people will not stand idly by ' comments, which invariably means that is exactly what they will do.
    Gerard>
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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    Paul Krugman of the NYTimes is strongly against her visit. Read his column today. He makes good points.

    Meanwhile the chicoms have issued another classic ' the chinese people will not stand idly by ' comments, which invariably means that is exactly what they will do.
    Well, except for the fact that the PLA has announced live fire naval exercises in the immediate vicinity of Taiwan's territorial waters.

    What could possibly go wrong?
    Steve Martinsen

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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    Naturally I don't care for Pelosi, but I think she made the right move. Might be one of the few actions that help Democrats in a couple months.
    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”― Mark Twain,


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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    $52 billion. Good move. Should have happened 10 years ago. Will not come to pass for many years.

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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    That's a tell.

    When 'the right' supports your move, *it's possible* you're missing something!
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Cool Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    Keep calm, persistence beats resistance.

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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    I don't understand how China decided Pelosi should be messed with. I cannot think of a bigger ally to China over many decades. And while not a hawk, Pelosi gladly signed every check for every imperial war Uncle Sam conducted for 40 years.

    Did China's own military industrial complex beg their American counterparts to help whip up an excuse for more contracts? China has been sensibly spending a lot more on butter than guns over the last 5 years. Maybe China's military contractors got jealous.

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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Naturally I don't care for Pelosi, but I think she made the right move. Might be one of the few actions that help Democrats in a couple months.
    Naturally, you don't care for Pelosi? Sounds like something personal.

    But seriously, has she ever done anything to you that has personally affected you directly, subjectively, objectively or otherwise? I really don't understand how an 80 year old plus grandmother could cause someone not to care for them or any substantiative way effect one's life.

    Or does her mere existence pain you?
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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin T View Post
    Naturally, you don't care for Pelosi? Sounds like something personal.


    Or does her mere existence pain you?
    We on the Right have been consistently unfair with Pelosi. She has always been one of the hotter legislators in the history of the nation. And still maintains herself. Its like Jane Fonda. back in the eighties we had the urinal stickers in the armory barracks and here it is 2022 and she is still hot...

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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    Quote Originally Posted by Domesticated_Mr. Know It All View Post
    Did he ever play an underacted character?

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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin T View Post
    Naturally, you don't care for Pelosi? Sounds like something personal.

    But seriously, has she ever done anything to you that has personally affected you directly, subjectively, objectively or otherwise? I really don't understand how an 80 year old plus grandmother could cause someone not to care for them or any substantiative way effect one's life.

    Or does her mere existence pain you?

    Once again crossing the aisle and complimenting the actions of the 'other party' is too much for some to handle.

    Apparently one must drink all of the kool-aid, an occasional sip will not do.
    “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”― Mark Twain,


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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    Chinese State media is freaking out:

    F676405D-1952-454E-9CC8-1752D93336AB.jpg

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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    You'd think it would make much more sense for the Chinese to just ignore it. Might the fuss be mainly for domestic consumption?
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    The Chinese Dictatorship since Mao has wanted to rectify the humiliations of Chiang Kai-shek.

    It is a ripe plum for the picking.
    Too dang many dictators these days. It's time to let the cockroaches have a go at it.

    Tom

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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    China are staging "exercises" on all sides of Taiwan- large numbers of fighter jets in the sky. Nancy Pelosi will be flying out through that tomorrow, and Chinese pilots have a habit of doing really stupid, threatening and provocative things when encountering aircraft from other nations. What could possibly go wrong? JayInOz

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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    Almost everything Jay, in my estimation, and if it did it would be very difficult to de-escalate.

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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    Quote Originally Posted by SMARTINSEN View Post
    Well, except for the fact that the PLA has announced live fire naval exercises in the immediate vicinity of Taiwan's territorial waters.
    For like the fifth time this year.

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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    Aus's 'capacity' would be overwhelmed in 5 minutes. We are 10-20 years behind where our military should be after tugging the forelock to the US since WW2, and delegating our own responsibilities to them. Several successive governments, including the Right who were the most aggressive, have neglected their responsibilities. We are in no position to be independent militarily or foreign policy wise and have not been for a very long time.
    Safest thing for Aus is probably to leave the door open.
    Last edited by skuthorp; 08-03-2022 at 04:43 AM.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    Pelosi has left Taiwan. Nice meeting with Tsai IngWen. Job done and the PLA are still getting into gear.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    And China has responded with... sanctions.

    The mark of the impotent superpower.

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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Naturally I don't care for Pelosi, but I think she made the right move. Might be one of the few actions that help Democrats in a couple months.
    It was a bad idea to go in the first place, but the right decision after the threats from China. Unfortunately tensions in the region are the worst they have been in a while and this move will only make them worse.

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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    When I was in Taipei, or on a mountain top north of it, in a top secret secure comms facility with radio coverage of all of the Chicom mainland, and with a dedicated direct secure comms link to NSA, this was exactly one of things we were there for, constantly monitoring the response and threat capability of the Chicoms. Along with similar capability permanently stationed in Korea, the Philipines and Japan. And we would've been tracking, and launching and or helping the Taiwanese to launch, all the fighter jet response to stave it off.

    The entire US military, not just in the PACAF command, but all around the globe, would immediately be on the highest DefCon alert. The president would've been notified, by standing order, within ten minutes of any of the Chicom pilots 'locking on' with missle firing radar to anything else in the sky around the airspace of Taiwan. And the US and China and Taiwan did this dance, usually with only a nominal number of jets, just about daily. All while the Taiwanese were flying coast patrols along the mainland, we were also regularly sending ferret flights of U2s and SR71s across the strait to overfly Chicom airspace at eighty thousand feet, including up river valleys on the mainland, in order to gauge their defense capability. Daily. While the USSR was floating 'fishing trawlers' off our Pacific coast monitoring our capability.

    And back then, before we had satellite capability up and running to do more of the same from remote locations, we maintained a daily updated catalog of every fighter jet, bomber and transport and civilian flight at every airfield in China. We kept up a database and knew the radio call signs of every pilot in the those daily flights, and we were able to maintain the catalog when they regularly changed their radio callsigns and frequencies. We also knew exactly how many tanks and the size of all their ground forces they had at bases doing ops exercises in country, and exactly how many nuclear subs they had, and which naval bases they were docked at, which back then was exactly two. We knew with confidence where the subs were being built and and when they were commissioned. And we knew when the Chicoms stopped buying Migs from Russia and started manufacturing their own, and when they started manufacturing their own design.

    China may be able to cripple our economy by emptying the shelves at Walmart, and limiting our inventory of computer chips for all our stuff, but they aren't the only supplier for those, and they'd be putting a hurt on their own economy.

    And Taiwan has been regularly supplied with a small force of US made fighters, F16s, since Jiang was president. And the Taiwanese public, at least back then, were regularly reminded that their own mission was to eventually 'retake the mainland.' It was a political patriotic slogan that got bandied about, 'da hwei da lu.'

    Of course this was fifty years ago, but I have a hard time believing the Chicoms have outstripped us in the meantime in the capability to defend or counter-attack. Sanctions aren't going to be on the scale of what we are doing to Putin, more like a formal diplomatic complaint. There won't be any shooting. And of course the Taiwanese were never going to actually try to da hwei da lu, but neither are the mainland Chinese going to try to invade the island. The Taiwanese don't want to be 'liberated,' and a landing would be devasting, a bloody debacle and humiliating for the mainlanders, and attempting to occupy with force would be worse.


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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    In 1997 Newt Gingrich visited Taiwan as Speaker of the House, and then flew on to Beijing.

    It seems to me that Nancy Pelosi had to visit Taiwan.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Mahan View Post
    The Taiwanese don't want to be 'liberated,' and a landing would be devasting, a bloody debacle and humiliating for the mainlanders, and attempting to occupy with force would be worse.
    Of course all that applied to Ukraine, and Putin still invaded. Weak autocrats do stupid stuff.

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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Of course all that applied to Ukraine, and Putin still invaded. Weak autocrats do stupid stuff.
    Xi is a weak autocrat, and in the same position as Putin? Really?


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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    Xi just effed up his covid respose in a major way, and China's economy is set to decline. He is too weak to consolidate his power like he plans.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    Paul Krugman of the NYTimes is strongly against her visit. Read his column today. He makes good points.

    100% agreed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    It seems to me that Nancy Pelosi had to visit Taiwan.

    And a foregone conclusion once China started making threats regarding her visit.
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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom from Rubicon View Post
    The Chinese Dictatorship since Mao has wanted to rectify the humiliations of Chiang Kai-shek.

    It is a ripe plum for the picking.
    Too dang many dictators these days. It's time to let the cockroaches have a go at it.

    Tom
    Sun Yat Sen died too soon, or we’d remember him better, maybe? He was something.

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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    "China Scared By 82 Year Old Woman" - Borowitz
    "So we beat on, paddleboats against the wake of a neighbor’s jet ski, born back ceaselessly into the past." The Great Lakes Gatsby

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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    It’s interesting she wore pink. Bet it was on purpose. Along with the age, it looks bad to get upset by an old woman in a pink outfit. Smart.

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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    Quote Originally Posted by BrianW View Post
    Once again crossing the aisle and complimenting the actions of the 'other party' is too much for some to handle.

    Apparently one must drink all of the kool-aid, an occasional sip will not do.
    Don't drink Kool Aid, never have.

    Compliment or don't compliment all you want, I was legitimately asking as to how a woman, speaker of the house or otherwise more than 5,000 miles from where you live could affect you in any way. Has she passed some legislation that causes your disdain.

    There has never been an action by anyone, and I mean anyone in DC who has caused me even a moment of concern or done something that has in any way affected me personally. Now if I was running some large multi-national Fortune 500 company, perhaps my outlook might be a bit different. But affect me personally? NEVER.

    I truly was curious how the Speaker could zero something in on one cat in AK out of 330 million citizens that would cause you to not care for her. When Newt was Speaker, or Ryan, or Boehner I can't recall a single instance where I gave them more than a passing thought.
    "Unrepentant Reprobate"
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    Default Re: Pelosi lands in Taiwan

    It occurs to me that the appropriate response to China should be, “We refer you to the reply given in the case of Arkell v. Pressdram.”
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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