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Thread: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.

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    Default Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.

    Thought this would be a good topic for the bilge! Our dystopian future coming home to roost. This will give encouragement to those leaning towards the Prepper Culture.......
    The article comes from a favourite online independant media source containing articles written by some of the most well placed Australians and also with permission sharing from other online sources, this one being from Home - CounterPunch.org

    Robert Hunziker: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse – Pearls and Irritations

    It’s entirely possible that doomsayers of the world, though widely ridiculed, could be on target about the prospects for global societal collapse. But, of course, when? According to a recent Noam Chomsky interview, it’s an ongoing grind that will end with a thud.
    The onset of societal collapse is not hidden. Rather, similar to animals in the wild, people sense when something’s out of the ordinary, amiss, trouble brewing, on the alert. There’s tension in the air, tempers flare, strangers lash out, and society turns against establishment protocols; it’s the antithesis of The Adventures of Ozzie & Harriet (1952-1966) and Father Knows Best (1954-1960). Instead, it’s Mad Max (1979) redux. It is today’s world, and people sense trouble, something’s not right.
    As for confirmation of those haunting feelings that something’s not right, a recent UN report discusses prominent risks of “global collapse”: UN 2022 Global Assessment Report on Disaster Risk Reduction, aka: GAR2022 d/d May 2022, more on this later.
    Accordingly, escalating synergies of (1) disasters (2) economic vulnerability and (3) ecosystem failures increasingly accumulate into a juggernaut of collapse, and finally, similar to an orderly line of tripped dominoes, it cascades without enough notice.

    On the heels of the recent UN warning, Noam Chomsky also echoes the central premise of doomsayers: “The challenge ahead is beyond anything humans have ever faced. The fate of life on the planet is now at hand.” (Chomsky – Principal speaker for the American Solar Energy Society 51st annual conference, University of New Mexico, June 21, 2022).
    Chomsky is an iconic fixture of the Left known for strength of character, brilliance, and omniscience. His opening statement at the conference: “We are at a unique moment in human history. Decisions that must be made right now will determine the course of future history if there is to be any human history, which is very much in doubt. There is a narrow window in which we must implement measures to avert cataclysmic destruction of the environment.”

    Chomsky questions survivability of humanity with one key sentence, as follows: “If there is to be any human history, which is very much in doubt.” This statement didn’t come from George Carlin in one of his cynical monologs on American ethics or morals. It’s Noam Chomsky, the father knows best figure of academia.
    Chomsky speaks the same sentiments as the doomsayers of the world and in concert with an unlikely but factual United Nations doomsayer analysis, which is much deeper, and scarier, than publicly realised, more on that to follow.

    Are they onto something?
    Chomsky: The facts are clear. There are two major issues in front of us. The immediate crisis is severe. The crisis is coming to a head in Washington D.C., capitol of the most powerful nation/state in world history.
    The fate of the world hangs in the balance of what happens in Washington. It’s not a secret. Indeed, New York Times energy environment correspondent Coral Davenport described a long carefully executed campaign to destroy organised human life on Earth in a recent NYT article: Republican Drive to Tilt Courts Against Climate Action Reaches a Crucial Moment, NYT, June 19, 2022.
    Chomsky admits the Times article may seem outrageous, but he feels it is completely accurate. As explained therein, the campaign has been carried out meticulously for years by the Energy System. It’s enormous in institutional breadth, including fossil fuel companies, banks and other financial institutions and a large part of the legal community. It also has an international base of support called NATO.
    It’s not widely known but in the post cold war era NATO formally undertook an expanded mission based upon the following dictum by the Secretary General: “To guard pipelines that transport oil and gas that is directed for the West and more generally to protect sea routes used by tankers and other crucial infrastructure of the energy system.” (Source: NATO Secretary General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, 2004-09, outlining NATO’s mission at NATO conference)

    The Energy System campaign has a strong political base in the Republican Party, especially since 2009. The McCain platform (2008) included a climate program until the Koch brothers got involved. And refused to tolerate it, launching a huge juggernaut bribery intimidation and enormous lobbying campaign to stop it, and going so far as to create a fake citizens group in opposition. They were successful.
    Regarding Washington today and Davenport’s column: The Supreme Court, which is reactionary, will consider measures that restrict the use of fossil fuels to limit the effects of environmental destruction. If they strike down EPA authority, it’ll become a precedent for others winding their way thru the legal system. (Addendum- Subsequent to Chomsky’s speech, the far-right Court hammered the EPA, clobbering prospects for a green future in favour of a very dark world order.)
    According to Chomsky, for most of history Homo sapiens lived in harmony with nature, until Aug 6 1945 the day that taught two stark lessons: (1) Human capacity reached a level to destroy everything (2) Very few seemed to care. The upshot: “Now, we are at the point when the major institutions of organised society are intent on destroying organised human life on Earth and the millions of other species.” And, too few seem to care enough to stop it.

    The famous Doomsday Clock (University of Chicago) was reset during the Trump administration at two minutes to midnight for the first time since 1953. Now at 100 seconds. It will be set again in January, and Chomsky believes a good case can be made to move the second hand even closer to midnight, which is the final hour when humanity self-destructs, either with a bang or suffocation.
    In addition to the primary concerns surrounding the dictates of the Doomsday Clock of a growing threat of nuclear war and of failure to prevent lethal global heating, a new concern has been added: The deterioration of rational discourse. ”Unless that gap can be closed, there’s no hope of closing the dread in time to save ourselves.”
    Moreover, for Chomsky, there’s a deeper question. It is the famous Fermi Paradox… in brief: Where are they?
    Enrico Fermi (1901-1954) was a distinguished astrophysicist (Nobel Prize in Physics, 1938) and he felt certain about the reality of a huge number of planets with conditions to sustain life to lead to higher intelligence, and that we were within reach of advanced communication.
    But we cannot find a trace of them out there.

    So, where are they?
    According to Chomsky, one response that has been proposed and cannot be dismissed is that higher intelligence has actually developed numerous times throughout the eons but has always proven to be lethal. Similar to today’s merry-go-round tinkering with fission and excessive levels of greenhouse gases, “they discovered the means for self-annihilation but did not develop the moral capacity to prevent it. Perhaps that is inherent with higher intelligence. We are now confronted with whether that principle holds for modern humans.”..................



    ..................[ continued; Robert Hunziker: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse – Pearls and Irritations ]
    Last edited by Hallam; 07-17-2022 at 07:13 PM.
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci.

    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question.

    "Freighters on the nod on the surface of the bay, One of these days we're going to sail away"
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    Default Re: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.

    Well that’s just peachy. But might explain the Fermi Paradox.

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    Default Re: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.

    93 year old dotard.
    Steve Martinsen

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    Default Re: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.

    "Forbidden Planet." The human race will become the Krell.

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    Default Re: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.

    I think it quite likely he's right. Man has never developed the skill to manage himself, instead he invented gods, heaven and hell. Anything but take actual personal responsibility.

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    Default Re: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.

    Quote Originally Posted by SMARTINSEN View Post
    93 year old dotard.
    Doesn't mean he is wrong.

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    Default Re: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.

    no, and he's been warning about what is now happening for a very long time.

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    Default Re: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.

    Quote Originally Posted by birlinn View Post
    Doesn't mean he is wrong.
    According to Chomsky, one response that has been proposed and cannot be dismissed is that higher intelligence has actually developed numerous times throughout the eons but has always proven to be lethal.
    Any evidence for this?
    Steve Martinsen

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    Default Re: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.

    Quote Originally Posted by SMARTINSEN View Post
    Any evidence for this?
    Yes, circumstantial,...... despite searching the cosmos with targeted strategies, eg SETI Institute we haven't as yet found any evidence or trace of inteligent life, not even in the transmission of radio signals. This is the basis of the fore mentioned Fermi Paradox. One theory as to why the search has drawn a blank response is the postulation that intelligent life has an established and repeated pattern of reaching a point of advancement that results in behaviour that causes extinction. Inteligent life gains in the area of the intellectual smarts but lags behind in 'moral' or cohesive, life affirming social behaviour. The article puts forward the suggestion that the human race may be approaching a tipping point where this may be an outcome. It is definitely projecting a season or epoch of social collapse as an increasing probability.
    Last edited by Hallam; 07-18-2022 at 06:50 AM.
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci.

    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question.

    "Freighters on the nod on the surface of the bay, One of these days we're going to sail away"
    Bruce Cockburn

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    Default Re: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.

    Not ever likely, not because of where so much as when. And considering the Human flame has only been turned up to the red line for say 300 years………and may snuff itself out soon………… it's unlikey we will be about long enough to make a splash. We may be able to see back 35 billion years, but the most technically advanced country on the earth is balanced insecurely between intelligence and pig ignorance.
    Humans do have tickets on themselves, inventing a god and then maintaining they are made in his image.

    Really smartinsen, apply some rigour and logic.

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    Default Re: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Not ever likely, not because of where so much as when. And considering the Human flame has only been turned up to the red line for say 300 years………and may snuff itself out soon………… it's unlikey we will be about long enough to make a splash. We may be able to see back 35 billion years, but the most technically advanced country on the earth is balanced insecurely between intelligence and pig ignorance.
    Humans do have tickets on themselves, inventing a god and then maintaining they are made in his image.

    Really smartinsen, apply some rigour and logic.
    Fair crack of the whip mate. His/her image
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci.

    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question.

    "Freighters on the nod on the surface of the bay, One of these days we're going to sail away"
    Bruce Cockburn

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    Default Re: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.

    Here is a link to the UN report that predicts collapse is likely

    https://www.undrr.org/gar2022-our-wo...iner-downloads

    John

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    Default Re: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.

    Dark Forest theory. See The Three-Body Solution books, particulalry the 2nd, The Dark Forest.

    #9: Recall the approx 1,000 year collapse between Alaric's sack of Rome and the start of the Renaissance.
    Gerard>
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    Default Re: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.

    On this topic, I recomment Andrew Potter On Decline. It's a short read, but sobering.

    What are you doing about it?




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    Default Re: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.

    We're something of a one trick pony in the intelligence department. Clever in a quite narrowly defined domain but really dumb in most other respects.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallam View Post
    Yes, circumstantial,...... despite searching the cosmos with targeted strategies, eg SETI Institute we haven't as yet found any evidence or trace of inteligent life, not even in the transmission of radio signals. This is the basis of the fore mentioned Fermi Paradox. One theory as to why the search has drawn a blank response is the postulation that intelligent life has an established and repeated pattern of reaching a point of advancement that results in behaviour that causes extinction. Inteligent life gains in the area of the intellectual smarts but lags behind in 'moral' or cohesive, life affirming social behaviour. The article puts forward the suggestion that the human race may be approaching a tipping point where this may be an outcome. It is definitely projecting a season or epoch of social collapse as an increasing probability.
    On the other hand, it took 13.5 billion years to produce us. In order for a rocky, water based planet chock-full of metals and other heavy elements to form, we had to form around a third generation star, 13.5ish billions of years after Inflation occurred.
    So it is likely that it will also have taken about the same duration to produce another sentient life form capable of transmitting signals.
    As we are out on an underpopulated arm of our galaxy, it will take many thousands of years for any such signals to reach us, and if they were transmitted about now, we won't hear them, but anyone listening in thousands of years time might.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.

    I see some similarities to the late bronze age collapse. The wealth of the bronze age civilizations relied on complex systems of trade. The superiority of bronze weapons made them dominant. The advent of early iron age weapons meant that weapons were more easily accessible and did not rely on complex supply chains. This brought about a collapse of large empires, and some cities never came back at all.

    But I expect some people will survive the sort of disaster we will bring on ourselves.

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    Default Re: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.

    Quote Originally Posted by SMARTINSEN View Post
    93 year old dotard.
    Is there a particular character that you’d prefer to comment on the topic?

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    Default Re: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.


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    Default Re: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.

    yeah well collapse will take longer in some places than others.

    https://bylinetimes.com/2022/05/26/u...ry-boundaries/

    UN Warns of ‘Total Societal Collapse’ Due to Breaching of Planetary Boundaries
    A landmark report by the United Nations concludes that ‘global collapse’ is becoming more likely. But was it watered-down before being published?

    When the United Nations published its 2022 ‘Global Assessment Report on Disaster Risk Reduction’ (GAR2022) in May, the world’s attention was on its grim verdict that the world was experiencing an accelerating trend of natural disasters and economic crises. But not a single media outlet picked up the biggest issue: the increasing probability of civilisational collapse.

    Buried in the report, which was endorsed by UN Secretary-General António Guterres, is the finding that escalating synergies between disasters, economic vulnerabilities and ecosystem failures are escalating the risk of a “global collapse” scenario.

    This stark conclusion appears to be the first time that the UN has issued a flagship global report finding that existing global policies are accelerating toward the collapse of human civilisation. Yet somehow this urgent warning has remained unreported until now.

    The report does not suggest that this outcome is inevitable or specify how close to this possibility we are. But it does confirm that, without radical change, that’s where the world is heading.
    Last edited by LeeG; 07-18-2022 at 09:24 PM.

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    Default Re: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.

    Confirms my thinking for a long time. Not for nothing did I decide not to have children.
    I listened to a programme on species extinction, the obvious leap to ours was not well made.
    But people will believe what they want to believe. That report, and one here suppressed by our previous RW religiosity driven PM, is so scary that it just produces a head in the sand reaction.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-...port/101247794

    The Greens are pushing it, but a government has to take the community with them, if there is the time…..
    Last edited by skuthorp; 07-18-2022 at 04:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.

    The linked article in #20 is worth reading on from what Lee has copied.
    Last edited by Hallam; 07-18-2022 at 05:01 PM.
    Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Leonardo da Vinci.

    If war is the answer........... it must be a profoundly stupid question.

    "Freighters on the nod on the surface of the bay, One of these days we're going to sail away"
    Bruce Cockburn

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    Default Re: Chomsky and the United Nations warn of collapse.

    Quote Originally Posted by skuthorp View Post
    Not ever likely, not because of where so much as when. And considering the Human flame has only been turned up to the red line for say 300 years………and may snuff itself out soon………… it's unlikey we will be about long enough to make a splash. We may be able to see back 35 billion years, but the most technically advanced country on the earth is balanced insecurely between intelligence and pig ignorance.
    Humans do have tickets on themselves, inventing a god and then maintaining they are made in his image.

    Really smartinsen, apply some rigour and logic.
    balance in particulars but in aggragate something below pig ignorance. More like yeast.

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