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Thread: William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

  1. #1
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    Default William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

    Saw this boat at our local dock a few months ago. When I came back a few weeks later to take a picture it was gone. Now I see it's for sale. Pretty little thing! The photo in the add does not do it justice.

    Not mine.

    Classic Wooden Yawl - boats - by owner - marine sale (craigslist.org)
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
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    Default Re: William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

    Those are really nice boats, but, "collectible"?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

    The seller states that this is "a classic design by Mr Garden from the 1890's, I believe when people first took to the water to sail for pleasure." LOL


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    Default Re: William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty J View Post
    The seller states that this is "a classic design by Mr Garden from the 1890's, I believe when people first took to the water to sail for pleasure." LOL
    But he's not wrong--the Victorian era and the rise of the well-off middle class really was the beginning of recreational sailing for "the masses," wasn't it?

    Tom
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

    I believe he's quite right in the timing of "recreational boating" which had a massive surge at the turn of the century. Garden's "Eel" design is a lovely little boat that I've thought about building, but ran out of steam.

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    Default Re: William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

    Charles the II, picked up the idea of sailing for fun while in the Netherlands. From then on it was a wealthy past time beside the fishing.

    Even sailing canoes were toys of the relatively wealthy back in Victorian times. At best working people might have owned a model boat and sailed it in on a lake in Victoria park. A good fisherman might have been employed to race a boat in the summer for a wealthy owner.

    The masses only took to the water recreationally in the 1960's with the plywood Mirror I'd say. Because of WW2, and being cut off, we'd got experienced,creative and confident with glued structures and had left over wartime industries needing to immediately diversify from making aeroplane wings and fuselages like Fairey Marine.
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 07-20-2022 at 10:30 AM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward Pearson View Post
    Even sailing canoes were toys of the relatively wealthy back in Victorian times. At best working people might have owned a model boat and sailed it in a Victorian lake.

    The masses only got on the water in the 1960's with the plywood Mirror I'd say...
    Yep--that's why I put "the masses" in quotation marks--the explosion in recreational sailing in the Victorian era was upper middle class.

    I think the lingering perception of sailing as a pursuit of the uber-wealthy has really held back dinghy development and especially dinghy cruising here in the U.S.

    It seems the only "sailing" people know about here is:

    1. Club racing
    2. Super-wealthy yacht ownership
    3. High-end yacht racing

    Any dingy sailing that's known here is likely perceived as a stepping stone to big expensive boats, and not as a worthy pursuit on its own merits. And awareness of small boat cruising is basically zero.

    Tom
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    Default Re: William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post

    Any dingy sailing that's known here is likely perceived as a stepping stone to big expensive boats, and not as a worthy pursuit on its own merits. And awareness of small boat cruising is basically zero.

    Tom
    It comes down to having the right combination of time, motive, opportunity and money. If you want to narrow the field to sailing add patience, lots of patience.
    Steve

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

    Very right about patience. Sadly the number of sailors continues to dwindle. My home port in MA has very few masts left in the harbor. All most all replaced with Grady Whites. The 70's and 80's saw quite a number of families in the US buying sailboats- many Catalina 22s, Marshalls, Oday, etc - and doing family cruises. At present time it seems nobody has time for the activity. Maybe when there are some CO2 restrictions it will swing back. I wish I'd been around when Gil Smith was doing his work and it was nothing but sails on the bay. That sight could come again...

    On a positive note at my local yacht club (a neighborhood club based on volunteerism not $) the sailing regatta remains a main event and the kids sailing camp is jammed full all summer long. My son is a counselor and it's great that lots of young kids are still learning to sail and race.

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    Default Re: William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    It comes down to having the right combination of time, motive, opportunity and money. If you want to narrow the field to sailing add patience, lots of patience.
    Yes, but money does not have to be nearly as much a factor as most people assume if they don't know better. Look at what Michael Storer is doing with the Oz Goose in the Philippines. Or what a no-sailing-background guy like me can do in a $300 Bolger boat as far as cruising goes.

    A bigger problem is, I think, a nearly complete lack of production boats for dinghy cruising, which means a lack of suitable cheap second-hand boats, which drives my kind of sailing/cruising into a build-it-yourself endeavor. Very few people are willing to leap into sailing as a novice if they have to build themselves a boat first, I guess.

    Honestly, I think that sail & oar cruising could give sea kayaks more than a run for their money as far as an appealing and inexpensive mode of wilderness travel/adventure goes. But no one has any way of knowing that, unless they are somehow introduced to the idea.

    Tom
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    Default Re: William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

    It isn't just the initial cost of the boat, where does it live? I'm fortunate to be in a place financially where I can keep my boat in a slip, ready to go whenever but in another year or so I'll have paid more for that privilege than I did to buy the materials to builder her. Keeping it in a garage or side yard means you have a house, apartment and townhome dwellers are stuck for space.

    On a more positive note, I went out for a little overnight cruise on Monday and saw the Salish 100 fleet working their way north to Kingston as I was headed south for home on Tuesday. Lots of small boats, mostly crewed by 3/4 aged men. A few grimly hunkered down by their OB motor hoping it will be over soon (BTDT). Others on a scale of less grim to pretty happy looking were working their way upwind. It was quite a sight. Working downwind, I also had to pick my way through an armada of small to medium sized fishing boats, apparently King Salmon fishing season opened that morning (they were nowhere to be seen when i crossed that area on Monday). Many people are boating, I just think there are a lot of variables taken out of the equation when you drop the sail and/or oar and go power.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

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    Default Re: William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    Many people are boating, I just think there are a lot of variables taken out of the equation when you drop the sail and/or oar and go power.
    Well, many people are boating, but precious few are sailing. And of those, only a vanishingly small percentage are engaged in dingy cruising, which--ironically enough--is the cheapest, simplest, most democratic entry point into the sailing world I know of.

    I agree that storage is an issue for apartment dwellers, even for a trailer sailor. But I still believe that very few people know just how inexpensive a small cruising boat--an open boat, not a "small" cabin boat--can be, in both up-front costs and maintenance.

    It's rare for someone who isn't raised in a sailing family to get into it on their own. I feel very lucky that way.

    Tom
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    Default Re: William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty J View Post
    The seller states that this is "a classic design by Mr Garden from the 1890's, I believe when people first took to the water to sail for pleasure." LOL

    I wonder how Mr Garden managed that!

  14. #14
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    Default Re: William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

    Holmes' original boat is still going...


  15. #15
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    Default Re: William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

    Quote Originally Posted by John Meachen View Post
    I wonder how Mr Garden managed that!
    Glad someone caught that part.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

    Quote Originally Posted by stromborg View Post
    It isn't just the initial cost of the boat, where does it live? I'm fortunate to be in a place financially where I can keep my boat in a slip, ready to go whenever but in another year or so I'll have paid more for that privilege than I did to buy the materials to builder her. Keeping it in a garage or side yard means you have a house, apartment and townhome dwellers are stuck for space.
    If you can't keep your boat on a trailer, you need to be pretty well-heeled to afford to keep a boat in Seattle.

    Moorage rates in Seattle are nuts. Figure $15+ per foot per month.

    As 30 foot slip at the publicly owned Shilshole Bay Marina will set you back $480/month ($16/foot/month). And it's at least a 1-year wait. And move up to a 34-foot slip and the wait is 2+ years.

    The per-foot price goes up as the slip size gets bigger, too. A 40-foot slip is $711/month ($18/foot/month).

    And if you want to store your kayak, or keep something on the dinghy dock. . . even that's a 1+ year wait, too.

    That's just to park it. Doesn't cover the mandatory $300,000 insurance you're required to carry, even dinghies in dry storage:

    INSURANCE REQUIREMENTS

    A minimum of $300,000 general liability insurancecoverage is required by the marina for all vesselsthat fall into one or more of the following categories:vessels with hull length greater than 16 feet; vesselswith motors 10 horsepower or more; vessels thatare in dry moorage and use marina hoists to launch.
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  17. #17
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    A couple of William Garden's EELs for sale.

    This is in Clackamas County, Oregon, just south of Portland. She was built by Schooner Creek Boatworks, who built RAGE, the strip-planked, record setting Tom Wylie 70-footer.

    https://portland.craigslist.org/clc/...521761982.html

    This is a William Garden designed "EEL" built using the West System by Schooner Creek Boatworks of Portland Oregon. This construction allows for great strength, light weight with a minimum maintenance. This boat has been owned by me for since built in 1981. It is in very good condition having been stored indoors for most of the year. There is a near new galvanized trailer included. Low hour 4 hp Evenrude motor with bracket included.
    The EEL design is everything that a tiny cruising boat should be: seaworthy, shoal draft, easy to rig and handle and above all a real eye catcher.



    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  18. #18
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    Another Eel here in Seattle.

    https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/b...509321333.html

    Beautiful, Collectible William Garden Eel Classic Wooden Yawl. Original design dates from 1890s by this legendary boat build builder from the Pacific Northwest. Included are the original plans. Sails are handmade by Nathaniel S. Wilson in East Boothbay, Maine. Electric trolling motor and 24-volt battery system included as well as handmade artisan oars and trailer.

    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  19. #19
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    Default Re: William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

    In Holmes boat in #14 where/how does the hole/trough for the bottom of the mast drain?
    thanks

  20. #20
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    Default Re: William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

    How do you mean? It's a deck-stepped mast in a tabernacle so the rig can easily be struck. Nothing really to catch water.

    Often the base of the tabernacle will be sloped fore-and-aft and the base of the mast sloped to match, so as to allow the drainage of whatever water finds its way in:

    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  21. #21
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    Default Re: William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

    Some of those early canoe yawls had a slot in the deck allowing for the mast to be counterweighted, I think that might be what gray duck is asking about. I believe they just drained into the bilge.
    Steve

    If you would have a good boat, be a good guy when you build her - honest, careful, patient, strong.
    H.A. Calahan

  22. #22
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    Default Re: William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    Yep--that's why I put "the masses" in quotation marks--the explosion in recreational sailing in the Victorian era was upper middle class.

    I think the lingering perception of sailing as a pursuit of the uber-wealthy has really held back dinghy development and especially dinghy cruising here in the U.S.

    It seems the only "sailing" people know about here is:

    1. Club racing
    2. Super-wealthy yacht ownership
    3. High-end yacht racing

    Any dingy sailing that's known here is likely perceived as a stepping stone to big expensive boats, and not as a worthy pursuit on its own merits. And awareness of small boat cruising is basically zero.

    Tom
    I have been a dinghy sailor since I was about 8 and despite several opportunities to scale up I still think I have made the right decisions. I have however rented several larger craft on occasion to suit the circumstances, and location. On Loch Ness and in West Aussie for instance.
    But I have lusted after a Garden canoe yawl and a Lyle Hess at the Hobart show.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

    Quote Originally Posted by gray duck View Post
    In Holmes boat in #14 where/how does the hole/trough for the bottom of the mast drain?
    thanks












    Can't say for sure, but on Holmes' Eel, the mast well supports the front of the centercase, so it would be good form to drain into there...


    If you log into Boatshed you can see all (the original Eel's) pictures when she was on brokerage.

    https://norfolk.boatshed.com/classic...at-237533.html

    Check out the details for the companionway door for example - vents, window, latch and the top part drops down...



    Larch on oak carvel.



    I'll have a look at the drawings in Albert Strange's book of designs by John Leather, and also John Leather's Sail and Oar book of designs, I think she's in both. If not the George Homes book Holmes of the Humber recently published.

    There's a chapter on William Gardner's Eel in his book of designs.
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 08-25-2022 at 04:36 AM.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

    Mr Pearson - thanks for those pics and information! I would think draining into centerboard trunk is right smart.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: William Garden canoe yawl San Diego CL

    That would make a nice camp cruiser!

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