Poll: Life after Behr Spar Varnish

[Ted Hoppe]

I shook hands with the devil today. She cried out - get her done!

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[pcford]

good luck!

[Ted Hoppe]

The future could be foam brushes. 24 for $15. they may be the more economical choice, time saving, finer application, no chance of leaving a bristle behind and may use less varnish or sealant in application than a fine brush. Most importantly, there is no cleaning up, freaking out because it hardened or using/breathing chemicals to clean that expensive brush.
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[Yeadon]

I’ve discovered there are levels of quality to foam brushes. Some just fall apart after a few minutes. I usually tip and roll my varnish using 1/8” Tiz rollers and foam brushes. Works great. Same deal for paint.

[ron ll]

Snoose has no exterior brightwork other than the foredeck which is Cetol. I’ve tried other finishes on it, but came back to Cetol as I think the color works well on this 78 year old Shaw Island fir. And it sure is easy to do a quick sand and recoat.

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I haven’t varnished anything in a long time other than a few interior parts. When I had a Blanchard Sr. Knockabout, and when I built this skiff, I used Man o war just because I was familiar with it.

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Not recommending it, but does anyone remember Liquid Rawhide?

[StevenBauer]

I’ve discovered there are levels of quality to foam brushes. Some just fall apart after a few minutes. I usually tip and roll my varnish using 1/8” Tiz rollers and foam brushes. Works great. Same deal for paint.

Jen is a good brand, too.

[pcford]

The future could be foam brushes. 24 for $15. they may be the more economical choice, time saving, finer application, no chance of leaving a bristle behind and may use less varnish or sealant in application than a fine brush. Most importantly, there is no cleaning up, freaking out because it hardened or using/breathing chemicals to clean that expensive brush.
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Foamies are fine for build coats and for the reasons noted above. However, for a full final coat you will want to use a bristle brush. As my buddy Geeno says, "Foamies are like painting with a brick."

[WI-Tom]

I'm with John Welsford on this question: my favorite varnish is paint. Latex porch and floor enamel, no less.

Tom

[Yeadon]

When McMullen was here he painted Rowan's rails with a white oil-based paint from Rustoleum. Small, cheap ($) can of paint and foam brushes. Looked great. Covered up all the lumber just fine. That whole boat is Rustoleum, I think. Always looks great. The finish on his boat always holds up fine, too.

Of course, I always say stuff like this, but then watch my actions. I always spend $$$ at Fisheries Supply and Seattle Marine on finish materials. For my Bartender build, I've used Pettit all the way, from a two part epoxy primer, to their single part ez-poxy, to their ez-sealer and Flagship. Big Food and Haverchuck were always Interlux. I actually really like the Pettit line. Pretty simple to work with. I just can't seem to go cheap. If I lived in a town that didn't even have a West Marine ... I guess I'd use Rustoleum ... or maybe I'd just order from Jamestown.

[David G]

I’ve discovered there are levels of quality to foam brushes. Some just fall apart after a few minutes. I usually tip and roll my varnish using 1/8” Tiz rollers and foam brushes. Works great. Same deal for paint.

This is important. Good foam brushes=no headaches. Bad ones=a pain in the transom.

[StevenBauer]

When McMullen was here he painted Rowan's rails with a white oil-based paint from Rustoleum. Small, cheap ($) can of paint and foam brushes. Looked great. Covered up all the lumber just fine. That whole boat is Rustoleum, I think. Always looks great. The finish on his boat always holds up fine, too.

Of course, I always say stuff like this, but then watch my actions. I always spend $$$ at Fisheries Supply and Seattle Marine on finish materials. For my Bartender build, I've used Pettit all the way, from a two part epoxy primer, to their single part ez-poxy, to their ez-sealer and Flagship. Big Food and Haverchuck were always Interlux. I actually really like the Pettit line. Pretty simple to work with. I just can't seem to go cheap. If I lived in a town that didn't even have a West Marine ... I guess I'd use Rustoleum ... or maybe I'd just order from Jamestown.

I’m pretty sure Kirby will ship to the West coast…

[StevenBauer]

I was going to say something about foreign paint then looked it up and see that Pettit paint is from Rockaway, NJ not ten minutes from where Mary’s mom lives. I drive by there all the time. I wonder if they have a factory store.

[jpatrick]

When McMullen was here he painted Rowan's rails with a white oil-based paint from Rustoleum. Small, cheap ($) can of paint and foam brushes. Looked great. Covered up all the lumber just fine. That whole boat is Rustoleum, I think. Always looks great. The finish on his boat always holds up fine, too.

Of course, I always say stuff like this, but then watch my actions. I always spend $$$ at Fisheries Supply and Seattle Marine on finish materials. For my Bartender build, I've used Pettit all the way, from a two part epoxy primer, to their single part ez-poxy, to their ez-sealer and Flagship. Big Food and Haverchuck were always Interlux. I actually really like the Pettit line. Pretty simple to work with. I just can't seem to go cheap. If I lived in a town that didn't even have a West Marine ... I guess I'd use Rustoleum ... or maybe I'd just order from Jamestown.

When are you gonna tell us about the Bartender?

Jeff

[Yeadon]

Lots of people know about it.

[StevenBauer]

Lots of people know about it.

The transport pics were epic!

[Nicholas Carey]

I’m pretty sure Kirby will ship to the West coast…

They will, but it's expensive.

The left coast equivalent is Marshall's Cove Marine Paints, from Bainbridge Island. Like Kirby's, traditional old-school enamels (and varnish).

https://www.marshallscovemarinepaint.com

[ron ll]

Another vote for Marshall’s Cove enamel, though I’ve not tried his varnish.

[jpatrick]

Lots of people know about it.

Tim, is there a thread that I missed? Bartenders are nice boats.

Jeff

[Yeadon]

Maybe next week I’ll do a vote on paint brands sold by Fisheries Supply. People can then suggest Kirby and Total Boat in the comments.

I’m also weighing “paint the bilge or not.” Lots of white oak down there that doesn’t want to be encased in epoxy.

[Yeadon]

Tim, is there a thread that I missed? Bartenders are nice boats.

Jeff

No build thread for this boat. It’s a lovely boat. A great PNW design. Come on by the house next time you make it over this way. I’ll give you the full tour.

[jpatrick]

No build thread for this boat. It’s a lovely boat. A great PNW design. Come on by the house next time you make it over this way. I’ll give you the full tour.

Thanks for that offer. If I get a chance, I'll take you up on it. Unfortunately all of our trips to the big city lately have been filled up with necessary, but non-boaty, activity.

Jeff

[pcford]

They will, but it's expensive.

The left coast equivalent is Marshall's Cove Marine Paints, from Bainbridge Island. Like Kirby's, traditional old-school enamels (and varnish).

https://www.marshallscovemarinepaint.com

A excellent choice, assuming your criterion for a marine enamel is an "olde tymey" label.
The hobbyists are easy to fool.

[Yeadon]

I doubt you’ve used Marshall’s Cove. Yeah?

[Canoeyawl]

They all look pretty good, but that is largely the skill of the person applying it.
I would select a varnish on the amount of UV inhibitors. Unless you really enjoy blocking (sanding) and redoing it...

[Yeadon]

How do you evaluate the amount and/or type of UV inhibitors in varnish?

[Canoeyawl]

Sometimes you can read the label
(UV inhibitors are the most expensive ingredient in varnish, or so I have been advised)

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[Yeadon]

Good catch. That reads like marketing material versus technical data. (Guilty as charged. Longtime copywriter here.) I’d love to see a “parts per unit” number or a description of the inhibitor itself. Even an SPF-type rating would do it.

[jpatrick]

I agree on the marketing aspect. All that claim to having six times more UV blockers means is that it is six times more able to block UV than air, or maybe water. Pure hype.

Jeff

[Canoeyawl]

In the case of Flagship (I called and asked, but it was along time ago) the 'six times' comparison was between Pettit's "Captains Varnish" and their "Flagship" brand. I don't know any other manufacturer that makes a similar statement, and plenty of folks have stated "Captains Varnish" is just fine. I think Captains is comparable to Man-of-War and other like contemporary brands.


(And the phone call was long enough ago that it may have been Z-Spar brand, before they were absorbed into Pettit. Long before the internet, and I was buying paint in bulk, 4 gallon cases at a go)

I think it was our very own "Chemist" that pointed out the cost of UV inhibitors.

I don't know the actual content of ingredients in any of them, or what the UV inhibitor might be, but if I can save one year of revarnish time, the price difference is well spent. That week spent doing the work has significant value to me.
As it is now 30 odd years later, I have a routine of spars one year, cabin sides another year, toe-rails and combings another year and finally the sheer plank the last year. So about a 5 year cycle which I can and have pushed out by a year with only a good blocking and sanding required to revarnish.
I buy the Flagship varnish by the gallon and decant it through a fine paint strainer into one pint paint cans which I get from the automotive paint store. The entire batch will last about 8-9 years. Once you get a good base down, two three coats is all it needs to keep it up.

[Yeadon]

So, based on votes - it appears our fellow forumites prefer less UV protection.

[pcford]

How many professional marine painters use the brands you are recommending? Just wondering.

[ron ll]

So no one else remembers Liquid Rawhide? I remember it being touted as a repairable varnish. What was it?

[wizbang 13]

I used to use Rawhide on Gig Harbors finest seiner "Pacific Maid", around 1986/87.
Pete Babich took a lotta pride in bringing the boat back "like new" each spring, so the Rawhide on the iron bark was stripped off and renewed each spring,soooo, I never got a chance to see how it held up in normal (not a commercial fishing boat) conditions.
It WAS similar to Cetol,insofar as it was applied on the thick side and did not dry crispy hard or fast.
b

[wizbang 13]

How many professional marine painters use the brands you are recommending? Just wondering.

No doubt, Epifane is a choice of many pros.
It is the preferred varnish on the worlds finest yachts that come to Antigua in the spring to have it all stripped off and re applied .
Blue Tape Season, I call it, the weeks before Antigua Charter Yacht Show. It's not "Race Week" or the "Classics" , but when the boats are on display to charter agents....where the money is.

[ron ll]

Hmmm. So a little googling on Liquid Rawhide shows it was a Behr product that ended with a $55 million class action lawsuit that said it promoted rather than inhibited mildew growth. Used mostly on log cabins and evidently named Raw-Hide as it used raw linseed oil.