‘Come visit us again and again. But for heaven’s sake, don’t come here to live’

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  • David G
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2003
    • 89688

    #31
    Re: ‘Come visit us again and again. But for heaven’s sake, don’t come here to live’

    Originally posted by sonofswen
    Millennials vs old people?
    Is the push for much denser living condition,( more ADU's. more apartments, tiny homes , etc.) is it driven by younger people and only the older folks who don't want that kind of existence? Blanket statement for what is happening in Oregon which is most likely my skewed perception? How much of the push for not saving open spaces is brought about by Developers? Thoughts while hiking in the Mr.Pisgah area early today.
    The urge toward sprawl is simply the market at work. Urban Growth Boundaries are government reeling in market forces when those forces would not result in the greatest good for the greatest number. A determination was made that the rich soil of the Willamette Valley was better suited for farming, and that too much of it had already been buried under concrete. So they took steps to keep it available for that higher use.

    And that UGB approach does require and result in higher densities in each of the affected cities. And it also adds to the 'unaffordable housing' issue by creating an artificial scarcity. But not nearly as much as some would have you believe. And yes, the developers were the ones lobbying against those land-use laws. Because there is money to be made in large sprawling housing developments. Lotsa money. So effek the 'greater good'... or the future.

    The real cause of unaffordable housing, though, is the decades-long squeeze of the middle class. Picture it this way... the graph of income/wealth distribution used to look like a football. Lots in the middle class, with a few very rich and very poor. These days, it's looking more like a dogbone, with that large, comfortable-not-rich middle - who could afford to buy a house - disappearing. And more squeezed into nouveax-riche territory, and more squeezed into income/food/housing insecurity territory.

    The Acton Dictum plays out.
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

    Comment

    • Ralphie Boy
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2014
      • 2113

      #32
      Re: ‘Come visit us again and again. But for heaven’s sake, don’t come here to live’

      My thoughts exactly. Is it ‘Woke’ developers that want to build large mansions as opposed to affordable housing? Was it ‘Woke’ Timber companies that clear-cut so much of Oregon’s forests?

      Comment

      • Osborne Russell
        Senior Member
        • Mar 2006
        • 27131

        #33
        Re: ‘Come visit us again and again. But for heaven’s sake, don’t come here to live’

        Originally posted by Ralphie Boy
        My thoughts exactly. Is it ‘Woke’ developers that want to build large mansions as opposed to affordable housing? Was it ‘Woke’ Timber companies that clear-cut so much of Oregon’s forests?
        No, but only because woke only recently became a thing. Now the capitalists have figured out that wokers can be split from liberals by appeals to ignorant bigoted SJW's. "Look at the old white privileged denying housing to the poor!"

        The Atlantic described YIMBYs in 2017 as a “growing presence.” Payment processing company Stripe gave California YIMBY $1 million in 2018; the label is especially popular in Silicon Valley. A new report from New York real estate publication the Real Deal documents the expanding presence of a YIMBY group called “Open New York” who “want the city to build its way out of the housing crisis.”
        - -
        It’s certainly true that YIMBY groups tend to embrace economic ideas associated with free-market thinkers like Rand. The idea, generally, is that the problem of affordable housing is a problem of supply. Thus zoning restrictions should be rewritten to allow for more development. There is little interest in having the government build new public housing. Instead, when YIMBYs say “we need more housing,” they mean “we need to allow developers to build what sells.” And even though they talk a lot about the need for affordable housing, they tend to be opposed to requiring developers to make housing affordable, assuming that the Invisible Hand of the free market will take care of that. You can see in Open New York’s FAQ section that they are (1) very cagey on the question of how committed they are to making new development affordable and (2) very defensive about Definitely Not Just Being Real Estate Industry Shills:


        Pro-development activists try to trick you into thinking it helps the poor to destroy neighborhoods to make way for luxury condos. We need a radically democratic preservationism.

        And you know it's gonna hit the fan big time when it's UC Berkeley:


        A superior-court judge ordered the school to throttle enrollment, because additional students might “result in an adverse change or alteration of the physical environment.” Short of a reprieve from the state supreme court, UC Berkeley said this month, it will have to issue roughly 5,000 additional rejection letters, slashing the size of its incoming cohort by a third . . . This is a town-gown dispute playing out on a national stage, one pitting homeowners against renters, the old against the young, and antidevelopment lefties against density lefties. It is also an object lesson in how impossible the housing crisis will be to solve if everyone is able to say no to building in their own backyard.

        . . . The solution is not really under dispute either: California needs to build more housing—dorms, apartment buildings, casitas, duplexes, fourplexes, anything to bring prices down for students and everyone else. The state “has been underbuilding for something like 30 years now,” Jenny Schuetz, an economist at the Brookings Institution, told me. “The amount low-income families are spending on housing is completely unsustainable.”

        https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-nimby/622927/
        "The solution is not really under dispute", can you dig it? Berkeley wants the revenue; developers want the profits.
        Last edited by Osborne Russell; 07-18-2022, 12:33 PM.
        Do not speak of "our institutions" unless you make them yours by acting on their behalf.

        Timothy Snyder, On Tyranny (2017)​

        Comment

        • sonofswen
          Senior Member
          • Apr 2019
          • 2487

          #34
          Re: ‘Come visit us again and again. But for heaven’s sake, don’t come here to live’

          Standards allowing more density and diverse kinds of housing are coming to Eugene one way or another."

          Eugene and other cities with a population of more than 25,000 must amend land use regulations to allow:
          • A duplex on each lot or parcel that is located within city limits, zoned for residential use and on land where regulations allow detached single-family dwellings.
          • Triplexes, quadplexes, cottage clusters and townhouses in residential zones within the city that allow detached single-family dwellings. Unlike duplexes, these do not have to be allowed on every lot.

          These types of houses are so-called "missing middle housing." While middle housing isn’t the same as affordable housing, it’s priced to meet the needs of younger people, older people and others who can’t afford a large, detached house of their own — something that’s becoming more difficult as housing prices increase at record-breaking rates.

          Minimum lot size

          • Duplex: 4,500 square feet under both minimum standards and the model code
          • Triplex: 5,000 square feet under minimum standards and 4,500 under the model code
          • Fourplex: 7,000 square feet under minimum standards and 4,500 under the model code
          • Rowhouse (townhouse): 1,500 square feet average under minimum standards and none under the model code
          • Cottage cluster: 7,000 square feet under minimum standards and 4,500 under the model

          Minimum required off-street parking

          • Duplex: 1 spot under minimum standards and 0 spots under the model code
          • Triplex: 1, 2 or 3 spots, depending on lot size, under minimum standards and 1 spot under the model code
          • Fourplex: 2, 3 or 4 spots, depending on lot size, under minimum standards and 1 spot under the model code
          • Rowhouse: 1 spot under minimum standards and 1 spot under the model code
          • Cottage cluster: 1 spot under minimum standards and 1 or 0 spots under the model code, depending on unit size

          Maximum lot coverage

          • Duplex: No less than the maximum lot coverage applicable to a single, detached dwelling under both
          • Triplex and fourplex: No less than the maximum lot coverage applicable to a single, detached dwelling under the minimum standards and not applicable in the model code
          • Rowhouse and cottage cluster: Not addressed

          Eugene's proposed code differs in a few ways, mostly by allowing smaller lot sizes and taller buildings.
          In most cases, it matches the model code for minimum lot size for a fourplex, rowhouse or cottage cluster.
          It allows smaller lot sizes for duplexes and triplexes — 2,250 square feet and 3,500 square feet, respectively.

          All of the above is taken for the Eugene Register Guard Newspaper.

          All areas of the city that have HOA's will be exempt.

          Comment

          • Osborne Russell
            Senior Member
            • Mar 2006
            • 27131

            #35
            Re: ‘Come visit us again and again. But for heaven’s sake, don’t come here to live’

            Originally posted by sonofswen
            Eugene and other cities with a population of more than 25,000 must amend land use regulations to allow . . .
            Taking away local control, is that the democratic socialist part?
            Do not speak of "our institutions" unless you make them yours by acting on their behalf.

            Timothy Snyder, On Tyranny (2017)​

            Comment

            • WI-Tom
              Seaside Expat
              • Jan 2009
              • 15901

              #36
              Re: ‘Come visit us again and again. But for heaven’s sake, don’t come here to live’

              Originally posted by Osborne Russell
              Taking away local control, is that the democratic socialist part?
              Are you actually unaware of the sweeping restrictions on local control that have been enacted by right-wing fascists (previously known as Republicans) at the state and local levels?

              "Local control" is a myth supported by the right because it enables them to sustain provincial xenophobic anti-sustainability policies that would otherwise be swept into the dustbins of history.

              Tom
              Ponoszenie konsekwencji!

              www.tompamperin.com

              Comment

              • sonofswen
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2019
                • 2487

                #37
                Re: ‘Come visit us again and again. But for heaven’s sake, don’t come here to live’

                Local Control?...as in Developers or Apartment conglomerates ( offering %15-20 interest on investment?) Did I mention Airbnb and the influence it has had on the city counsel vote, not to mention Large Construction companies from out of state who build 14 story rental building and then sell to out of state groups? Is all of that Benevolent Capitalism? The locals have small voices.

                Comment

                • Osborne Russell
                  Senior Member
                  • Mar 2006
                  • 27131

                  #38
                  Re: ‘Come visit us again and again. But for heaven’s sake, don’t come here to live’

                  Originally posted by WI-Tom
                  Are you actually unaware of the sweeping restrictions on local control that have been enacted by right-wing fascists (previously known as Republicans) at the state and local levels?

                  "Local control" is a myth supported by the right because it enables them to sustain provincial xenophobic anti-sustainability policies that would otherwise be swept into the dustbins of history.

                  Tom
                  Are you actually unaware that wokers are helping them do it?

                  Originally posted by WI-Tom
                  "Local control" is a myth supported by the right because it enables them to sustain provincial xenophobic anti-sustainability policies that would otherwise be swept into the dustbins of history.
                  Local control was the law.

                  Plenty of room for more people soon as we clear-cut Wisconsin. Johnny Marxist speaks! I don't know how you manage to restrain yourself from adding "old and white" to "provincial" etc.
                  Do not speak of "our institutions" unless you make them yours by acting on their behalf.

                  Timothy Snyder, On Tyranny (2017)​

                  Comment

                  • WI-Tom
                    Seaside Expat
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 15901

                    #39
                    Re: ‘Come visit us again and again. But for heaven’s sake, don’t come here to live’

                    Are you actually unaware of the sweeping restrictions on local control that have been enacted by right-wing fascists (previously known as Republicans) at the state and local levels?
                    Originally posted by Osborne Russell
                    Are you actually unaware that wokers are helping them do it?
                    That sounds a bit like asking "Are you actually unaware that 2+2=5?" but if you have evidence, post it. That would be a nice change of pace from your curmudgeonly ranting shtick.

                    Originally posted by Osborne Russell
                    Johnny Marxist speaks! I don't know how you manage to restrain yourself from adding "old and white" to "provincial" etc.
                    Well, for one thing, you know virtually nothing about me in real life, whatsoever. So, there's that...

                    For another, there are plenty of young white provincial xenophobes around. I don't feel a need to discriminate by age.

                    Tom
                    Ponoszenie konsekwencji!

                    www.tompamperin.com

                    Comment

                    • David G
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2003
                      • 89688

                      #40
                      Re: ‘Come visit us again and again. But for heaven’s sake, don’t come here to live’

                      Some among us really do seem to be showing signs --

                      David G
                      Harbor Woodworks
                      https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

                      "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

                      Comment

                      • David G
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2003
                        • 89688

                        #41
                        Re: ‘Come visit us again and again. But for heaven’s sake, don’t come here to live’

                        David G
                        Harbor Woodworks
                        https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

                        "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

                        Comment

                        • David G
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2003
                          • 89688

                          #42
                          Re: ‘Come visit us again and again. But for heaven’s sake, don’t come here to live’

                          David G
                          Harbor Woodworks
                          https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

                          "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

                          Comment

                          • David G
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2003
                            • 89688

                            #43
                            Re: ‘Come visit us again and again. But for heaven’s sake, don’t come here to live’

                            I include this one because the beach is one other thing we've always tried to protect. The entire lengthm up to the high-tide-line, is considered public land. Part of the state highway system. First put in place in 1912, iirc, and I worked against a big push by developers in the late 60's to repeal/weaken it. Happy to say, they failed.

                            David G
                            Harbor Woodworks
                            https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

                            "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

                            Comment

                            • David G
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2003
                              • 89688

                              #44
                              Re: ‘Come visit us again and again. But for heaven’s sake, don’t come here to live’

                              Here's one that reminds me a bit of some BilgeRats --

                              David G
                              Harbor Woodworks
                              https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

                              "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

                              Comment

                              • Ian McColgin
                                Senior Member
                                • Apr 1999
                                • 51639

                                #45
                                Re: ‘Come visit us again and again. But for heaven’s sake, don’t come here to live’

                                Schudwuler

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