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Thread: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

  1. #1
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    Default Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Who else is disappointed that Biden is going? We all suspect it is beg to increase oil production. He is claiming he is doing this as a reset. How does one do a reset with a murderous ruthless thug who actively has undermined human rights across the world, openly terrorizes his neighbors, interferes with US elections and is linked to others who plotted, recruited and financed the 911 attacks?

    On the 2020 campaign trail, Biden had called the oil-rich kingdom a “pariah” in response to US intelligence groups’ conclusion that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman bin Abdulaziz ordered the killing of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi. Biden had resisted directly meeting MBS. But July 13-16, he’ll travel to the Middle East. He’ll visit the Saudi city of Jeddah and meet about 10 Arab heads of state and travel to Israel and the occupied Palestinian territory.

    When the decision to travel to Saudi Arabia was first reported earlier in June, the trip was framed as about finding any way possible to lower oil prices while the US leads a charge against Russia, a major oil producer. But energy experts say that even with Saudi Arabia’s spare capacity and influence among other oil-producing countries in the region, there is no tap that can be quickly turned on.

    Considering Biden's recent polling, this trip to Saudi Arabia could very well make him lose more support with his democratic base and giving ammunition to his opponents, taking nothing home except promises of more oil later and giving murderous MBS general pass of the murders, granting him prestige and credibility of top world leader.

    As Biden used to say in disbelief to the outrageous, Come On Man!
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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    beyond disappointed... just baffled. I see no upside and plenty of downside.

    once upon a time I may have given some benefit of doubt and said that there must be things which we the general public do NOT know which make this thing make sense, but that time has passed. This is just dumb.
    "Visionary" is he who in every egg sees a carbonara.

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    There are many reasons for good diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia but pleading for lower prices so we can continue profligate consumption is not one of them.
    1. Saudi Arabia does not have the spare production capacity to lower prices.
    2. We should have a better strategy for dealing with the problems of oil consumption in 2022 than acting like a baby cookie monster. “MORE! ME WANT MORE!”

    My guess is that the MIC wants to make nice and Biden is rolling over for it like Obama did in Afghanistan.

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    I fear that LeeG is right. Never underestimate the power of the MIC.

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    There are many reasons for good diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia but pleading for lower prices so we can continue profligate consumption is not one of them.
    1. Saudi Arabia does not have the spare production capacity to lower prices.
    2. We should have a better strategy for dealing with the problems of oil consumption in 2022 than acting like a baby cookie monster. “MORE! ME WANT MORE!”

    My guess is that the MIC wants to make nice and Biden is rolling over for it like Obama did in Afghanistan.
    Saudi Arabia is the USA's best military equipment customer. Guess who's second best?
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Quote Originally Posted by RFNK View Post
    Saudi Arabia is the USA's best military equipment customer. Guess who's second best?
    I’d need the info at my fingertips to know. I think Israel might exceed Saudi Arabia if you include military aid. Not sure if this is the best source but it’s what I googled up.

    https://www.sipri.org/sites/default/...5_fy2019_0.pdf

    oh damn this is a can of worms to figure out.

    https://www.state.gov/fiscal-year-20...defense-trade/
    Last edited by LeeG; 07-12-2022 at 11:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Does Israel buy it from the USA?
    or do we jus give it to em?
    I think we give em money, but it must be spent on warcrap.I mean warcraft.

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    Does Israel buy it from the USA?
    or do we jus give it to em?
    I think we give em money, but it must be spent on warcrap.I mean warcraft.
    They buy a few billion and we give a few billion in military stuff. In the links above it looks like about $50 billion in gov’t to gov’t sales and $125 billion in bidness to gov’t/? sales. So Ukraine was a big boost for bidness w around $50 billion about half of which is war fighting stuff.

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Maybe he is going to try end the war in Yemen? Though by his actions, does not appear to be the case.

    Biden Claims He Wants to End the Yemen War. His Actions Suggest Otherwise. (truthout.org)

    Kowtowing to the Saudis for cheaper oil, just so his domestic subjects get cheaper fuel, in order to win a re-election, while at the same time, barking at Germany for wanting to come to some kind of energy deal with Russia in order to prevent a collapse of Germanies industrial output/import that has global implications.

    Either dealing with a foreign state that is responsible for mass killings of civilians, is right or wrong.

    It is also insulting and the height of hypocrisy to complain about starvation and hunger via grain being held up from Ukraine, while the US had a scorch earth policy on Syrian wheat and barley.

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim 68 View Post
    Maybe he is going to try end the war in Yemen? Though by his actions, does not appear to be the case.

    Biden Claims He Wants to End the Yemen War. His Actions Suggest Otherwise. (truthout.org)

    Kowtowing to the Saudis for cheaper oil, just so his domestic subjects get cheaper fuel, in order to win a re-election, while at the same time, barking at Germany for wanting to come to some kind of energy deal with Russia in order to prevent a collapse of Germanies industrial output/import that has global implications.

    Either dealing with a foreign state that is responsible for mass killings of civilians, is right or wrong.

    It is also insulting and the height of hypocrisy to complain about starvation and hunger via grain being held up from Ukraine, while the US had a scorch earth policy on Syrian wheat and barley.
    It’s complicated being that shiny city on a hill.

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Yemen? They are brown and wear towels on their heads.

    Saudi women? ditto.

    I feel sorry for Biden. He has to choose between cozying up to Venezuela, the Saudis, or Iran. Given how the Republicans would react to each, he is stuck with Saudi.

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Yemen? They are brown and wear towels on their heads.

    Saudi women? ditto.

    I feel sorry for Biden. He has to choose between cozying up to Venezuela, the Saudis, or Iran. Given how the Republicans would react to each, he is stuck with Saudi.
    I wonder what the next idiotic talking point will be after Energy Independence has shown to be nonsense.

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    As long as we need oil, we have to make nice with those who have it, or some of them, anyway. Unpleasant, but until we have an alternative, what are you going to do? Realpolitik is nasty sometimes. It complicates things when a major oil producer tries to invade and conquer one of its neighbors.

    And note how Vadim 68 in engaged in another round of whataboutwhatabout in an attempt to defend Mr Putin's imperial ambitions.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    As long as we need oil, we have to make nice with those who have it, or some of them, anyway. Unpleasant, but until we have an alternative, what are you going to do? Realpolitik is nasty sometimes. It complicates things when a major oil producer tries to invade and conquer one of its neighbors.

    And note how Vadim 68 in engaged in another round of whataboutwhatabout in an attempt to defend Mr Putin's imperial ambitions.
    “an alternative”

    sure

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post

    And note how Vadim 68 in engaged in another round of whataboutwhatabout in an attempt to defend Mr Putin's imperial ambitions.
    You must be confusing me with someone else, as i note you have no quotes to attribute to me. I have previously stated that what is happening in Ukraine is abhorrent.

    It would be appropriate to remove your comment or amend your statement.

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    and giving murderous MBS general pass of the murders, granting him prestige and credibility of top world leader.
    I'm not that sure that Biden's visit to the Middle East carries much prestige for their Saudi hosts.

    In decades past, the United States were very much seen as 'The Shining City on the Hill'. An open culture where hard work was rewarded by success. The fact that the leader of such a wonderful country would take the time to drop by and meet with the leader of a lesser place was truly a matter of celebration.

    These days the world's views of the US are less shaped by Hollywood than they are by the internet and 24 hour news channels. The Cosby Show has been displaced by Black Lives Matter. Good ol' country boys are no longer Bo and Luke Duke, they are Maga nutcases with guns.

    The last presidential visit to the region that caused any real excitement was when Barack Obama was here in 2013. By then people had a far more realistic view of how America was so the excitement was not that we were being visited by the leader of the greatest country in the world, it was more that he represented an opportunity that would allow the US to perhaps begin to return to being the bastion of freedom and opportunity that we all knew, loved and by then so sorely missed.

    It was the belief that where the US led, other countries would eventually follow. Obama represented hope.

    Alas it was not to be.

    Trump was out here. There was very little interest other than perhaps that he might make a fool of himself. The suspicion was that the visit was more about future Trump Hotel and Golf Resorts than anything of political significance.

    Biden's visit? His Saudi hosts will afford him the respect and ceremony befitting a leader of one of the world's greatest nations. They'll probably ink the deal on a few Boeings or F35s as a sign of friendship, but the reasons for the visit are as clear to us here as they are to y'all Stateside.

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Who knows, maybe related.

    https://www.businessinsider.in/stock...w/92554389.cms

    While the US has imposed an embargo on Russian oil and the EU is phasing in a partial ban, there are no direct sanctions that would stop Egypt from importing, then selling, Russian oil products to neighboring countries.

    But the move helps Russia bypass efforts to choke off its revenue from energy exports, which have already found eager buyers in China and India.

    "Saudi Arabia has indeed been ramping up imports of Russian fuel oils as there are no sanctions preventing this from happening," Peter La Cour, an oil analyst at Energy Aspects, told Bloomberg. "Russian fuel oil is the cheapest barrel available to fuel Saudi summer power generation demand and makes economic sense."

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    $5-10 dollar gas has a huge range of benefits for many things we care about. Air quality, congestion, fuel efficiency, traffic deaths, cost of new roads, solar deployment, electric cars, reduction in consumerism, health, etc, etc, etc.

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    ok, maybe not MIC and probably not seriously pleading for more production as that schtick is done. Maybe it is an effort to improve relations in anticipation of future disruptions in the oil markets. What? Not possible, peace is about to break out and a billion new drivers in China will drive less so we can drive like it’s 1999.

    One thing is for sure. Absolutely no straight talk with Joe Six Pack in Amurica about his oil dependency. Biden’s idiotic fuel tax holiday is proof of that.

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    $5-10 dollar gas has a huge range of benefits for many things we care about. Air quality, congestion, fuel efficiency, traffic deaths, cost of new roads, solar deployment, electric cars, reduction in consumerism, health, etc, etc, etc.
    Except with fuel tax not changed in 28 yrs the extra funding needed for transportation infrastructure is coming from deficit spending and not users pay as you go as intended. If we had gradually increased the fuel tax over decades the percentage fluctuation at the pump would be less and the used cars available would be more efficient. But maybe Americans function better with shocks and reaction than planning and preperation.

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    I recommend this book, published in 1983, for anyone seriously interested in delving into the background of why Biden is going. The cover photo tells the story in a picture for those who don't have time for the words. Only the faces have changed since it was taken.


    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    That was good Ted!

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Cardi B. gives Joe advice on this MBS meating. (adult language warning)

    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 07-15-2022 at 10:27 AM.
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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    he can't even read a teleprompter, why are we sending him anywhere to talk to anyone?

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    As long as we need oil, we have to make nice with those who have it, or some of them, anyway. Unpleasant, but until we have an alternative, what are you going to do? Realpolitik is nasty sometimes. It complicates things when a major oil producer tries to invade and conquer one of its neighbors.

    And note how Vadim 68 in engaged in another round of whataboutwhatabout in an attempt to defend Mr Putin's imperial ambitions.

    Hello? Canada calling.

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    Hello? Canada calling.
    Yeah, but you folks don’t buy enough weapons and your tar sands aren’t exactly a choke point for world exports like the Middle East.

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    he can't even read a teleprompter, why are we sending him anywhere to talk to anyone?
    Who would you rather represent the US?

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Who would you rather represent the US?

    AOC is a lot easier to look at than the past few decades of wrinklies.

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    "How does one do a reset with a murderous ruthless thug who actively has undermined human rights across the world, openly terrorizes his neighbors, interferes with US elections ..."

    Wow. Look a little closer to home eh?

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim 68 View Post
    AOC is a lot easier to look at than the past few decades of wrinklies.
    Buttegieg has a smooth face.

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    "How does one do a reset with a murderous ruthless thug who actively has undermined human rights across the world, openly terrorizes his neighbors, interferes with US elections ..."

    Wow. Look a little closer to home eh?
    Pot and kettles. I don't remember British assassins directed by the queen to cut up Journalists and dissidents recently. The English sure liked to draw and quarter back in the day.

    LeeG got it right. Ethics and morals no longer matter even with the high pulpit defenders of human freedom when the MIC needs to be fed.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 07-15-2022 at 03:23 PM.
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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    Pot and kettles. I don't remember British assassins directed by the queen to cut up Journalists and dissidents. They sure like to draw and quarter back in the day.
    I am only a third British these days.. was never truly 100% as I left the UK when I was 8 years old, returning only to finish my education and then some years of work now and then. I don't hold much allegiance. My point was you OP could easily been about your former president.

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    I am only a third British these days.. was never truly 100% as I left the UK when I was 8 years old, returning only to finish my education and then some years of work now and then. I don't hold much allegiance. My point was you OP could easily been about your former president.
    I think you can still hold your head high. All can see you as a citizen of Europe. Your efforts this year to the greater good are quite admirable.

    Trump was a tool, an embarrassment and a criminal of the state.

    Biden still likes the old glory hole allowing anyone to stand behind the fence. He should be ashamed. But obviously he is not.

    A60ED200-83EB-4C2A-A718-9D766123FDBF.jpg

    57EEBCD8-FF5A-4577-9BDA-C9FBC5920FA9.jpg
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 07-15-2022 at 04:19 PM.
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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    Pot and kettles. I don't remember British assassins directed by the queen to cut up Journalists and dissidents recently. The English sure liked to draw and quarter back in the day.
    .
    That was mostly religious precedent, taught to the British by the best.
    How else should you conduct a witch hunt, anyway?

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    Default Re: Joe Biden to visit Saudi Arabia: Come On Man!

    well, ted, i can't entirely disagree.

    if joe were jimmy carter, he wouldn't go.

    and the next president would be the next ronald reagan, updated with all the latest "conservative" ideology.

    biden has been told, it's the economy, stupid. and i guess this is what he feels forced to do. what a crummy job, to be potus.

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