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Thread: Even Model Railroaders?

  1. #1
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    Default Even Model Railroaders?

    https://www.rawstory.com/racist-model-train-diorama/


    Just will never understand the mindset of somebody that would do that.

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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    why would they blur a piece of plastic?
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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    Ok, found it uncensored

    download.jpg

    Would someone please explain my innocent mind what makes this figurine fall into a specific ethnic background? Looks not too different from the executors to me.

    That's all a digression to "wtf, why would they ever hang anyone in a model railway at all", of course
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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    why would they blur a piece of plastic?
    My guess is that they don't want to show such a despicable image while wanting people to understand how despicable it is.

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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    You have to wonder about the IQ of the maroons who built it, and of the Mall management who hosted it.

    Eff the 1st amendment, you need hate crime laws with teeth.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    Quote Originally Posted by WszystekPoTrochu View Post
    why would they blur a piece of plastic?

    The image of white men extrajudicially hanging a black man is considered extremely vulgar in the 21st century USA.

    Even an empty hangman’s noose displayed in public, gives a strong reaction. Black Americans were lynched all over the country until recent times. It’s our National shame.

    Displays like the train display shows someone is trying to send a clear message of White Power.
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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    I have wonderful memories of model railways from my childhood.

    The thought of someone including this in a display is so obscenely sickening and utterly unnecessary that I can only hope everyone associated with it feels the consequences including the mall that allowed it.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    I still play with trains, attend railroad shows, exhibit in them, and follow the 12"/1' scale trains as well. I'm completely shocked that the other model railroaders and the sponsors of the show tolerated that offensive in so many ways diorama. What you permit, you promote.

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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    some things are not appropriate to express or illustrate except in very specific ways in very specific contexts.
    Last edited by L.W. Baxter; 07-12-2022 at 01:26 PM.

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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    well, on the other hand , it is representing our real actual history, which folks on the right usually want to supress, no?
    yea it makes me sick...the toy photographer....god damnit

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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    Quote Originally Posted by wizbang 13 View Post
    well, on the other hand , it is representing our real actual history, which folks on the right usually want to supress, no?
    A guy in a stove pipe hat and frock coat stood in front of a big yellow digger? Yer right.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    The only effective protest is to spend your $$$ elsewhere. That will get the mall management's attention, bring press to the issue, shame the club, and ultimately isolate the individuals responsible. I hope the protesters can organize an effective boycott.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post
    A guy in a stove pipe hat and frock coat stood in front of a big yellow digger? Yer right.
    The way I understand it that's a modular display, many modellers build a manageable (in transport, time and cost) chunk of a diorama that's then put together on events only. The builder is usually free to do almost anything he fancies, given he keeps the module length and shape within a grid. Unless a community agrees on an era, the dioramas will be anachronistic by default. Even more so with the rolling stock. But don't quote me on that, I've never got to the point of actually building anything.

    Well anyway, the digger is on a platform wagon. Anachronistic rolling stock is standard. The... gallows fan may or may not have built his section wild west themed. He may or may not have brought a time appropriate model steam engine puffing white smoke with him. If it's a community event, it's still expected 90% of time he'll share his track with an orange dash 9
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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    that's not a lynching scene, it's an execution by hanging scene.

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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    that's not a lynching scene, it's an execution by hanging scene.
    oh?

    what's the woman doing on the platform?

    the problem with the model is that the intention is not clear. this sort of subject needs to be handled in a certain way; with clarity of intent, and sensitivity. not like this.

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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    that's not a lynching scene, it's an execution by hanging scene.
    Now you're debating levels of obscenity.

    I'll tell you this much - the head in the noose doesn't look very white to me. The executioner does.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Peerie Maa View Post

    Eff the 1st amendment, you need hate crime laws with teeth.
    That pretty much explains the revolutionary war.

    And what “hate crime” was committed here? Tasteless, yes. Stupid, of course. But a crime?
    Fight Entropy, build a wooden boat!

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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    The figure at the near right corner of the scaffold is a photographer with a camera on a tripod. It does appear to be an execution rather than a lynching. However, it *is* in terribly bad taste, regardless of the details.

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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Hazard View Post
    The figure at the near right corner of the scaffold is a photographer with a camera on a tripod. It does appear to be an execution rather than a lynching. However, it *is* in terribly bad taste, regardless of the details.
    I've seen some very clever constructs of firemen putting out a fire, skaters on ponds, etc. For the life of me I cannot imagine how or why this was judged to be entertaining.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Hazard View Post
    The figure at the near right corner of the scaffold is a photographer with a camera on a tripod. It does appear to be an execution rather than a lynching. However, it *is* in terribly bad taste, regardless of the details.
    ah geez, yeah, a photographer.

    i agree with reynard that it is tasteless and stupid, but we don't need law to address this sort of thing. the railroad modeler has got the message by now, i reckon.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    ah geez, yeah, a photographer.

    i agree with reynard that it is tasteless and stupid, but we don't need law to address this sort of thing. the railroad modeler has got the message by now, i reckon.
    I beg to differ:
    Any crime can be prosecuted as a hate crime if the offender has either:

    • demonstrated hostility based on race, religion, disability, sexual orientation or transgender identity

    Or

    • been motivated by hostility based on race, religion, disability, sexual orientation or transgender identity

    Someone can be a victim of more than one type of hate crime.

    These crimes are covered by legislation (Crime and Disorder Act 1998 and section 66 of the Sentencing Act 2020) which allows prosecutors to apply for an uplift in sentence for those convicted of a hate crime.
    The police and the CPS have agreed the following definition for identifying and flagging hate crimes:
    "Any criminal offence which is perceived by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice, based on a person's disability or perceived disability; race or perceived race; or religion or perceived religion; or sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation or transgender identity or perceived transgender identity."
    There is no legal definition of hostility so we use the everyday understanding of the word which includes ill-will, spite, contempt, prejudice, unfriendliness, antagonism, resentment and dislike.
    https://www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/hate-crime

    In Part I of the M1Public Order Act 1986 (offences relating to public order), after section 4, there shall be inserted the following section—
    “4A Intentional harassment, alarm or distress.
    (1)A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he—
    (a)uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or
    (b)displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,
    thereby causing that or another person harassment, alarm or distress.
    (2)An offence under this section may be committed in a public or a private place, except that no offence is committed where the words or behaviour are used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation is displayed, by a person inside a dwelling and the person who is harassed, alarmed or distressed is also inside that or another dwelling.
    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga...33/section/154

    My bolding.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    so we should only make models of things that are tasteful? just pretend certain things never happened....? so hangings are no longer part of historical fact? let's say it was a lynching with all the stereotypical feature (noose, tree, torches, clan members, etc), can that model not be made no matter the context b/c it's 'offensive'? would the objectors in that article go the the birmingham civil rights museum and be offended by all of the content in there?


    i would suggest the offended people use a little more context and a lot less race bait.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    so we should only make models of things that are tasteful? just pretend certain things never happened....? so hangings are no longer part of historical fact? let's say it was a lynching with all the stereotypical feature (noose, tree, torches, clan members, etc), can that model not be made no matter the context b/c it's 'offensive'? would the objectors in that article go the the birmingham civil rights museum and be offended by all of the content in there?


    i would suggest the offended people use a little more context and a lot less race bait.
    Motives my boy. Think about the motivation for assembling and displaying that model.
    1)A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress,
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    i would suggest the offended people use a little more context and a lot less race bait.
    You are bending over backwards to excuse what was at the very least a bit of very poor judgement. It was unnecessary and uncalled for.
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    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    FWIW, it looks far more like a judicial execution than a lynching, with an official-looking gallows and trap door and all that. Lynchings were generally improvised.

    For our friend from Poland, 'lynching', extra-judicial killings by mobs, usually of black men suspected of some crime or other, were surprisingly common in the US in the post-Reconstruction 19th and early 20th century, mainly but not exclusively in the ex-Confederacy. They were rarely if ever prosecuted by the authorities, and more often encouraged. It was one method of maintaining white rule, and keeping the black population subjugated. One of the nastier features of US history, definitely, and sort of the prototype of that kind of oppression.

    The model is a spectacularly stupid thing to put in a public model railroad display, but I don't think it should rise to the level of a crime.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    "any crime can be prosecuted as a hate crime if..."

    yeah well, first you need a crime. in the u.s., there would have to be very specific criteria met to make a diorama of figurines criminal in nature. this one doesn't come anywhere close to any such criteria.

    we are perfectly capable of correcting inappropriate behavior without calling the cops. we do it all the time. this "news" story is an example of how it works.

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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    i doubt it fits into the motif of the model collaboration, but i could see it fitting into an old western town scene which would place well in some railroad models. i do not see any "hate crime" here.

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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    Most model railroaders like to create an imaginary world made up of nostalgia and imagination. Most model railroaders have a “back story” for each feature on the layout.

    Which is why I find this so very horrible.
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  29. #29
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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    so we should only make models of things that are tasteful? just pretend certain things never happened....? so hangings are no longer part of historical fact? let's say it was a lynching with all the stereotypical feature (noose, tree, torches, clan members, etc), can that model not be made no matter the context b/c it's 'offensive'? would the objectors in that article go the the birmingham civil rights museum and be offended by all of the content in there?


    i would suggest the offended people use a little more context and a lot less race bait.
    funny. you mention a context in which a diorama depicting a hanging might indeed be appropriate: at the birmingham civil rights museum. that is an appropriate venue, where the educational intent would be made clear, and the setting would provide clear meaning and purpose.

    you imply that the model railroad display and the museum display are both equally valid, that we can't eliminate one without eliminating the other. but we can. because...context.

    and in the next sentence, you suggest that others should "use a little more context and a little less race bait". i suggest you understand your own logic first, and use a little less reactionary defense of the indefensible.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    Maybe include a trail of dead Chinese workers alongside the track for more historical accuracy.

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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post

    The model is a spectacularly stupid thing to put in a public model railroad display, but I don't think it should rise to the level of a crime.
    Well that depends.
    1. Are the modelers spectacularly stupid, with a low social awareness and a lower IQ?
    2. Did the modelers realize the impact of their diorama, and build and display it knowing its impact?

    What is more likely?
    Then consider the UK's attitude to such deliberate intent to cause hurt, with the US who frankly could not give a damn about lots of harm in its society.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    i doubt it fits into the motif of the model collaboration, but i could see it fitting into an old western town scene which would place well in some railroad models. i do not see any "hate crime" here.
    i don't see a hate crime, either.

    i can imagine a scenario that might rise to the level of criminal: consider a diorama of a recognizable clarence thomas being lynched in effigy, put up in public. that might be something i would want to see legal penalty for. though a heavy does of public scorn and general shunning might be just as effective.

    ask kathy griffin how things went for her after the bloody head of donald trump image she posted. destroyed her career and social life for several years. struggled with anxiety, depression, addiction. permanently damaged herself. no jail time needed.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    The scene makes no sense at many levels. Anyone know what it was supposed to represent?

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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter
    ... the railroad modeler has got the message by now, i reckon.
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  35. #35
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    Default Re: Even Model Railroaders?

    Quote Originally Posted by AlanMc View Post
    i doubt it fits into the motif of the model collaboration, but i could see it fitting into an old western town scene which would place well in some railroad models. i do not see any "hate crime" here.
    If a steam locomotive were passing a town in the wild west with a shoot out in the street, that might be inoffensive to most since it's viewed as having more to do with movies than reality. This just isn't and there really is no way you can change that.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

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