Happy 4th to my American friends

[TomF]

It's easy to lose this amidst all the chaos and conflict of American politics and social polarization, but you guys do live in a place of serious wonder and promise. Where the centuries-long reality of various types of conflict and division is in fact matched by the centuries-long history of gifts you've given not merely to yourselves, but to the world.

Wishing you the best of days, and an accelerated renewal of all that's been best about America. And can be again.

[Osborne Russell]

Thanks, bro.

Did England ever claim the right to control all trade with Canada, import and export, monopoly? If so, what was Canada's response to England's claim?

[SKIP KILPATRICK]

Thanks Tom!

"Don't give up the Ship!"

May we find peace in this new year!

[Osborne Russell]

What was the moral basis of England's claim of moral right to monopoly of trade?

There's independence, and then there's independence. What is meant by independence?

Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world . . .

. . . For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies . . .

What's the difference between this and Russia over Ukraine?

[The Q]

Thanks, bro.

Did England ever claim the right to control all trade with Canada, import and export, monopoly? If so, what was Canada's response to England's claim?

England never did, because from 1603 the crown's of England, Wales, ireland and Scotland were united,
From 1707 the parliaments of England, Wales and Scotland were united,
And from 1801 till 1921 Irelands parliament joined in as well.

[Gerarddm]

Lawrence's " don't give up the ship" ( Chesapeake vs Shannon ) was followed by " scuttle her".

Our ship has serious damn leaks, and half the crew is eagerly boring holes in the hull. It is problemartic how many more of therse we will be able to celebrate.

[Osborne Russell]

England never did, because from 1603 the crown's of England, Wales, ireland and Scotland were united,
From 1707 the parliaments of England, Wales and Scotland were united,
And from 1801 till 1921 Irelands parliament joined in as well.

How was this material to American independence, or Canada's relation to England? The original question: Did England ever claim the right to control all trade with Canada, import and export, monopoly? If so, what was Canada's response to England's claim?

I don't fault England's colonialist claims as irrational. England put up the blood and treasure. I fault England's colonialist claims from the standpoint of human rights. I credit England with having planted . . . by being us, in the first place . . . a people with the cultural history to insist upon the right to independence, on a certain basis -- the right to self-government. On a claim of moral right.

[TomF]

Osborne, that's probably for another thread. What I'd intended here was merely a "happy birthday, USA", coupled with a gentle bit of encouragement and appreciation from a non-USA citizen.

If you'd like to have a discussion about colonial relationships between mother country and colony, we can perhaps have one on another thread.

[bob winter]

Happy 4th!

[TomF]

My tattoo says "hold slow"...

[David G]

Thanks. Yes, it's all too easy to forget history, forget the ambitious project the FF's embarked upon, and sag hopelessly into a recency-bias-inspired ennui or despair.

But you know my response to that. The FF's set us on this path. It is a righteous path. But the work's not done. Don't Agonize, ORGANIZE --

[Osborne Russell]

Osborne, that's probably for another thread. What I'd intended here was merely a "happy birthday, USA", coupled with a gentle bit of encouragement and appreciation from a non-USA citizen.

If you'd like to have a discussion about colonial relationships between mother country and colony, we can perhaps have one on another thread.

OK, and, thanks.

[David G]

[Robbie 2]

Best wishes to you all.