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Thread: A victory for big game animals

  1. #36
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    Default Re: A victory for big game animals

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    About as sporting as putting a bolt through a cows brain. Glorifying it seems wrong. As does shooting living things for fun or because it’s “manly.” Maybe time to move away from this mindset?
    What does putting a bolt through a cows brain have to do with what the man in the OP did? Or, In fact have to do with celebrating his murder?

  2. #37
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    Default Re: A victory for big game animals

    Yes, but it’s not the hunters who will destroy the species, but the poachers. The hunters want to preserve the species for their own long term interest.

  3. #38
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    Default Re: A victory for big game animals

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    Protected areas developed and descended from the idea of hunting reserves for the wealthy.
    Yes. And labor descended from slavery. Progress has been made.

    vast swaths of wetlands In North America were purchased and preserved not as parks but as a means of keeping waterfowl abundant for hunting
    Including by exterminating "vermin" like top predators.

  4. #39
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    Default Re: A victory for big game animals

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Yes. And labor descended from slavery. Progress has been made.



    Including by exterminating "vermin" like top predators.
    Yes, progress has been made and will continue, both for better and worse. African countries have decided that part of their preservation method is to allow limited and highly controlled hunts. That money is used to preserve and help combat poaching. If other means were better they would use those means.


    “vermin” were and are controlled yes. The moment people became the dominant species worldwide, there really has been no “wild”. It’s all controlled and limited to some degree. There is no longer, and cannot be, a “natural balance”.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: A victory for big game animals

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    This guy didn't deserve to be murdered, but I can't agree with killing for sport, and I can't agree that sport hunters are moral people, especially when they're hunting highly endangered species. There are other ways to support the local economy.
    Are we the ones to tell those local economies what they should and should not do? That attitude seems common here. I would suggest you do a little reading on how African hunts are administered. It’s not a free for all.

  6. #41
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    Default Re: A victory for big game animals

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    They will not and do not.

    No-one will pay $70000 to take a photo
    The two week trip I took in Africa in February would have cost any of you at least 75k a person just to take photos. One can do it cheaper with less luxury but usually for less than 20k, more marginal access and 3 star accommodations.
    Going to shoot some bred big five game or animal for shooting on a private reserve is messed up but there is some rational to it. These reserves employ a good deal of the local villages, provide for primary and secondary school education and are part of training a nation in sustainable future where national prosperity, nature is secured, tourism dollars flow and the pride of people are intertwined.

    Last time I was in Baja I went deep sea fishing in Cabo San Lucas. We had a great day of catching tuna. I usually am a catch and release guy but we wanted to bring some fished for dinner that night. We just about to rap up when we hooked a large Blue Marlin. I was thrilled as this prospect and brought her in myself. I never had caught on of those before and wanted to see it close up. We brought it close to the boat to take a look and photo. I handed over the line to the crew to grab my camera. before I turned around the crew hand gotten a spiked club and hit the magnificent animal. The joy of the moment was gone and remorse and guilt filled my heart. The rare mystical fish was dead, The colors faded from it body, we were not going to eat it and its death was all because I wanted to take a photo. I do not care if I go charter fishing again.
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  7. #42
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    Default Re: A victory for big game animals

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    This guy didn't deserve to be murdered, but I can't agree with killing for sport, and I can't agree that sport hunters are moral people, especially when they're hunting highly endangered species. There are other ways to support the local economy.
    Are we the ones to tell those local economies what they should and should not do? That attitude seems common here. I would suggest you do a little reading on how African hunts are administered. Itís not a free for all.

  8. #43
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    Default Re: A victory for big game animals

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    One can do it cheaper with less luxury but usually for less than 20k, more marginal access and 3 star accommodations.
    Come now. You can do it for $100 a day, or even less. For $1000 a day you get top luxury.

  9. #44
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    Default Re: A victory for big game animals

    Many places in the world have thriving multi billion$ tourism industries that do not include hunting and make a $70K hunting tag a drop in the tourism ocean. On the other hand being slaughtered by a blood thirsty egomaniac with a rifle is no worse a fate than dying the natural death many animals experience. On the other hand I'm fine with trophy hunters going extinct and themselves meeting unnatural deaths.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  10. #45
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    Default Re: A victory for big game animals

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Come now. You can do it for $100 a day, or even less. For $1000 a day you get top luxury.
    You do not know what you are talking about again. My wife is a director of sales that specializes and sells Africa's top luxury travel (5 and 6 star hotels and safaris) for the number one luxury tour operator in the world.
    Some of our rooms we stayed at go for 10,000 a night and are booked a year or more in advance. Most 3/4 star operators won't take a guest for less than 10,000 per person booking for 2 weeks with shared room.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 07-04-2022 at 10:58 AM.
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  11. #46
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    Default Re: A victory for big game animals

    From what I have read, an elephant's life span is limited by its teeth. When its molars wear out, it can no longer eat enough to survive and it starves to death, or until it is weak enough for predators to eat it. If ethical hunters confine themselves to mature and consequently, large, trophy quality, animals their harvesting is perhaps a more merciful end. YMMV.

  12. #47
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    Default Re: A victory for big game animals

    ^ old elephants are so special. They are so remarkable and remember nearly everything and almost everybody. They are watchful and gentle teachers to each other, passing on lessons to younger ones on relationships, survival and trust. Being in the presents of one in the wild is personally awing and life changing. I can not imagine anyone shooting one of these large gift of nature grazing. This one is about 50 years old. It is careful while it eating shaking off the dirt and dust of the vegetation it is consuming as it knows its teeth are limited.

    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 07-04-2022 at 11:19 AM.
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  13. #48
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    Default Re: A victory for big game animals

    My neighbor is from South Africa. He's told me that in the managed preserves where they allow hunting the camera-toting eco-tourist is always a happy source of income. However, when they have an old bull elephant or lion that's causing problems and will die soon regardless, they're more than happy to sell that $7K license to cull the herd/pride. On the other hand, his sister is a game warden in a National Park and has spent weeks at a time camped on top of a boma waiting to catch poachers who are killing animals for hides/feet/horns that they then sell for a pittance. I'll support the managed hunting over the poaching any day.

  14. #49
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    Default Re: A victory for big game animals

    So, who shot the guy? And why?

  15. #50
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    Default Re: A victory for big game animals

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    Are we the ones to tell those local economies what they should and should not do? That attitude seems common here. I would suggest you do a little reading on how African hunts are administered. It’s not a free for all.
    We don’t know,at this point, why he was killed—crime, poachers, who knows. I simple fact that he was murdered suggests to me that it could have been some members of the local population that don’t appreciate big game hunters as much as they should as told to them by “us”.
    Last edited by CK 17; 07-04-2022 at 11:40 AM.
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  16. #51
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    Default Re: A victory for big game animals

    I've hunted with fire arms various birds, squirrels, rabbits, and deer. More to the pointless (from so many), I come from a family of unapologetic fox hunters. As Oscar Wilde put it, “The unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable.”

    There are both ecological and economic points in favor of fox hunting, now illegal, in Britain. The nature of US agricultural and ecological systems means that there is no real point to fox hunting here except the ceremony and excitement and risk. Mom was a pioneer in no-kill fox hunting.

    The great things about fox hunting as it is now are:

    Hounds and foxes have a safe romp;

    Horses are rarely hurt; and

    Riders get injured and killed.

    I'm not against managed big game hunting in an ecological setting, but I don't approve of cosseted sports whose safety is ensured by a pro with heavy artillery.

  17. #52
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    Default Re: A victory for big game animals

    Quote Originally Posted by Decourcy View Post
    Lots of waterfowl photographers in North America (I see them every day in season), but itís the hunters that preserved them, and continue to do so.
    Technically it is the legislature that preserves them (The ducks)

    I'm left wondering how much those guys in the white truck paid for their "hunt".
    Not many people are going to miss that fat white guy.

  18. #53
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    Default Re: A victory for big game animals

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Hadfield View Post
    So, who shot the guy? And why?
    It is South Africa. If your car breaks down next to the road, there is a good chance that you will be killed for the niknaks you may or may not have. A cellphone or a spare tyre will do.

    This one you may find particularly close to home.

    https://www.news24.com/news24/SouthA...udent-20220628

  19. #54
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    Default Re: A victory for big game animals

    Quote Originally Posted by devout View Post
    It is South Africa. If your car breaks down next to the road, there is a good chance that you will be killed for the niknaks you may or may not have. A cellphone or a spare tyre will do.

    This one you may find particularly close to home.

    https://www.news24.com/news24/SouthA...udent-20220628
    That is ugly indeed.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: A victory for big game animals

    I used to bow hunt with a feller who could afford to go overseas chasing trophies. The agent who arranged his Africa hunt told him that he would be picked up at the airport by a member of the team and a body guard and flown by private plane directly to the hunting lodge, pretty much eliminating the risk of being murdered before he got to his destination. The day before his hunt he was driven around and various species were pointed out and he was told the trophy fee for each, and the fine for shooting anything on the prohibited list. He was told he was allowed to shoot every baboon he saw for free. The baboons were targeting young farm animals, killing them and ripping them open to get the milk out of their stomachs. Hated by everybody.
    As for hunting foxes, winter fox pelts used to make up a sizeable chunk of my income every winter. The worldwide movement against wearing animal furs almost completely destroyed the industry. Foxes cost the farming industry in Australia about 225 million per annum and control has been left to the land owners. So fox numbers build way up and then a major outbreak of sarcoptic mange will wipe out a big percentage of them. Unfortunately the mange also kills most of the wombats in the area as well, and their numbers take much longer to recover. I still like shooting foxes but don't get much opportunity these days. Calling in a big old dog fox on a frosty winters morning and watching it race towards you from several hundred yards out and sometimes coming right to your feet gets the adrenalin going. My Dad and I shot over 130 in two months one winter. Dad used his share of the money to buy a colour TV and a Winchester lever action in .22 mag. He carried that gun over his arm for a lot of years- it's one of my prized possessions. I think I spent my share on parts for the Harley I was building at the time JayInOz

  21. #56
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    Default Re: A victory for big game animals

    Foxes, rabbits, cats, deer, Vermin in Aus.

    All introduced by humans…………………….

  22. #57
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    Default Re: A victory for big game animals

    As the species responsible for much of the environmental imbalance on the planet I feel it's incumbent on us to do what we can to manage the remaining habitats. As it's unlikely that our species will voluntarily step off the planet to allow balance to restore itself we're stuck doing it "manually". Archaeological evidence shows that even if mankind were not messing things up there would be breakout population booms among rapid reproducing species leading to decades long alterations in local habitats. We're just one more bad influence until we learn to educate our masses and get them to work together...like that's ​gonna happen.

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