A victory for big game animals

[CK 17]

It seems like a legitimate article. Anyway, thoughts and prayers. I hope he had a moment to understand he was dying.
“A TROPHY hunter has been found shot dead in his truck in a 'cold blood' execution-style murder.Riaan Naude, 55, who ran the company Pro Hunt Africa regularly shared snaps of himself posing next to lions, elephants and other animals he had killed.”

https://www.the-sun.com/news/5693508/trophy-hunter-killed-lions-elephants-shot-dead-cold-blood/

[Decourcy]

I wonder whether you understand how much guided trophy hunts give to local communities, fund wildlife programs, or preserve wild lands. No. No, it would seem not. Just another sick bastard happy to see a person die.

[CK 17]

There’s a long lost fourmite that used to try and make that argument. It was ridiculous then too. Anything to justify killing an elephant.

maybe now some baby game animal can enjoy a parent for a few more days.

[JayInOz]

In many countries- particularly Africa and America- an enormous amount of money paid by trophy hunters goes towards animal conservation. There are also all the businesses on the periphery that benefit from it. In America an additional four hundred million per annum is paid in fees and donations. Murdering a bloke in his truck will do nothing other than leave a family short of a husband and father, but it'll make anti hunters feel good. JayInOz

[CK 17]

I remain unconvinced.

[Decourcy]

I remain unconvinced.

Because you are willfully blinded by your prejudice

[CK 17]

Because you are willfully blinded by your prejudice

I can’t argue with that. There are better ways to finically support communities than killing their residents that were probably there way before humans.

[Decourcy]

I can’t argue with that. There are better ways to finically support communities than killing their residents that were probably there way before humans.

You, a white man in a wealthy western nation get to choose for the locals do you? How arrogant.

[CK 17]

You, a white man in a wealthy western nation get to choose for the locals do you? How arrogant.

To be honest, I’m really just thinking about the elephants and lions. Go ahead, keep Rationalizing the killing until they’re all gone.

[Decourcy]

To be honest, I’m really just thinking about the elephants and lions. Go ahead, keep Rationalizing the killing until they’re all gone.

What you have done is your best to rationalize the killing of a human.

[CK 17]

If your point is I don’t seem very sympathetic, I don’t disagree.

[Decourcy]

As I said. Sick bastard.

[lupussonic]

Cameras are available, why not shoot them with those?

[JayInOz]

There are some practices passed off as big game hunting that I find totally disgusting, like shooting an old lion that's spent its entire life in an enclosure and is then sat out in the middle of a paddock looking bewildered before being shot by a "hunter". A couple of years ago I watched a documentary about efforts in Africa to save a large group of wandering elephants which were believed to be in serious danger. Poaching was halted, seasons were good for several years and the number of elephants increased substantially. Then a drought hit. The elephants had a smaller area to roam than in the past and were repeatedly hitting the same locations in their search for food before those areas could recover from previous visits. The elephants were pushing over and destroying entire stands of trees. So- what to do. A small number could be captured and relocated but a number would have to be shot. Local Parks rangers could do it. Or American trophy hunters could do it and pay thirty to thirty five thousand dollars for each mature elephant shot- all of which goes back into conservation in the park, plus paying air fares and accommodation etc., etc. I've taken my share of trophy herbivores but I ate the carcasses. You can't eat antlers but you can use them for lots of other things. For the last thirty years I've only killed critters for food unless they were pests and or a danger to my animals. I've had a pair of mature foxes killing lambs and poultry here for more than a year. They wouldn't look at a light and wouldn't trap. Friday I spotted the vixen hunting near my goose pen and finally managed to smack her between the eyes at about twenty yards. Yesterday lunchtime her mate was running circles trying to find her. He stopped just long enough for me to drop him as well. I don't feel the tiniest bit guilty for killing those two. JayInOz

[George.]

In many countries- particularly Africa and America- an enormous amount of money paid by trophy hunters goes towards animal conservation. There are also all the businesses on the periphery that benefit from it.

This is correct. South Africa in particular benefits a lot from hunting. The hunting ranches preserve habitat where all the non-target species can live.

That said, sexual tourism also generates a lot of money. In many places it involves exploitation and underage people.

[WI-Tom]

Cameras are available, why not shoot them with those?

I wonder: If you rigged up a high-quality camera to look like a fancy hunting rifle, and linked the trigger to the shutter instead of to a bullet...

Would photo "hunts" become more popular? I bet they would.

Tom

[Jim Mahan]

And then when the guy's done with the rifle camera, have him donate a pint of blood and feed him an I-can't-believe-it's-a-steak, with a bottle of some 'fine' whisky sitting across from a guy who speaks in short pithy descriptive sentences next to a portrait of Hemingway. "It was good, The sun was hot. Your arm was steady, and it was good. You gonna eat all that?" Kind of an immersion experience.

[skuthorp]

What you have done is your best to rationalize the killing of a human.

Humans are not an endangered species, and anyway tens of thousands of humans are shot every year in the US for 'cultural reasons'. The argument has no standing, the 'hunter' died by his own choice of weapon for the slaughter of other species.

[George.]

Anyway, isn't it supposed to be the "brave hunter"? Where is the bravery if one of them doesn't get trampled by a buffalo once in a while?

[Decourcy]

Humans are not an endangered species, and anyway tens of thousands of humans are shot every year in the US for 'cultural reasons'. The argument has no standing, the 'hunter' died by his own choice of weapon for the slaughter of other species.

Like the wetlands and the waterfowl in North America preserved by “ducks unlimited” and other orgs, without African hunting and the preservations driven by the interest and the money, there would be little if any of the big animals left in Africa. As hard as it is to wrap your head around that seeming paradox, it is the truth.


The average North American only cares about African endangered species when it makes the news, like in the OP. The rest of the time it doesn’t register, and they certainly don’t donate a penny towards keeping any of them alive. The professional hunting groups have built their lives (often for generations) around keeping those species around and healthy.

So, no. You and the OP are judging the death of a man based on your own uninformed notions of morality. You and the OP both dislike what he does, so seem fine with his murder. That is sick.

[Decourcy]

Anyway, isn't it supposed to be the "brave hunter"? Where is the bravery if one of them doesn't get trampled by a buffalo once in a while?

Oh, I agree with this. There is danger there. But murdered on the side of the road by thieves hardly fits.

[bluedog225]

Real sport and the animal would be able to kill you as well. Start with a spear and a white tail deer. Work you way up to hogs. Fat men, big trucks, and high powered hunting rifles are not sport.

[Decourcy]

Real sport and the animal would be able to kill you as well. Start with a spear and a white tail deer. Work you way up to hogs. Fat men, big trucks, and high powered hunting rifles are not sport.

If, by condemning the “sport” to extinction you also condemn the animals to extinction do you feel morally justified? If, by accepting that some activities unattractive to yourself are, with the way the world is, required for the preservation of those animals, do you feel morally broken?

[CWSmith]

Camera-carrying ecotourists will produce a lot more income for the community, especially since they can "shoot" the same animal again and again.

[Decourcy]

Camera-carrying ecotourists will produce a lot more income for the community, especially since they can "shoot" the same animal again and again.

They will not and do not.

No-one will pay $70000 to take a photo

[CWSmith]

They will not and do not.

No-one will pay $70000 to take a photo

Do the math. One hunter shoots one animal for $70k. Ten photographers shoot one animal for $7k each. It's the same.

[Decourcy]

Do the math. One hunter shoots one animal for $70k. Ten photographers shoot one animal for $7k each. It's the same.

Your math skills suck. The photographers will go anyways (until the poachers kill all the remaining animals) so it’s $70000. Or it’s $70000 plus $70000 with the benefits of groups highly invested in preservation.

[Ted Hoppe]

I have less moral authority to judge this guy but I don't like him shooting animals, I have a huge tri-tip, hamburgers, chicken and hot dogs to grill for the 4th for my family. I am sure there will be photos of me grilling the meat.

[bluedog225]

6689144[/URL]]If, by condemning the “sport” to extinction you also condemn the animals to extinction do you feel morally justified? If, by accepting that some activities unattractive to yourself are, with the way the world is, required for the preservation of those animals, do you feel morally broken?

I think you misunderstand. I am condemning the “sportsmen” as posers. Literally and figuratively.

[Decourcy]

Lots of waterfowl photographers in North America (I see them every day in season), but it’s the hunters that preserved them, and continue to do so.

[Decourcy]

I think you misunderstand. I am condemning the “sportsmen” as posers. Literally and figuratively.

Oh, they often are. But as long as the countries that need the money to preserve can wrangle large sums of money for that preservation from them, who cares.

[Reynard38]

As much as I like to shoot I just don’t understand the desire to trophy hunt. Having to cull a heard, putting down a dangerous animal or exterminating a invasive non native species I get, but somebody shooting say a giraffe for the “thrill” of it is just some seriously messed up thinking. And trying to justify it with $$ is just a messed up.

[George.]

If, by condemning the “sport” to extinction you also condemn the animals to extinction

Let's not exxagerate the contribution of hunting. Species are protected from extinction in national parks and other protected areas. Game ranches help to some extent - some more than others. They don't care about natural ecosystems and the full range of species. They manage to have the most of the prize game species, at whatever cost to everything else. Some of them are little more than rows of large pens where lions are kept waiting to be shot.

[bluedog225]

About as sporting as putting a bolt through a cows brain. Glorifying it seems wrong. As does shooting living things for fun or because it’s “manly.” Maybe time to move away from this mindset?

[Decourcy]

Let's not exxagerate the contribution of hunting. Species are protected from extinction in national parks and other protected areas. Game ranches help to some extent - some more than others. They don't care about natural ecosystems and the full range of species. They manage to have the most of the prize game species, at whatever cost to everything else. Some of them are little more than rows of large pens where lions are kept waiting to be shot.

Protected areas developed and descended from the idea of hunting reserves for the wealthy. Eventually that changed to access for the masses. As I said before, vast swaths of wetlands In North America were purchased and preserved not as parks but as a means of keeping waterfowl abundant for hunting. Those often then became parks.
Africa is different, but not greatly so.

The lions in a pen thing is not what the man in the OP did. I suspect he would be as disgusted as you are by that.