$47,000

[Beowolf]

That’s the average price of a new car.

NPR: Average Monthly Payment for New Cars Reaches $700

On a related note, here’s a build for, what I see as, the most common vehicle on the road in it’s likely most basic form.

4B6049EC-8261-4204-AE20-6B6D99CCA29E.jpg

4x4, Extended Cab, XLT Trim, mid-level engine, mid-level option package. Nothing else.

You’ll likely get somewhere around 17-18 mpg in real world driving.

[Too Little Time]

$47K is too much for me.

[David G]

We've keeping an eye out for a replacement for my sweetie's Honda Fit. No big hurry, we just know it's coming. Gonna try to keep it in the $30-35k range. At this point the leaders are hybrids: Honda CRV; Hyundai Tucson. I like the Toyota RAV4 also, but the seats are not comfortable for my favorite wife's tuchis.

[Kevin T]

We've keeping an eye out for a replacement for my sweetie's Honda Fit. No big hurry, we just know it's coming. Gonna try to keep it in the $30-35k range. At this point the leaders are hybrids: Honda CRV; Hyundai Tucson. I like the Toyota RAV4 also, but the seats are not comfortable for my favorite wife's tuchis.

I had no idea you were a polygamist. What do your less favored wives rest their tushies upon?

[Beowolf]

$47K is too much for me.

That’s true for most of us.

The article does a pretty good job of explaining how we got there in the most recent years.

[Canoeyawl]

I have had the same work truck for 40 years now... 3rd engine, second clutch, new seats once, the third set of tires and third paint job...

We get my wife a newer car every 10 years, but not a "new" one.
Lease buy-backs are a pretty good way to go, about 5 years old with low mileage, in white, I look for 30k miles or less, and run them for another 100k.

What other investment can you make that will lose 30% of it's value in the first week you own it?

[David G]

I had no idea you were a polygamist. What do your less favored wives rest their tushies upon?

The 'less favored wives' are (at least officially) theoretical at this point.

But I figger that referring to her thusly when I speak to her will help keep her on her toes. Plus, it's ongoing practice for my reflexes!! <G>

[LeeG]

I’m ok with that. Let someone else buy the new car smell. New vehicles are incredibly clean, efficient, reliable, strong and safe compared to 50 yrs ago. But no way around it, the environmental consequences of billions of cars are catching up and they should cost more. Especially if you realllly need 300hp. Hell a 1.5 liter Honda Fit engine has the same hp as a straight six or V8 from the 60’s.

[Too Little Time]

The article does a pretty good job of explaining how we got there in the most recent years.

Yes, it does. I expect some people will change their behavior

[Nicholas Scheuer]

My current drivers, a Kia Soul and a Dodge Diesel, cost me $3,500 and $7,000, respectively. Folks who pay $50,000 and more for a vehicle shouldn't complain about fuel costs, especially when waste vegetable for my truck is free.

[JimD]

We've keeping an eye out for a replacement for my sweetie's Honda Fit. No big hurry, we just know it's coming. Gonna try to keep it in the $30-35k range. At this point the leaders are hybrids: Honda CRV; Hyundai Tucson. I like the Toyota RAV4 also, but the seats are not comfortable for my favorite wife's tuchis.

I drive an older CRV. The seats are perfect for me. The seats in Her Toyota Prius are awful for me, although She likes them.

[LeeG]

Yes, it does. I expect some people will change their behavior

when they have no other choice

[Too Little Time]

when they have no other choice

The FED has a chart of historical prices, https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUUR0000SETA01

It seems something changed in '75. And then again in '96. Few noticed.

[JayInOz]

The first three bedroom house I bought was $12,500.

[bamamick]

Which is why financing it for ten years isn’t out of the question these days.

Mickey Lake

[Beowolf]

Yes, it does. I expect some people will change their behavior

But do those people include automakers? What the article describes looks an awful lot like trickle-down economics with cars.

Build cars for those at the top of the food chain. Eventually they’ll make their way to the masses through the used car market. Choices along this ideology put us in this situation where even the used market has become unobtainable.

We were looking forward to the lease on our current VW reaching its end. SUVs just don’t do it for us anymore. But the lease-end purchase price is nearly $10k less than the current trade in value. Can’t really walk away from that.

[Breakaway]

I never buy new.


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[George.]

$ 47K is cheap. It is only this cheap because externalities go unpaid.

[LeeG]

$ 47K is cheap. It is only this cheap because externalities go unpaid.

bingo

[The Q]

My Landrover is 39years old, parts are easy to get it will out last me.
Our Kia is 14years old we've had from new, and has 135,000 miles on it. Some parts are getting hard to get, next year we are inheriting a similar aged Citroen, but it's only done 35,000 miles a similar model is still in production so hopefully parts will me less of problem.
That car will probably be a bridge to being forced to buy electric.

[George.]

To the environmental costs of building a 2 ton hunk of metal and plastic, running it on fossil fuels for a few years, and then throwing it away and buying a new one.

If a refrigerator lasts 20 years, and a commercial jetliner 30, why do so many people have to get new cars every three or four?

[LeeG]

Cheap compared to what?

compared to habitat loss, global warming and the inevitable struggle when oil production no longer keeps up with demand and billions of lives enabled with oil derived power have no replacement.

Or cheap compared to a comparable EV truck.

That dumbass GWOT is a kind of externality brought by oil politics.

[Gerarddm]

A) Too much for my wallet.

B) My usual practice is to buy a car only when it it three yers old to wring most of the depreciation out. Three year old cars are generally coming off a lease arrrangement too.

C) I usually run my cars into the ground ( 250K-300K miles ) before buying a replacement anyway.

[LeeG]

To the environmental costs of building a 2 ton hunk of metal and plastic, running it on fossil fuels for a few years, and then throwing it away and buying a new one.

If a refrigerator lasts 20 years, and a commercial jetliner 30, why do so many people have to get new cars every three or four?

Because personal auto transportation became a consumer item reflecting consumer desires. I doubt many people turn over their personal vehicles that often these days but I could be wrong, again.

[George.]

So how long are they used on average in rich countries?

I don't see too many cars more than 10 years old on US roads when I visit. Most look less than 5 years old.

[LeeG]

Cheap in relationship to itself over the years.

While your other points are valid, I'll give you my story on the matter. I just recently purchased a Toyota Tacoma. I really looked at a Model Y and a EV6, as both had the towing capacity I needed to haul materials locally. Those each cost $20,000 more and would have brought my payment up to $600/month, not reasonable. Because of some luck, I've spent a total of $5000 to drive over the past 5 years. I sold my jeep at a $2000 loss and my 4runnser at a $1000 loss, another $2000 was for the dealer fees and what not. That's not bad for the privilege of driving a new car for 5 years but that's unusual. My payments are $260/month as I was able to sink equity in the previous two vehicles, due to super low interest rates, choosing vehicles that retained their value, and the strange supply chain issues we have today.

Anyway, EVs are out of my reach for the time being. Well, not out of my reach but not really all that wise a choice, especially considering that I drive about 50 miles back and forth to work per week and really don't go anywhere far on the weekend. A tank of gas usually lasts me a month.

Touching upon the environmental question you raised. I didn't bring children into the world, that means I get to drive a pana-max tanker and still won't come anywhere near the environmental impact of having even one child. I'm an environmental god, beyond reproach. So, you can leave me out of your disdain and save it for the breeders.

Disdain? Ha, I say. Leave your tender sensitivities on the shelf I was speaking of externalities not McMikes delicate self regatd. Modern homo saps ability to control and express the power of two hundred horses was something only royalty and warlords could manage 500 yrs ago. Now we have 100’s of millions of people expressing that power everyday dumping the effluent into the atmosphere in seconds what took millions of years to sequester.
What we’re talking about isn’t McMike’s status on the holier than though ladder.

Btw, “cheap in relationship to itself” doesn’t make sense.

[LeeG]

So how long are they used on average in rich countries?

I don't see too many cars more than 10 years old on US roads when I visit. Most look less than 5 years old.

Where I live it looks like the average vehicle is ten yrs old so maybe those vehicles come out here to retire and die.

Now that I think about it maybe 25% of the vehicles at Walmart are 20 yrs old.

[Too Little Time]

So how long are they used on average in rich countries?

I don't see too many cars more than 10 years old on US roads when I visit. Most look less than 5 years old.

The average age is 12.2 years.

[Breakaway]

So how long are they used on average in rich countries?

I don't see too many cars more than 10 years old on US roads when I visit. Most look less than 5 years old.

Look closer next time you visit, George.

Average age of vehicle in US is 12 years.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-ave...rs-11653303602

That is 20 percent older than the average vehicle age in Brazil, which is 10 years.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ge-age-brazil/

Kevin




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[George.]

Average age...

What's the mean age?

[LeeG]

“cheap in relationship to itself”, meaning in relationship to the same model historically. And yes, I get to talk about chit in relationship to myself.

. . . and, I find it hilarious that you, of all people, are calling me holier-than-thou. Take it easy, you might hurt yourself with all the hilarity.

And “that same model” in 1970 is not the same vehicle 50 yrs later. Talk chit all you want but your chit isn’t the topic.

[Breakaway]

Here ya go!

40 pages of math, tables, data and analysis related to the age and use of passenger vehicles and light trucks in the US.

Enjoy!

https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api...ication/809952

Kevin


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[sonofswen]

"Anyway, EVs are out of my reach for the time being."

Maybe the one you might want, but thisNew 2022 Chevrolet Bolt EUV LT...$28,19028,190
and the new ones have batteries that do not start fires..at least according to GMC

• 
  
  
  Black Interior
• 
  
  Electric Engine
• 
  
  Single-Speed Transmission
• 
  
  2 wheel drive - front
• 
  
  247 Mile Range

[LeeG]

that’s kind of you Kevin.

[David G]

Which is why financing it for ten years isn’t out of the question these days.

Mickey Lake

Well, partly because you can figure a vehicle is gonna last that long.