Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 42

Thread: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    43,280

    Default Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Trump's court nominees would not have been confirmed.

    Voting rights laws protecting votes would have passed.

    Abortion would still be covered by Roe.

    EPA would have ability to do its work

    Imagine.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    11,745

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Had Democratic candidates shown some action rather than just a little empathy for the poor and minorities, they might have been elected. And you would have what you want.

    You keep telling us what you want. What do the poor and minorities want that you are willing to give them? Nothing?
    Life is complex.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Flint Springs, Tennessee
    Posts
    904

    Default

    Imagine if Napoleon had had a B52.

    Ken


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    40,829

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    Had Democratic candidates shown some action rather than just a little empathy for the poor and minorities, they might have been elected. And you would have what you want.

    You keep telling us what you want. What do the poor and minorities want that you are willing to give them? Nothing?
    Imagine if there was no Electoral College - No Republican would have won in over 30 years. Every democrat wins the popular vote by millions. That means Al Gore would won, Hillary would have won, Garland would be SCJ and the entire SC would look remarkably different. Row V Wade would be enshrined as a federal legislation, Real common sense gun legislation, Universal Healthcare for all, free college, and paid for by just taking 2% of the MIC.


    Ahhh
    Imagine there's no heaven
    It's easy if you try
    No hell below us
    Above us, only sky

    Imagine all the people
    Livin' for today
    Ah

    Imagine there's no countries
    It isn't hard to do
    Nothing to kill or die for
    And no religion, too

    Imagine all the people
    Livin' life in peace
    You

    You may say I'm a dreamer
    But I'm not the only one
    I hope someday you'll join us
    And the world will be as one
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Tacoma, WA
    Posts
    20,393

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Add to Joe’s list, no Iraq invasion and occupation.
    ITS CHAOS, BE KIND

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    40,829

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    Imagine I was superman . . . stupid.
    Limits on IMAGINATION ???
    Hmmmmm Ok you do you I'll do me, my imagination has no limits
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    34,599

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Classic story of locking the barn after the horse is stolen, It's the American way.
    All the handwringing in the world is not going to reverse that decision
    It will take organization and cooperation over a generation (or more likely two generations) so 50 years...
    In the meantime it is just whinging which is not becoming

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    43,280

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    Had Democratic candidates shown some action rather than just a little empathy for the poor and minorities, they might have been elected. And you would have what you want.

    You keep telling us what you want. What do the poor and minorities want that you are willing to give them? Nothing?
    48 out of 50 democratic senators voted for progress. NO GOP senators did.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    11,745

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    Imagine if there was no Electoral College - No Republican would have won in over 30 years. Every democrat wins the popular vote by millions. That means Al Gore would won, Hillary would have won, Garland would be SCJ and the entire SC would look remarkably different. Row V Wade would be enshrined as a federal legislation, Real common sense gun legislation, Universal Healthcare for all, free college, and paid for by just taking 2% of the MIC.
    (In 88 Bush had a majority. In 04 Bush had a majority. Prior to that a minority of popular votes was sufficient in a number of elections.)

    There is a poorly worded interstate compact that would have elected the president by popular vote. As I recall had all the Democratic controlled states adopted it, we would have had more Democratic presidents. But the compact was poorly worded and some Democratic states did not want it.

    You listed what you want. Perhaps you could list what the poor want and you are willing to give them
    Life is complex.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    11,745

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    48 out of 50 democratic senators voted for progress. NO GOP senators did.
    Progress for who? I asked what you are willing to give to the poor and minorities that they want.
    Life is complex.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    43,280

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    Classic story of locking the barn after the horse is stolen, It's the American way.
    All the handwringing in the world is not going to reverse that decision
    It will take organization and cooperation over a generation (or more likely two generations) so 50 years...
    In the meantime it is just whinging which is not becoming
    Yes, and no. It's to show that voting matters. It matters for voters to KNOW one party is better for them than the other party is.

    It's also important for people to realize, which many appear not to, that the president can only sign into law bills that have passed both chambers of congress.

    It's also a fact that the narrow margin in the senate has seriously changed the course of our history for the worse.

    This court would not be in place if dems won senate seats in just two or three more states.

    Is there not something wrong when the candidate with less votes wins the election?

    Is there any way to reverse the current direction we're headed in other than electing more democrats?
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    43,280

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Quote Originally Posted by McMike View Post
    I 100% agree.
    There are more horses still to be stolen. Locking the door might save them.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    34,599

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    There are more horses still to be stolen. Locking the door might save them.
    Good luck with that...

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    N. Fal on Cape Cod
    Posts
    18,152

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    C'mon guys. This is a stupid exercise.

    Get working on how to straighten out the mess.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
    And other things, too.
    http://www.landsedgephoto.com

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    N. Fal on Cape Cod
    Posts
    18,152

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    If you want the EPA to be able to do its work print up fliers of Manchin's boat in the Potomac and distribute them to every household in West Virgina.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
    And other things, too.
    http://www.landsedgephoto.com

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    N. Fal on Cape Cod
    Posts
    18,152

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    It's time for the governors of NY, CT, MA, VT, NH and ME to start drawing up a plan for separating from the rest of the states and forming a nation.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
    And other things, too.
    http://www.landsedgephoto.com

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    34,599

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    C'mon guys. This is a stupid exercise.

    Get working on how to straighten out the mess.
    10 pages of whinging

    It is going to require a nose to the grindstone approach
    Much like the RW has done, use "religion" as incitement, then start your own schools and train up lawyers to infiltrate government as the lower level judges until those can be appointed to the federal bench. About 50 years...

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    40,829

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    (In 88 Bush had a majority. In 04 Bush had a majority. Prior to that a minority of popular votes was sufficient in a number of elections.)

    There is a poorly worded interstate compact that would have elected the president by popular vote. As I recall had all the Democratic controlled states adopted it, we would have had more Democratic presidents. But the compact was poorly worded and some Democratic states did not want it.

    You listed what you want. Perhaps you could list what the poor want and you are willing to give them
    I actually voted for H W Bush.
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Duncan, Vancouver Island
    Posts
    29,189

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Imagination is strange. Often we imagine things that are so absurd they are impossible, even in theory. And then we believe them and accept them as fundamental truths. This doesn't help the cause of rational voting practices.
    Last edited by JimD; 07-03-2022 at 01:26 PM.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    n.c. tn
    Posts
    9,927

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Imagine if Dems actually did things to help the working class & poor.

    Imagine RBG immediately announcing her retirement when Obama won.

    Imagine Dems finding their backbone and actually doing something.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    N. Fal on Cape Cod
    Posts
    18,152

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Durnik View Post
    Imagine if Dems actually did things to help the working class & poor.

    Imagine RBG immediately announcing her retirement when Obama won.

    Imagine Dems finding their backbone and actually doing something.
    Manchin. Sinema.
    A society predicated on the assumption that everyone in it should want to get rich is not well situated to become either ethical or imaginative.

    Photographer of sailing and sailboats
    And other things, too.
    http://www.landsedgephoto.com

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    West Sacramento, CA
    Posts
    9,981

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Who have legitimate D voting records. Right up until it’s critical, and they vote R, as if they were lockstepping with the rest of the Rs. Tell me they’re not in the bag for those votes.
    Speak softly and carry a mouthful of marbles.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Duncan, Vancouver Island
    Posts
    29,189

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    Manchin. Sinema.
    Imagine if all Dems behaved like Dems.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    70,275

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Good luck……….

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    43,280

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Durnik View Post
    Imagine if Dems actually did things to help the working class & poor.

    Imagine RBG immediately announcing her retirement when Obama won.

    Imagine Dems finding their backbone and actually doing something.
    What, exactly, can they do without 50 reliable senators?
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    11,745

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    What, exactly, can they do without 50 reliable senators?
    You fail to realize that the Democrats have had control of several state/local governments from time to time and have not shown much intent to address the issues Durnik or I have listed. I think state/local governance would be be useful indicators of national intent.

    But again you ignore the question. What are you willing to do for the poor and minorities that they want?
    Life is complex.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA USA
    Posts
    16,195

    Default

    Fixed it for ya.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    What, exactly, can they do without [s]50[/s] 61 reliable senators?
    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    n.c. tn
    Posts
    9,927

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Originally Posted by Durnik

    Imagine if Dems actually did things to help the working class & poor.
    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    Manchin. Sinema.
    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    What, exactly, can they do without 50 reliable senators?
    for the last 30 years, eh?

    eta:

    And before Manchin/Sinema, the excuse was Leiberman.. always an excuse.
    And let's not forget Pelosi said "we don't back challengers to incumbents".. and then backed a conservative challenger to a progressive incumbent.
    And calling Biden, Schumer, or Pelosi 'liberals' makes the word 'liberal' meaningless.
    Hell, Calling Sotomayor and Ginsberg liberals is/was insane. Feminist? Yes. But Corporate supporters all the way.

    So, what have the Dems done to get the vote of working class/poor?

    Nada.
    Last edited by Durnik; 07-03-2022 at 10:03 PM.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Seattle, WA USA
    Posts
    16,195

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    You would not enjoy Nietzsche, sir. He is fundamentally unsound. P.G. Wodehouse (Carry On, Jeeves)

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    43,280

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    You fail to realize that the Democrats have had control of several state/local governments from time to time and have not shown much intent to address the issues Durnik or I have listed. I think state/local governance would be be useful indicators of national intent.

    But again you ignore the question. What are you willing to do for the poor and minorities that they want?
    My state seems to do fairly well with dems in charge. Hard to speak for others.

    My point regards the federal government. Am I wrong to think that had Trump not gotten his three justices, Roe would not have been overturned, the EPA would not have been injured, etc.

    Democrats, at the federal level, tend to pass stuff that helps the people. GOP passes stuff that helps the super rich and/or is based on their religious beliefs.

    I don't believe I've seen all dems as saints, but today's republicans are the devil.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    43,280

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicholas Carey View Post
    Fixed it for ya.
    That's true for most things, but I do believe a reliable majority would carve out the filibuster for some of the stuff that's needed. 61 would be great. then they would have control, and the party could be held accountable for failing.

    I've posted often, without, far as I can recall, any comment that I believe legislation should require a simple majority, but putting a judge on any bench should require something more.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    43,280

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Durnik View Post
    for the last 30 years, eh?

    eta:

    And before Manchin/Sinema, the excuse was Leiberman.. always an excuse.
    And let's not forget Pelosi said "we don't back challengers to incumbents".. and then backed a conservative challenger to a progressive incumbent.
    And calling Biden, Schumer, or Pelosi 'liberals' makes the word 'liberal' meaningless.
    Hell, Calling Sotomayor and Ginsberg liberals is/was insane. Feminist? Yes. But Corporate supporters all the way.

    So, what have the Dems done to get the vote of working class/poor?

    Nada.
    Unemployment insurance? Social Security? Medicare? And the GOP? What happened to the 2019 middle class tax cut Trump was promising just before the 2018 election?

    Neither party is perfect, but the GOP is the greater of two evils.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Posts
    4,856

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Too Little Time View Post
    Had Democratic candidates shown some action rather than just a little empathy for the poor and minorities, they might have been elected. And you would have what you want.

    You keep telling us what you want. What do the poor and minorities want that you are willing to give them? Nothing?
    The poor are not a homogenous group. All the more true of the “poor and minorities.” Here, the rural poor often fly the confederate flag over their trailer-homes. Our present, gerrymandered, state government works hard to be sure that they get what they want.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    11,745

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    My state seems to do fairly well with dems in charge. Hard to speak for others.

    My point regards the federal government.

    Democrats, at the federal level, tend to pass stuff that helps the people. GOP passes stuff that helps the super rich and/or is based on their religious beliefs.

    I don't believe I've seen all dems as saints, but today's republicans are the devil.
    I went to the New Jersey web site to see how much assistance the poor would receive. Filled out the questioner and found out the mythical poor family did not qualify for assistance.

    Why would I vote for a Democrat who has shown that at the state level they do not help the poor? (That is the connection to the federal government and your question.)

    The Democrats send me over $50K/year in Social Security and gave me an additional $60K/year in tax breaks. The poor would benefit more from that generosity than the rich. But the Democrats in Congress don't even suggest it. (Social Security benefits are determined by Congress. I expect many Democrats here think they earned the benefits because of how Congress sees fit to allocate them.) I have said in the past that Democrats help the 24% below the 1%. Hardly a needy group.

    If the Democrats want the poor and minorities to vote for them, they need to provide what those groups want.
    Life is complex.

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    11,745

    Default Re: Imagine if there had been three more dems in the senate

    Quote Originally Posted by Beowolf View Post
    The poor are not a homogenous group. All the more true of the “poor and minorities.” Here, the rural poor often fly the confederate flag over their trailer-homes. Our present, gerrymandered, state government works hard to be sure that they get what they want.
    The rich are not a homogenous group. The government has no problem giving them what thy want.

    If the state government does give the poor what they want, I expect the poor reward the government officials with votes.
    Life is complex.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •