A poll by Univ of Chi says 28% think they might have to bear arms against the - -

[Nicholas Scheuer]

- - Government. Appears that our schools have failed to teach anything about the government of the so-called "greatest country on Earth". A more telling poll might ask whether americans would bear arms against insurrectionists, ultra-right-wing militia groups, or homegrown terrorists? Or in other words, serve in resistance groups working with Government Troops, whether thy be National Guard, US Army, or USMC.

[skuthorp]

Are you sure which way the military would go………… or whether they'd split?

[George.]

Are you sure which way the military would go………… or whether they'd split?

Which is all that really matters.

[Reynard38]

Good friend of mine is confident, certain even that Trump will be back in the WH by the midterms. He said he will be reinstalled by a “military adjudication”.
I asked how that differed from a coup. Apparently it’s an adjudication if you agree with it.

Interesting times.

[Reynard38]

Are you sure which way the military would go………… or whether they'd split?

Can’t speak for the enlisted, but the officers I know would mostly side with trump. Now whether or not they’d actually take up arms against US citizens is a question is another matter.
If enough evidence came to light that the last election actually was corrupted and trump did win then yes I think they would.

[Reynard38]

Nice friend

Actually a great friend, but we do not agree on some things and we are both OK with that.

[Kevin T]

Can’t speak for the enlisted, but the officers I know would mostly side with trump. Now whether or not they’d actually take up arms against US citizens is a question is another matter.
If enough evidence came to light that the last election actually was corrupted and trump did win then yes I think they would.

What evidence? The 2020 election has been litigated something like 64 times and each case a loser. Republican Secretary's of States in RED states said there was no fraud. Fraudo Baggin's own AG said there was no fraud. Do you have some secret knowledge or evidence that hasn't been brought to light? Please share.

[C. Ross]

What evidence? The 2020 election has been litigated something like 64 times and each case a loser. Republican Secretary's of States in RED states said there was no fraud. Fraudo Baggin's own AG said there was no fraud. Do you have some secret knowledge or evidence that hasn't been brought to light? Please share.

For some people “Evidence which I agree with, that gets me the outcome I want. Because, antifa and stuff.”

[CWSmith]

I frequently think about secession these days. It almost seems inevitable to me and I wonder what North America would look like after.

The liberal states are more receptive to progress (solar power, clean environment, better schools, social programs, etc.). Liberal states run balanced budgets with less $$ coming from the federal government, so they would remain viable.

Most of the nuclear weapons labs are in the south. Many of the biggest military bases are in the south. Republican states run deficit budgets if it were not for the imbalance of $$$ coming from the federal government.

It paints an ugly picture. We might need to build that wall after all.

[Yeadon]

Good friend of mine is confident, certain even that Trump will be back in the WH by the midterms. He said he will be reinstalled by a “military adjudication”.
I asked how that differed from a coup. Apparently it’s an adjudication if you agree with it.

Interesting times.

“Special Adjudication Operation”

[Nicholas Scheuer]

Bull Dookey! There was no age limit on participation in the French (+ Belgian and Dutch) resistance throughout WW2. When I earned a Ham radio license in the 1980's it was not the possibility of crewing on an ocean-going yacht, nor communication with other folks around the World that inspired me. It was reading about the French resistance short wave radio activities.

This is such a complex and nuanced subject that is so fraught with negative implications, to even discuss on an academic level, that this thread is dead before it got started.

Broadly, I don't think those who claim to want a war of rights . . . again . . . understand the horror of it. And it would be pure horror. I'm glad I'm too old to be forced to participate in any variation of such a thing. I'm glad I don't have children. I'm saddened by the possibility, but it doesn't preoccupy me anymore because there's literally nothing I can do about it.

[George.]

I frequently think about secession these days.

You all are too mixed up. At best you would get a partition, as in of India. That was fun. But more likely, unless you fix your outdated system, you will get something like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis...Roman_Republic

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

[George.]

That's the thing, in order to fix it, you need the will of the elected. The elected likes things just the way they are. And they get to pick who we elect. Fun right?

Yes, that is how it went down in Rome as well.

[stromborg]

Is this the poll from OP?
https://uchicagopolitics.opalstacked...ation-Poll.pdf

Worth taking a look at either way.

My problem with polls in general is that the questions really require an answer in essay format and you rarely get that opportunity. 28% in aggregate might be considering taking up arms but the real question is why? I know if you ask me "Do you think the country is headed in the right direction?" I'd say "no" and that becomes the headline with the blame often being put on Biden but I think the problem is the corrupt GQP and their co-conspirator USSC. Same answer, very different reason and that rarely comes out in the media.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

It's how we're going down like Rome.

Yes. You are.

To compare the state of the USA now with the state of the Roman Republic during the Crisis is not original, the parallel is often drawn and many of us agree with it - without being able to propose a solution.

Old style Marxists used to say that capitalism would collapse under the weight of its internal contradictions - capitalism wasn’t the problem as such, it is the inability of “Anglo-Saxon” constitutional structures to deal with the rabbis rousers that is doing us in.

[bob winter]

I would feel a whole lot happier if the US wasn’t armed to the teeth. If the place does break up who is going to control the nukes?

[WI-Tom]

Old style Marxists used to say that capitalism would collapse under the weight of its internal contradictions - capitalism wasn’t the problem as such, it is the inability of “Anglo-Saxon” constitutional structures to deal with the rabbis rousers that is doing us in.

Capitalism, if not "the" problem (we seem to be multi-tasking problems these days), certainly is a major contributing factor to the kind of disruption you're discussing, ACB.

The inevitable concentration of wealth capitalism creates (unless severely restricted from following its own tendencies), and the resulting lack of justice and opportunity for most people, created the rabble rousers. Trump merely succeeded in enlisting them for his own purposes. He didn't make them.

Tom

[Nicholas Scheuer]

A lot of the assistance for the Resistance came from England in the form of arms and was reciprocated with intelligence. The key for all of that was short wave radio operators who knew how to use it while avoiding detection by the SS. The Westland Lysander aircraft landing at night in French pastures were met by French men and women without regard to age of draft status.

Easy there . . . I'm confused. First, I'm not fighting for either side if it comes to that. Neither power structure is working for my benefit, neither is worth my life. I'm too old to be drafted, for a few years of any conflict anyway, that's what I meant by that. I have no idea what you're talking about with the HAM stuff, although I'd like to get my license at some point.

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Capitalism, if not "the" problem (we seem to be multi-tasking problems these days), certainly is a major contributing factor to the kind of disruption you're discussing, ACB.

The inevitable concentration of wealth capitalism creates (unless severely restricted from following its own tendencies), and the resulting lack of justice and opportunity for most people, created the rabble rousers. Trump merely succeeded in enlisting them for his own purposes. He didn't make them.

Tom

“Up to a point, Lord Copper!”

Capitalism spent a long time not concentrating wealth in the way that we expect, just about everywhere, in the thirty years after 1945. I include the United States in that. Capitalism had been concentrating wealth in the 19th century but there was an effective push back by some interesting people from Teddy Roosevelt to David Lloyd George and indeed Bismarck.

“Money is like muck; no good unless it be spread.”

That is a well known quote from Sir Francis Bacon, writing at the start of the seventeenth century.

The strange thing is that reason slept for the past forty years and we all know what that means. It means Marjorie Taylor Greene, Fox News, Donald Trump, capture of the Supreme Court by the forces of darkness, Boris Johnson, Vladimir Putin, etc…

[bob winter]

You guys are experiencing the same kind of backward thinking among your population. And yes, the nukes are a big problem. And, when the USA no longer has anywhere the same capacity of influence around the world, who will fill the vacuum? When the value of the dollar is cut in half, how will the rest of the world economy react?

There seems to be a lunatic fringe evolving in Canada but I doubt it will ever rival what seems to be going on in the US. I blame most of it on social media.

[L.A Marche]

There is no not taking sides in a civil war, your either for us or against us, you’re desire to watch from the sidelines and watch others fight and die is very naive. It’s this aspect of civil wars that make them so terrible, who do you trust who’s your enemy, those who become refugees can never return home because they didn’t pick a side.

[bob winter]

You mean direct importation from the US? Could be right. There is legislation in the works that may help but there is a lot of opposition to it. It will pass the commons thanks to the NDP Liberal agreement.

[Reynard38]

What evidence? The 2020 election has been litigated something like 64 times and each case a loser. Republican Secretary's of States in RED states said there was no fraud. Fraudo Baggin's own AG said there was no fraud. Do you have some secret knowledge or evidence that hasn't been brought to light? Please share.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/if

[WI-Tom]

There seems to be a lunatic fringe evolving in Canada but I doubt it will ever rival what seems to be going on in the US. I blame most of it on social media.

Athough it's worth thinking about that this song:



was written by a Canadian, about the rise of nea-Nazi white supremacist in Canada, way back in 1981. No one is immune. "It can't happen here" is an invitation for it to happen there.

Tom

[Kevin T]

When ifs and buts become candy and nuts

every day will be Christmas.

[CWSmith]

Deer rifles vs drones, sure! I can see 2nd Amendment types winning that confrontation.

[Nicholas Scheuer]

^^^ Some, maybe; but not every US Army officer considers his or her oath to serve likely to change according to political winds.

[WI-Tom]

Deer rifles vs drones, sure! I can see 2nd Amendment types winning that confrontation.

Wolverines!

Tom

[Nicholas Scheuer]

The Mike Flynn's are not the majority. I think of traitors like him as little as possible.

[bobbys]

I still have my draft card, one A, still waiting to be called up, course im 69 but still roof with the 30 years olds, need a afternoon nap though, gotta have a nap. Would like the uniforms to be slimming.

[CWSmith]

So you can't imagine the 2nd Amendment types being the ones in the military in control of those drones?

That is a different question. You don't need unrestricted open carry laws to have a military coup and deer rifles won't stop it.

[Nicholas Scheuer]

^^^ Ya'but, now the "deer rifles" are AR-15's.

[Durnik]

...
When a group loses so badly while holding so much power, one has to wonder if they're trying to win at all?

or what they are trying to win.

say it again for the slow kids.

[skuthorp]

Its a dollar to a dump that the trump party is working on the Military and Intell. as we talk. The dems likely not but I could be wrong.