Nupur Sharma

[George.]

I have been seeing the story of the row she caused popping up in the headlines for a month now.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-62006476

My question is: what the hell did she say exactly that caused so much commotion? The news stories all dance around it without quoting any of it. Not even Google is answering my question, which is rare. Maybe the Bilge will come through?

Self-censorship by a press more concerned about political correctness than reporting the news? Or fear of retaliation? Either way it is sad.

[Peerie Maa]

Repeating her words in a press report is as likely to cause a row with Islamic states and organizations as much as the original statement.

This gives us a clue:

On May 26, national spokeperson of the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party Nupur Sharma made disparaging statements about Prophet Muhammad for marrying the young Aisha on national television. On June 5, the BJP suspended Sharma hours after the party said it “strongly denounces insult of any religious personalities”.

https://scroll.in/article/1025536/wh...-is-irrelevant

[George.]

Gotcha, thanks, PM.

[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]For centuries, Muslims worldwide have grappled with an uncomfortable question – how old was Aisha at the time of her marriage with the Prophet?[/COLOR]
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]On May 26, national spokeperson of the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party Nupur Sharma made disparaging statements about Prophet Muhammad for marrying the young Aisha on national television. [/COLOR]

[Jim Mahan]

It sounds like she said the prophet married her on TV rather than that the comments about the marriage were on TV.

One might think the proponents of the religion would've come up with an acceptable rationalization for their prophet engaging in an ancient custom that is frowned upon in modern times, but these are the same folk who are so intolerant as to have ordered the execution of a Danish cartoonist, for lambasting the prophet in a newspaper back in the eighties. The terrorists who attacked Charlie Hebdo in France were heard to say during the attack that they had now avenged the prophet. Fundies.

[George.]

Isn't the whole Bible full of child marriages and incest? Not to mention far worse stuff like rape and genocide. Islam is a subspecies of MEM, they all buy the whole tale and then waste a lifetime trying to rationalize it.

[Jim Mahan]

[George.]

It is amazing that back then people could say such things and still win elections.

[Peerie Maa]

Isn't the whole Bible full of child marriages and incest? Not to mention far worse stuff like rape and genocide. Islam is a subspecies of MEM, they all buy the whole tale and then waste a lifetime trying to rationalize it.

That is the problem with religions, especially young ones.
The Catholic Church used to torture people until they said what the church wanted to hear, then kill them before they could change their minds. And they believed that was doing their victims a favor. But they did grow out of it.

[George.]

Took them about 1500 years, though. That's some slow growth.

[Peerie Maa]

Took them about 1500 years, though. That's some slow growth.

Massive institutions have massive inertia.
Look how long it took the Vatican to apologize to Galileo.

Mind you, in order to not get caught out again, they set up their own observatory.

[bluedog225]

The thoroughness of the internet censorship is most striking.

Media concentration and search engine control.

The “old” internet where information could be shared freely between people is dead.

The promise of the internet was too much for our governing institutions to allow.

[birlinn]

Yeah, bluedog.
Pity we can't post bomb making tutorials on the web, or incite people to blow up groups we disagree with.

[Peerie Maa]

The thoroughness of the internet censorship is most striking.

Media concentration and search engine control.

The “old” internet where information could be shared freely between people is dead.

The promise of the internet was too much for our governing institutions to allow.

You have the cart before the horse.
The actual words are not being reported because of the various media outlets deciding to tread the line of reporting the effect, not the actual words. They do not want to trigger another Charly Hedbo.

Any way, why do you want to read her actual words? What detriment have you suffered by missing out on that? Is it not enough to know that Bharatiya Janata Party is a ****e stirring bunch of bigots attempting ethnic cleansing by making Muslims second class citizens?

[skuthorp]

Bluedog has a point birlinn, but then humans can never be trusted not to stuff up things for everyone so so do you.

[bluedog225]

Don’t make them mad or they’ll kill you? Yeah, I guess it could be fear based. There’s cause for that.

Though I miss the “how to make meth in the microwave” days.

[George.]

why do you want to read her actual words?

Why do people want to read Trump's actual words, or any other politician for that matter?

I personally like to think for myself. I don't accept that people get to be "triggered" into violence by mere words they don't like, and I want to make up my own mind about whether its justified at all.

[bluedog225]

No George, that’s radical. Let them think for you. Safer all around.

I guess we need to be careful with the reporting on Andrew, and Woody Allen, and etc, etc, etc. Don’t want them to pop around and commit murder. Or does this rule only apply to those with a history of murder? Maybe the clintons?

[Peerie Maa]

Why do people want to read Trump's actual words, or any other politician for that matter?

I personally like to think for myself. I don't accept that people get to be "triggered" into violence by mere words they don't like, and I want to make up my own mind about whether its justified at all.

Charly Hedbo?

[Peerie Maa]

I guess we need to be careful with the reporting on Andrew, and Woody Allen, and etc, etc, etc. Don’t want them to pop around and commit murder. Or does this rule only apply to those with a history of murder? Maybe the clintons?

Let us unpack this.
What would satisfy you.
A report that Andrew was accused of a relationship with a female above the age of consent?
A report that said female is accusing Andrew of abuse, at a location in London?
Photos of them in bed together?
What would satisfy you? How far should the reporters go? How much do you really need to know?

[Keith Wilson]

Bharatiya Janata Party is a ****e stirring bunch of bigots

True enough. And there are all too many Muslims who are religious fanatics from another age who believe they have an obligation to murder people who make fun of their prophet. Plenty of blame to go around. I'd still like to know what she said, although I understand why the BBC would be reluctant to repeat it verbatim.

[bob winter]

Seem to be a bit thin skinned.

[George.]

Used to be you actually had to do something to stir up violence and make the opposition look bad. The Nazis had to march and break windows and beat people up. Nowadays you just say or tweet something and the mob is at your service.

And yeah, I think of the BJP as the BJ Party, as in they suck.

[Peerie Maa]

True enough. And there are all too many Muslims who are religious fanatics from another age who believe they have an obligation to murder people who make fun of their prophet. Plenty of blame to go around. I'd still like to know what she said, although I understand why the BBC would be reluctant to repeat it verbatim.

Keith, NO ONE is repeating it.
The closest we got is my post above ^

On May 26, national spokeperson of the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party Nupur Sharma made disparaging statements about Prophet Muhammad for marrying the young Aisha on national television. On June 5, the BJP suspended Sharma hours after the party said it “strongly denounces insult of any religious personalities”.

https://scroll.in/article/1025536/wh...-is-irrelevant

[bluedog225]

6687597[/URL]]Let us unpack this.
What would satisfy you.
A report that Andrew was accused of a relationship with a female above the age of consent?
A report that said female is accusing Andrew of abuse, at a location in London?
Photos of them in bed together?
What would satisfy you? How far should the reporters go? How much do you really need to know?

In all seriousness, I think the public has a need to know about instances of statutory rape. And involvement in sex trafficking.

To include a list of all the men serviced by Epstein and his partners in crime.

Hiding this list from the public, as is currently the case, protects the criminals.

To allow them to live out their lives without public condemnation and, hopefully, criminal prosecution, strikes me as immoral and contrary to good policy.

[Keith Wilson]

I know it isn't just the BBC;some out of respect, some out of fear of fanatics. I still would like to know what she said that got folks so upset, but it's more idle curiosity than anything.

[Peerie Maa]

I know it isn't just the BBC;some out of respect, some out of fear of fanatics. I still would like to know what she said that got folks so upset, but it's more idle curiosity than anything.

Fill in the gaps:

Nupur Sharma made disparaging statements about Prophet Muhammad for marrying the young Aisha

Remembering that back when the prophet was alive, girls were married off extremely young. Younger even than some US states allow.

[JimD]

It sounds like she said the prophet married her on TV rather than that the comments about the marriage were on TV.

.

After proposing to her on the stadium jumbotron it seemed like the logical thing to do.

[Peerie Maa]

In all seriousness, I think the public has a need to know about instances of statutory rape. And involvement in sex trafficking.

To include a list of all the men serviced by Epstein and his partners in crime.

Hiding this list from the public, as is currently the case, protects the criminals.

To allow them to live out their lives without public condemnation and, hopefully, criminal prosecution, strikes me as immoral and contrary to good policy.

Two things to consider. Even a rapist is innocent until the jury hands down its verdict. Trial by media, satisfying the prurient curiosity of the mob, is not a nice thing.
You can report a crime is being tried, and that justice will be done, whilst protecting the confidentiality of the still innocent as well as of the alleged victim.
Until tried and found guilty, they deserve the same level of privacy as anyone else should expect.

[bluedog225]

Ghislaine Maxwell was sentenced to 20 years for sex trafficking minor girls for Jeffery Epstein.

Would you keep her client list secret until each on the list was found guilty, or publish the list? Is being a client of a convicted minor sex trafficker something one is entitled to keep private?

[George.]

Wiki:

Some traditional hadith sources state that Aisha was betrothed to Muhammad at the age of 6 or 7;^[12] other sources say she was 9 when she had a small marriage ceremony;^[13]

Beginning early twentieth century, Christian polemicists and orientalists would attack, what they deem to be Muhammad's deviant sexuality, for having married an underage girl;^[c] acute condemnations came from the likes of Harvey Newcomb and David Samuel Margoliouth while others were mild, choosing to explain how the "heat of tropics" made "girls of Arabia" mature at an early age.^[25][26] As colonial governments sought to regulate the age of consent and conflicted with traditional legal systems (Sharia etc.), pointers to Aisha's age at marriage proliferated across the archives in explaining the backwardness of Muslim societies.^[26] While most Muslims defended the traditionally accepted age of Aisha with vigor emphasizing on cultural relativism, the political dimensions, Aisha's "exceptional qualities" etc., some — Abbas Mahmoud al-Aqqad in Egypt and others^[d] — chose to re-calculate the age and fix it at early adolescence as a tool of social reform in their homelands or even, mere pandering to different audiences.^[25][26][e] Across the late-twentieth century and early twentieth century, Aisha's age has become a tool of polemicists — accusations of Pedophilia directed at Muhammad, not as a diagnostic category but as the highest category of evil, have been floated as the justifications for apparently higher prevalence of child marriage in Muslim societies etc.^{[26][page needed]}

[Peerie Maa]

Ghislaine Maxwell was sentenced to 20 years for sex trafficking minor girls for Jeffery Epstein.

Would you keep her client list secret until each on the list was found guilty, or publish the list? Is being a client of a convicted minor sex trafficker something one is entitled to keep private?

What part of innocent until proven guilty are you having trouble with?

[Canoeyawl]

It is amazing that back then people could say such things and still win elections.

Win Elections?
They did a hell of a lot more than win elections, they made elections possible...

[Peerie Maa]

It is amazing that back then people could say such things and still win elections.

Not really, back then voters were much better informed, and strove to continue to be as informed as they could be.

[JimD]

Ghislaine Maxwell was sentenced to 20 years for sex trafficking minor girls for Jeffery Epstein.

Would you keep her client list secret until each on the list was found guilty, or publish the list? Is being a client of a convicted minor sex trafficker something one is entitled to keep private?

They don't have to be found guilty but they do have to be charged.

[bluedog225]

Prosecutorial discretion is informed by public opinion and values.

Govt officials witholding information from the public helps enable ongoing criminal behavior. “They don’t need to know what we know.”

There is a long tradition of protecting rich and powerful men who diddle children. It’s a shame. And poor public policy to hide the associations pending charges that will not be brought because the public doesn’t know. Round and round it goes. E.g. Savile.