Day-sailing an Ilur along MA coast (and NE in general), is it a good idea?

[slow-sailor1720]

Hi everyone,

New member here, but I have been lurking here for quite a bit.
I have been progressively convinced by many threads into starting to build an Ilur from a kit as I have some basic woodworking skill and I am stubborn enough to not give up.
Before I make some impulsive decisions and order the kit right now, I want to make sure that I can actually use the boat.
For context I live in the greater Boston area (495 and Route 2 intersection), about an hour or more away from about any ocean boat ramp.

I have been quite attracted by the apparent sea worthiness of the Ilur design along with the form factor that would fit nicely in my garage.
I have some sailing experience, I am actually from France, where I have been enjoying the small coastal bays with sheltered waters and where one is mostly surrounded by sailboats. I wouldn't mind sailing on lakes but I would much rather enjoy some salted water.

Based on what I remember about building categories from european standards, and since the Ilur is category C for up to 3 people, my guess is that it is built to handle wind up to force 6, waves up to 2 meters, and can be registered in an EU country to go as far as 20 miles from a shelter. I probably wouldn't go that far, or go in such rough seas, but it is good to know that it is technically possible.

It looks like a lot of people here sail such small wooden boats on the coast of Maine with all these beautiful coves and bays. I am definitely up for that, but that's about 2 hours for me to drive up to Casco Bay vs 45 minutes for Boston Harbor (Deer Island). At the end the goal is to relax in a quiet environment and not be too disturbed by obnoxious high powered power boats.

Here are a bunch of places and daysails I thought and that would appeal to me about and my questions whether it's a sound place for sailing there, or is that the job for a bigger boat? I don't think I need a 35ft cruiser for these.

- Boston Harbor and Islands: on another forum people say that the many power boats/ferries create hazardous wakes for small open craft, would it be crazy to sail there with an Ilur?
- Gloucester, Manchester, Salem, Marblehead: definitely more exposed to the north east swell.
- Rockport, Plum Island and west of Cape Ann: it looks good, I was wondering about currents and powerboats.
- Boston to Ptown: sounds like a fun day/weekend sailing and whale watching. Too ambitious of a trip for an Ilur?
- Falmouth to Tisbury: I read that I should beware of the fog, but the trip looked short on the map and doable over a full day with time for lunch on the Vineyard.
- Westport to Cuttyhunk: A bit longer than from the cape to MV, but not too bad looking on paper.
- Buzzards Bay in general: it sounds like the afternoon south west breeze can make it choppy? Potential for fun on an Ilur or should one prepare for a wet afternoon?

Other New England places:
- RI/Narragansett Bay: sounds pretty much the stuff. Does it get crowded there?
- Of course all the places along the Maine coast look perfect for this: Saco Bay, Casco Bay etc... Any particular recommendations?


Any particulars experience with this area on a small wooden boat like an Ilur or should I look at something different?

Before people mention them, I know the places to avoid:
Woods hole
Cape cod Canal
Merrimack river entrance.
Anything to add?

Thanks!

[StevenBauer]

The beauty of a trailer sailor is you can get to your cruising grounds at 70 mph. Keel boats are limited to how far you can sail until you need to turn around and get back.

I saw an Ilur in person last weekend at Mystic. It looks a very capable boat. I’d want floatation for some of your trips but it could be removable. If you work your way up to the more challenging areas and keep a weather eye out you should be fine in your Ilur.

[Ben Fuller]

John Hartman who checks into the forum has years of experience in his Ilur. A fine boat for New England coastal and lake cruising. Powerboat wakes aren't really concentrated the way they are say in the Chesapeake, and as long as you have some breeze not an issue. Lots of opportunities for day and overnights. Boston Harbor and islands are fine, say going out of the south side around Hull. Keeps you out of shipping channels. Duxbury harbor is very very shallow.

[The Jeff]

I imagine you've come across him, but Roger Barnes has a lot of great videos with his Ilur. Definitely a capable boat.

https://www.youtube.com/c/RogerBarnesMusings/videos

[Landrith]

I imagine you've come across him, but Roger Barnes has a lot of great videos with his Ilur. Definitely a capable boat.

https://www.youtube.com/c/RogerBarnesMusings/videos

At the farm messing around with my blue Thistle, I do impressions of Roger Barnes' style of "homely" dinghy cruising to amuse myself. I use my tan canvas cover as Barnes' Ilur boom tent. On the same length and beam, I can never achieve the comfort Barnes has set up his Ilur for. The best I can do is almost a Frank Dye Wayfarer suffer through level of comfort...

[John hartmann]

Yes, the Ilur would be an excellent choice for what you have in mind.285102E9-5CBF-41DE-AE96-2E84CA081C59.jpg

[Woxbox]

I agree, you have a good plan. And we'd all appreciate a build thread here when you get started.

[DavidC]

I've crossed Buzzards Bay (from Panadaram to Cuttyhunk) and Vineyard Sound (from Waquoit Bay to Vineyard Haven) in a 15.5' Michalak AF3 (flat bottomed with a cuddy cabin, single balanced lug sail). These are great sails and I have also started those same trips and turned around to try another day. As is true with most small boat sailing, you must choose your weather/tide/wave height window appropriately, but the trips were quite do-able and enjoyable.

Re. Vineyard Sound: On a busy summer day, it can be like sailing in a washing machine. There are so many boat wakes, which, added to the wind/tide affects, can make for a bumpy ride. Also, Vineyard Sound tides/current must be respected, or you may find yourself sitting still (or going backwards) or worse. Keep an eye on your relative position to landmarks or GPS track; a little inattention and you may find yourself halfway to Nantucket! 5 - 10 kts of wind; less than 2 foot wave height; either side of slack tide, and it is beautiful sailing in a small boat.

Re. Buzzards Bay: Sailing in the morning is usually best wind-wise. If the current in the afternoon opposes the typical Southwest wind, you might wish you were somewhere else. Current and tide both coming in from the southwest can be a lot of fun (sailing up and down the large, regular swells). If you're going to cross Buzzards Bay at the Canal end of the bay, you must add the Canal current/tides to the Bay currents and tides. They are not the same, and being anywhere near the Canal entrance with a tide coming out of the Canal into an incoming tide in the Bay is not safe in a small boat. (At the Westport/Cuttyhunk end, the Canal is not a factor.)

70E050F9-06D7-4382-816D-456F79419685.jpg
Michalak AF3 "Killyrover" on the shore of Cuttyhunk.

[Rich Jones]

I provided the safety boat when John Hartmann did the capsize testing on his newly launched Ilur.
The floatation allows the boat to float high and it is easily righted and pumped dry.
A very sea-worthy boat.
Of course, with that comes the temptation to go out on days that you shouldn't.

[slow-sailor1720]

Wow this is wonderful!

Thank you each and every one of you for taking the time to share some local knowledge!
Regarding safety, it is good to hear about the floatation provided by the hull. As usual reefing earlier is always a good idea.... Any particular rig that would be more seaworthy than other. The yawl rig that John Hartmann uses looks gorgeous, but I was tempted by a lug sloop rig as it is closer to what I am used to sail.

This makes me more confident that I am doing the right thing.
Regarding the build thread, I will make sure to do one. This looks like the perfect winter task to start if I can clear up garage space by then (currently working on getting rid of my gas guzzling late 80s Corvette).

I will certainly read other build thread on this forum again before I drop the gun.

[StevenBauer]

The yawl rig is especially good if you are sailing short handed. Just pull in the mizzen sheet tight and loosen the main sheet and the boat will point into the wind like an arrow. This gives you the ability to reef, raise sail, lower sail, pee, make a sandwich, or whatever while the the boat just slowly backs down.

Also amazingly good at steering. It’s so fun in the right conditions to steer just using the mizzen sheet and main sheet.

[pez_leon]

I can't advise on the region or the boat (thought I want one, too) but wanted to chime in to support the idea of using CNC parts. I am currently assembling the hull of my Vivier-designed Seil from CNC parts on the CNC jig and have been delighted with the process. My build thread has plenty of pictures.
I opted to sequence my build "backwards", meaning that I am assembling the hull last after having already nearly completed the oars, centerboard, rudder, transoms, spars, and sail. This approach has allowed me to build slowly without occupying most of my small space with an unusable hull. I've also been able to experiment and make mistakes on smaller, more easily replaced parts before starting the hull.
One thing that you might consider (but that I won't go so far as to unreservedly recommend) - you don't have to buy a whole-boat kit to get the CNC cut parts. I bought the dxf files directly from Mr. Vivier, then sent the files to a local sign shop with a CNC cutter. This meant that I was able to order only the sheets that I wanted, and not, for example, the sheets that contained the rudder, centerboard, and transom. Because I could buy what I wanted when I needed it I did not need to store the entire kit while I worked on the foils and spars. It also meant that I had to keep a careful eye on the sign shop, because they didn't know boats and didn't have a perfect overall picture of what they were making and so forgot to cut one sheet. This is a mistake that is easier to make than you might think - many sheets are duplicated. If I could have found a kit maker on this coast who would have cut what I wanted, I think I would have gone with them, but I don't regret hiring the sign shop either.
Please do start a build page!

- James

[slow-sailor1720]

Thanks James for your feedback and for the build backwards suggestion.

I have my own desktop CNC (shapeoko2, hobby grade) and a bunch of 3d printers that I used for much smaller projects. So, at one point in my research I was thinking about building a 4 by 8 CNC out of 3d printed parts and electrical conduit for less than $800 (it's the MPCNC Low Rider, the design is pretty convincing). I can't imagine the time a hobby grade CNC would take to cut through all the 18 mm plywood parts. (3 mm cut depth at 8mm/s that what's I run on the desktop CNC).
Also I would probably be crucified by the admiral for the noise and the space this takes...

[DeanP]

I think it would be fun to try out all the locations you mention above. The Ilur another poster mentioned having seen at the Mystic Boat Show is moored in Providence RI. I've never sailed there, but it's similar in distance from you as some of the other places you listed. I'm building a Vivier design (a Beg-Meil) in my basement in Bolton, MA (very close to you, I would think). I'm installing the deck plywood currently. Feel free to stop by if you would like to see something under construction.

Good luck,

Dean

[Garret]

The yawl rig is especially good if you are sailing short handed. Just pull in the mizzen sheet tight and loosen the main sheet and the boat will point into the wind like an arrow. This gives you the ability to reef, raise sail, lower sail, pee, make a sandwich, or whatever while the the boat just slowly backs down.

Also amazingly good at steering. It’s so fun in the right conditions to steer just using the mizzen sheet and main sheet.

My brother brought his yawl (way bigger than in Ilur) into a dock without touching the tiller - just mizzen & main as you describe. He sure did freak some people out, but the boat ended up at a dead stop 6" from the dock & parallel to it - in-between 2 boats tied up.

[neil.henderson]

The Illur is a terrific design I think for say siling and short overnighters. If you want something a bit larger and with a cabin to keep stuff out of the weather you could have a look a Francois Viviers Jewell design which is 18' LOA and yawl rigged. I am currently building a Caledonia Yawl designed by Iain Oughtred as I wanted to sail single handed and have the safety of a boat which will sit head to wind easily. I may build a Jewell in a few years time - still think it is an intensely practical attractive boat.
Good luck with the search.

Regards Neil

[John hartmann]

Garret and Neil make good points. The yawl’s ease of handling are well described in many threads on the forum, and it is extremely common on sail and oar boats used for dinghy cruising with good reason. A couple of other thoughts for you—the Ilur will be simpler and quicker to rig than a boat like the Jewell. I am sailing a jewell, and have spent much time and thought to setting it up for ease of setting and striking the rig single handed. I’m under an hour, but it’s still longer than the Ilur. For daysailing, the jewell might be on the outside of the bell curve in terms of ease of use, especially at the ramp.
If you will be doing any multiday cruising, the jewell comes into it’s own, with plenty of space for stowage of gear and a big, comfy cockpit. The gentler motion of the jewell, and the bigger, heavier boat’s ability to dampen the low amplitude motions of the hull make the jewell a much more restful place on a trip of several days. Under way, the jewell is also a much less physical boat to sail. Here is the Ilur on the outside of Swans Island:
AD1A3174-4CDF-480E-BE0D-C8DE11C87BB4.jpg
And here, Umami on Champlain in similar wind:
02979D08-6A1A-452B-B313-4AADA54EBC86.jpg
The CNC kits from Clint Chase are super, and put a big project within reach for many. The jewell was a much bigger project with the deck, cabin and ballasted box keel, but not daunting. Another design you may want to look at is Clint’s Calendar Islands 18. I just spent 4 days cruising in company with a friend who has recently finished one. It is a beautiful and seriously capable boat, too:
FA25F469-2DF0-4317-8B60-A62A1F78A974.jpg

[John hartmann]

And another picture for comparison, the Calendar Islands 18 and Jewell anchored side by side while the morning sun dries dew from the boom tents before stowing them:
D4E8D4DD-859C-44D1-BC07-A3034201E1E2.jpg

lastly, an image which shows the difference between dinghy cruising in an open boat vs a “pocket cruiser”
7D5C1F48-D114-414D-A8C5-4462404468D8.jpg

open boat dinghy cruising takes a minimalist approach to gear and stowage to keep the cockpit clear, especially when underway. The cabin boat provides space for would be flotsam to stay dry, and out from under foot; dry bags and straps or lashing lines are an integral part of open boat dinghy cruising.

[rbgarr]

I grew up not far from you (Rte 2 and 128) and spent my early years cruising with my family to all of the places you mention except Narragansett Bay and the Merrimack River. If it were me I'd take 495 down to somewhere like Westport, find a launch ramp/ boatyard where I could leave the trailer securely and cruise downwind wherever the conditions favor. Let's just limit the cruise(s) to Massachsuetts for a start:

-SW winds may take you to the Elizabeth and Nantucket Sound islands and southern shoreline as far as Chatham or Pleasant Bay.
-Or into Buzzards Bay.
-There are transportation options to get you back to retrieve the trailer and relaunch in Barnstable harbor on the north side of the Cape.
-From there a few days of sailing out to P-Town, Wellfleet, Rock Harbor and back to Barnstable.
-Then trailer to the South Shore somewhere: Sandwich, Plymouth, Scituate, Duxbury, Hull to take in the islands of Boston harbor.
-Then trailer to Salem and around Cape Ann's offerings like the Annisquam and Essex creeks.

That's what I'd want to do in an ILUR. It would take all summer.
Cape_Cod_Bay_map.jpg

[slow-sailor1720]

I think it would be fun to try out all the locations you mention above. The Ilur another poster mentioned having seen at the Mystic Boat Show is moored in Providence RI. I've never sailed there, but it's similar in distance from you as some of the other places you listed. I'm building a Vivier design (a Beg-Meil) in my basement in Bolton, MA (very close to you, I would think). I'm installing the deck plywood currently. Feel free to stop by if you would like to see something under construction.

Good luck,

Dean

Thank you Dean! I am on the Acton side of the Acton Boxboro city line so not far at all from you.
I have seen the beg meil design and your build thread. You are doing a awesome job ! I'll definitely shoot you an MP once my summer travel is over.

[slow-sailor1720]

I grew up not far from you (Rte 2 and 128) and spent my early years cruising with my family to all of the places you mention except Narragansett Bay and the Merrimack River. If it were me I'd take 495 down to somewhere like Westport, find a launch ramp/ boatyard where I could leave the trailer securely and cruise downwind wherever the conditions favor. Let's just limit the cruise(s) to Massachsuetts for a start:

-SW winds may take you to the Elizabeth and Nantucket Sound islands and southern shoreline as far as Chatham or Pleasant Bay.
-Or into Buzzards Bay.
-There are transportation options to get you back to retrieve the trailer and relaunch in Barnstable harbor on the north side of the Cape.
-From there a few days of sailing out to P-Town, Wellfleet, Rock Harbor and back to Barnstable.
-Then trailer to the South Shore somewhere: Sandwich, Plymouth, Scituate, Duxbury, Hull to take in the islands of Boston harbor.
-Then trailer to Salem and around Cape Ann's offerings like the Annisquam and Essex creeks.

That's what I'd want to do in an ILUR. It would take all summer.
Cape_Cod_Bay_map.jpg

I am glad to hear another feedback from a local.
I had not though about retrieving the trailer independently without sailing back to the launch ramp and that definitely opens so many cruises.

I can't wait to have the boat finished and a full summer of sailing.

[slow-sailor1720]

Thank you John for these pictures. The Jewell indeed has some added practicality at the expense of a more complicated build and space requirement I believe, but also like you said it can take longer at the boat ramp.

[neil.henderson]

Loved the photos of Francois's designs on the water.............

As an aside you can add stability to a dinghy style boat by adding lead to the centreboard. I have put about 6 kilos in the board of my Caledonia Yawl and have about 4 kilos in the board of my Gannet. I am in the process of encapsulating lead ingots (?) in timber which I can then lay on the sole either side of the centreboard case. We shall see how well this works.

Regards Neil

[AJZimm]

I don't think you have mentioned anywhere whether you intend to sail with a small outboard motor or to go entirely engineless and rely on oars for when the wind doesn’t blow.
I don’t know the area you plan to cruise, at all, but adding an outboard into the picture will likely affect the choice of boat. An open boat designed primarily for oars can certainly accommodate an outboard, but in my limited experience you might be happier, if you decide to include one from the start, to choose a design where the outboard is better integrated. It looks like the Jewell mentioned above would be a batter candidate for an outboard, for example, than the Ilur.

[Clinton B Chase]

One thing that you might consider (but that I won't go so far as to unreservedly recommend) - you don't have to buy a whole-boat kit to get the CNC cut parts. I bought the dxf files directly from Mr. Vivier, then sent the files to a local sign shop with a CNC cutter.

- James

Actually with the Ilur I have exclusive right to that boat kit in the US. But that is not the reason to use a company that specializes in a given design. THe reason you would use someone who specializes in a design in their catalog is because of the features, experience, and knowledge you have access to through their package. You will not get that buying a set of files and asking Joe at a local shop to cut your kit. A kit is much more than just ply parts...and a proper, complete one is certainly more than a sum of all the parts. My 2 cents.

[pez_leon]

Actually with the Ilur I have exclusive right to that boat kit in the US.

Whoops! Goes to show what I know, and sorry for stepping on any toes. Clint is of course entirely correct in his description of the benefit of a kit. I can see from some pictures of Ilur builds that the whole thing from the jig to the ply to the timber is an integrated ecosystem, even more so than the Seil I'm building. Looks like a fantastic way to go.

- James

[PAJ]

Hello. I have messed about plenty in my Vivier-designed Youkou-Lili in the Essex river / Essex and Ipswich bays, and latterly the Sakonnet river, the eastern-most finger of Narragansett bay. All of these wonderful and surprisingly, never too busy places to sail, row and fish, and about equidistant for you. You could spend an entire summer poking about Narragansett bay. There are several decent ramps on the Sakonnet.

[slow-sailor1720]

Hello. I have messed about plenty in my Vivier-designed Youkou-Lili in the Essex river / Essex and Ipswich bays, and latterly the Sakonnet river, the eastern-most finger of Narragansett bay. All of these wonderful and surprisingly, never too busy places to sail, row and fish, and about equidistant for you. You could spend an entire summer poking about Narragansett bay. There are several decent ramps on the Sakonnet.

Thanks for your feedback!
I was fascinated by the Youkou-Lili at first and actually got the evaluation folder from Vivier's website for both the ilur and the Youkou Lili.
At the end the slightly larger beam and shorter length of the Ilur (best use of garage space) made me lean towards it.
What rig do you have? Do you single hand it?

[Tom Hunter]

- Boston Harbor and Islands: on another forum people say that the many power boats/ferries create hazardous wakes for small open craft, would it be crazy to sail there with an Ilur?
I think the Ilur can handle it well enough. The ferry routes are known, so don’t sit in one . The islands are fun to explore. In some areas there is current, like Hull Gut that may run faster than the Ilur can go at times. Buy a copy of Eldridge ELDRIDGE Tide and Pilot Book before you go sailing. Buy one now it’s great fuel for dreams.

- Gloucester, Manchester, Salem, Marblehead: definitely more exposed to the north east swell.
I race off Marblehead almost every Saturday of the summer. Don’t worry about the swell. If the wind is light there will be more powerboat wakes. Salem sound is a nice area to sail and fairly sheltered. The harbors in Marblehead, Salem, Manchester by the Sea and Gloucester are all wonderful to see. There are a number of locations that you can launch from.

- Rockport, Plum Island and west of Cape Ann: it looks good, I was wondering about currents and powerboats.
The tidal estuaries are great for a boat like an Ilur. Again currents can matter and so can losing track of a river channel when the tide is going out. There are often powerboats going for beach parties in this area but that does not mean you may not go.

- Boston to Ptown: sounds like a fun day/weekend sailing and whale watching. Too ambitious of a trip for an Ilur?
Possible if you are skilled and have a good weather window but it is 40-50 miles and you likely average 3mph. I’m not sure I would recommend it. I would bring plenty of gas and an engine. If you get becalmed 20 miles from a harbor of refuge you may want to leave before the weather gets bad.

- Falmouth to Tisbury: I read that I should beware of the fog, but the trip looked short on the map and doable over a full day with time for lunch on the Vineyard.
This part of Vineyard sound is a tidal river. If you pick it correctly you will make 6 or even 7 knts over the bottom and if you pick it wrong you will make 1. It’s a very nice area to sail. Again buy yourself a copy of Eldridge.

- Westport to Cuttyhunk: A bit longer than from the cape to MV, but not too bad looking on paper.

I have not done this, so cannot comment.

- Buzzards Bay in general: it sounds like the afternoon south west breeze can make it choppy? Potential for fun on an Ilur or should one prepare for a wet afternoon?

Buzzards bay is wet fun when the breeze comes up.

North of Boston there are trains that have stops in walking distance of the harbors in Lynn, Swampscott, Salem, Beverly, Manchester by the Sea, Gloucester, Rockport and Newburyport. With a little planning it’s possible to leave one harbor and take the train back to your car later.

[slow-sailor1720]

Wow thank you Tom this is such a good wealth of information.

I am getting the tide and pilot book now! I always need fuel for my dreams.

[PAJ]

Hi slow-sailor
These days I have a loose footed "misainier" standing lug, which I prefer to the spritsail and jib that I started out with, as I single hand mostly (my wife finds the Youkou Lili a little too exciting in a breeze). I think you have made the right choice for your purposes, as the Ilur is much roomier and must be a better sailer. For rowing to a fishing spot early in the morning before the wind gets up, and being able to pop the rig in to come home on the breeze, the YL is perfect, and like all of M. Vivier's designs, very pretty.

[slow-sailor1720]

Very good to hear! I hope to see you in the Sakonnet river in a couple of year (hopefully not too many) once the build is over.

[WI-Tom]

Hi slow-sailor
These days I have a loose footed "misainier" standing lug, which I prefer to the spritsail and jib that I started out with

Here's another vote of approval for the misainier rig--that's what I have (I sail mostly single-handed). Sheet, downhaul, tiller, and no other controls to worry about whatsoever. Reefing? Just roll up the sail--no boom, no outhaul, no nothing about it.

I call this the perfect rig for someone who wants a boat that disallows Type A behavior. A lazy sailor's rig. It's true you can't control sail twist--but on the other hand, that's an automatic safety valve that depowers the sail.

Tom

[PAJ]

slow sailor - should your wanderings bring you down this way would be happy to show you the boat and perhaps indulge in some type B behaviour with the misainier..

[slow-sailor1720]

I'm dealing with enough type A people during the week, that I do need type B behavior during the weekend. My blood pressure would definitely appreciate that!