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Thread: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

  1. #36
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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Unlike Trump & his supporters (including his goons/enablers like Moscow Mitch), Liz Cheney seems to have the integrity to not violate the oath she took. She gets big points for that. However, don't forget just how wrong she is on so many issues.
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  2. #37
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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Yeah. A bit of irony - from what I've seen, so much of making Jan 6 investigation rests on... a Republican.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Yeah. A bit of irony - from what I've seen, so much of making Jan 6 investigation rests on... a Republican.
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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Quote Originally Posted by Garret View Post
    Unlike Trump & his supporters (including his goons/enablers like Moscow Mitch), Liz Cheney seems to have the integrity to not violate the oath she took. She gets big points for that. However, don't forget just how wrong she is on so many issues.
    It is a weird evolution to be in opposition to the Republican Party platform for what it says to “holy crap they want to abdicate to people who want to burn it all down!” A Republican In Name Only is a Republican who wants to use the gov’t to do x,y and z. A Trumper is the embodiment of the anti-gov’t rhetoric to shrink gov’t down enough to drown it in the bathtub. The GOP entertained the anti-gov’t strain all the way to a president who was willing to have armed protestors go to the Capitol. We’re effed.

  5. #40
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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Reich made an argument. That someone like Cheney is necessary as a transition president to ease us back toward representative democracy... and away from the verge of another Civil War.

    Whether you agree or not, few of you have addressed his arguments.
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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    I agree with David G. Most of the comments are not about the question. Who will defend American democracy if they are president? Can anyone suggest someone better? There may be better choices, I have not given it much thought. I am certain that Cheney would, because she is doing it now.

    I'm not sure the other policy questions matter much if we move from our system of the last 250 years to something more like Egypt, Kazakstan, or Uganda.
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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Reich made an argument. That someone like Cheney is necessary as a transition president to ease us back toward representative democracy... and away from the verge of another Civil War.

    Whether you agree or not, few of you have addressed his arguments.
    Hmmm.... I thought 'we' had - and consider Reich's argument sound.

    It's a sorry state of affairs.
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  8. #43
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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    Reich made an argument. That someone like Cheney is necessary as a transition president to ease us back toward representative democracy... and away from the verge of another Civil War.

    Whether you agree or not, few of you have addressed his arguments.
    I do not agree. Reforming the GOP doesn’t require a GOP president. That Cheney wishes to preserve a functioning democracy doesn’t make her the White Knight for the country.

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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    See my signature.

    She and Kinzinger have made a principled stand on this one issue, but that's it. On everything else, she is, after all, Darth Vader's daughter.

    She wiii likely get beaten in the primary.
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  10. #45
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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerarddm View Post
    See my signature.

    She and Kinzinger have made a principled stand on this one issue, but that's it. On everything else, she is, after all, Darth Vader's daughter.

    She wiii likely get beaten in the primary.
    Ya see, she doesn’t want to burn the country down so she should be president. How can you not agree to such a brilliant argument? It’s like believing Susan Collins.

  11. #46
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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Sure. Got a Democrat who can win? No?

    So who you prefer - Cheney - or trump@2?
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    I always thought we were not measured by the sins of our fathers but of our selves. Those scales of judgement in the forum are based on hate of the other rather than commonality. Cheney is a middle aged lesbian politician representing Wyoming who tries to follow ethical party lines in a highly dysfunctional party influenced by Trump in a rapidly changing United States; she has proven herself to be moral and responsible in both her private and public life. She risked her career in an attempt to save a country she loves. Unlike Bobby, she willing has served her country honorably whether one agrees with all her political positions or not. She earned my respect these months. Nearly 30 percent of the time in office, her votes are on the same page as my own representative Barbara Lee (D) California.

    https://projects.propublica.org/repr...arbara-lee/115

    Screen Shot 2022-06-30 at 8.03.11 AM.jpg
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 06-30-2022 at 10:26 AM.
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  13. #48
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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Cheney, Ted. Cheney.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    You know the only thing that is going to unite this country.....we all know it, but no one wants to say it or have it happen.....is a war that affects all of us, not just the few who for whatever reason decide to serve, and their families. Without a major catastrophic event to slap us all upside the head and force us to understand that we have a hell of a lot more in common with one another rather than focus on our differences, I don't see a road back. Not at all.

    Mickey Lake
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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Transient cohesion after 9/11 - which was quickly abused by bush/cheney et al.

    Unite us all? For a 'long time'? That's gonna take one helluva war! Lots of loss and destruction.

    What's plan B?
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    And when you look at 'the cause' of our discontent - seemingly, a Confederacy intent on rising/taking over, indefinitely - I expect the dynamics aren't there.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Cheney, Ted. Cheney.
    Dick Cheney did a lot damage to this country. Liz Cheney may be helping to restore it.

    (George - i read by shape of the word and not the letters. Thanks for giving me the "e" clue that I missed.)
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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    A situation of "the lesser of two evils" is not resolved by declaring that both candidates are evil. It's a given. If the facts are that Cheney would defeat Trump, but Trump would defeat the Democrat, you're choosing between Cheney and Trump. You'll just have to quell your disgust reaction.

    But I don't see how it can develop that way. Cheney as Republican nominee would mean Trump was already defeated. Why the necessity then to vote for her over the Democrat?

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  19. #54
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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    I always thought we were not measured by the sins of our fathers but of our selves. Those scales of judgement in the forum are based on hate of the other rather than commonality. Cheney is a middle aged lesbian politician representing Wyoming who tries to follow ethical party lines in a highly dysfunctional party influenced by Trump in a rapidly changing United States; she has proven herself to be moral and responsible in both her private and public life. She risked her career in an attempt to save a country she loves. Unlike Bobby, she willing has served her country honorably whether one agrees with all her political positions or not. She earned my respect these months. Nearly 30 percent of the time in office, her votes are on the same page as my own representative Barbara Lee (D) California.

    https://projects.propublica.org/repr...arbara-lee/115

    Screen Shot 2022-06-30 at 8.03.11 AM.jpg
    1. Elizabeth, Liz, Cheney not Mary Cheney who is queer.

    2. Liz Cheney through nepotism got a State Dept job for Dick doing a work around on the State Dept for further remaking the Middle East in our image. So maybe she was just a useful tool for Dick and the neocons but she was also an advocate for torture. So no my objections aren’t based on her father but what she has said and done.

    https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.ph...erations_Group

    Iran-Syria Operations Group
    Jump to navigationJump to search
    The Iran-Syria Operations Group (ISOG) appears to be an extension of the Office of Iranian Affairs (OIA), which, in turn, is a reincarnation of the Office of Special Plans (OSP).
    The OIA, "apparently housed in the same Pentagon offices inhabited by its predecessor and involving some of the same slimy personnel," including Abram Shulsky, head of the OSP under Douglas Feith. OIA staff report to "none other than Elizabeth Cheney, Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs, and daughter of the Vice President," Gary Leupp wrote May 29, 2006, in Dissident Voice.
    The purpose of ISOG, likewise headed by Elizabeth Cheney, is "to encourage regime change in Iran. It's no secret that Cheney has over $80 million at her disposal to promote democracy in Iran. But ISOG isn't simply about promoting democracy. It's about helping to craft official policy, doing so not with one but two countries in its sights, and creating a policymaking apparatus that parallels--and skirts--Foggy Bottom's suspect Iran desk," Lawrence F. Kaplan wrote April 10, 2006, in The New Republic Online.

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    A situation of "the lesser of two evils" is not resolved by declaring that both candidates are evil. It's a given. If the facts are that Cheney would defeat Trump, but Trump would defeat the Democrat, you're choosing between Cheney and Trump. You'll just have to quell your disgust reaction.

    But I don't see how it can develop that way. Cheney as Republican nominee would mean Trump was already defeated. Why the necessity then to vote for her over the Democrat?

    Support her in the primaries, as best you can; vote against her in the election.
    The solution to that as obvious: run Cheney as a Democrat.

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  21. #56
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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    Dick Cheney did a lot damage to this country. Liz Cheney may be helping to restore it.

    (George - i read by shape of the word and not the letters. Thanks for giving me the "e" clue that I missed.)
    Dick Cheney is a whole other level of destruction but just because Liz doesn’t want to burn the house down is a mighty low standard for presidency let alone reformation of the GOP. GOP will reform when it has no other choice not because she is willing to trash TFG.

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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Dick Cheney is a whole other level of destruction but just because Liz doesn’t want to burn the house down is a mighty low standard for presidency let alone reformation of the GOP. GOP will reform when it has no other choice not because she is willing to trash TFG.
    The GOP can not reform in its present state without resorting to base inclinations. Maybe they did run themselves out but 70 million voters are still angry and think the country went the wrong way in the last years. Who represents them and those pissed residing in fly over states is up for grabs. Turning that anger into wealthy tax cuts is too valuable resource for the ruling class to ignore.
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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    The GOP can not reform in its present state without resorting to base inclinations. Maybe they did run themselves out but 70 million voters are still angry and think the country went the wrong way in the last years. Who represents them and those pissed residing in fly over states is up for grabs. Turning that anger into wealthy tax cuts is too valuable resource for the ruling class to ignore.
    Fine, let Liz represent them but I don’t think they want her. She is tainted by her participation in the Jan6 investigation.

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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Fine, let Liz represent them but I don’t think they want her. She is tainted by her participation in the Jan6 investigation.
    We need some healing and restoration of confidence in government from both sides. She may not be the one but at least there is talk of getting away from Trump World and those who willingly became hostages to anti democratic forces who still seek power and could run for the oval office.
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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    I actually wrote her this letter:

    Dear Congresswoman,

    "I live in NJ, and I cannot vote for you, but I do hope you’ll read this letter.

    I never in my life believed I’d be writing this letter. I never voted by party until Reagan. He totally turned me off, and demonstrated how being dishonest could win him votes, but, ultimately, be bad for our country.

    While I have disagreed with Republicans in general since then, I am surprised and delighted that you have stood up for what’s right at great personal risk. I can’t know how this all ends, but I see your actions as nothing less than heroic.

    The FACT remains that this country managed to elect a man who cheated on all of his wives. This is a ‘great businessman’ who’s actually bankrupted most of his businesses. This is a man who LOST suits for discrimination, failing to pay contractors, fraud, and misuse of charity funds. He raised money under false pretenses. He’s totally ignored the emoluments clause, and has literally eaten, flushed down the toilet, or in other ways destroyed documents he is commanded to save.

    When the witness from Arizona testified to all the things he was asked to do, but refrained from doing, but would vote for Trump again, it spoke volumes.

    YOU have stood up for our constitution and our nation. For that you have my gratitude."


    That said, I have disagreed with her on most issues over the years, and while I'd rather her than a Trump supporter in office, I'd prefer a democrat.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Dick Cheney is a whole other level of destruction but just because Liz doesn’t want to burn the house down is a mighty low standard for presidency let alone reformation of the GOP. GOP will reform when it has no other choice not because she is willing to trash TFG.
    But an unobtainably high one for today's Republican party.
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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Quote Originally Posted by WI-Tom View Post
    The solution to that as obvious: run Cheney as a Democrat.
    Many Democrats and Progressives didn't vote for Hillary Clinton against Trump.
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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Ms. Cheney is what is called the "loyal opposition". Her idea of what the US should be is opposed to what the Democrats would like, but she is still loyal to the country. She generally wants what is best for the country, not for her billionaire overlords.

    I am certain she feels a lot of freedom right now that she is on the outs with her party. She can do what she wants to see this thing thru with no repercussions to getting re-elected
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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Thanks to everyone who is now taking this thread seriously. Ted, the voting comparison is very interesting.

    Over the course of my life voters have voted less and less on principle, and more and more on what I will call "comfort": the old lady who I have always voted for but is showing signs of dementia, the Senator who is "concerned" but never takes action. Years ago at least some of those people lost their office, and the others paid more attention.

    I think it would be good if we were more like that, and less like we are now.
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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Quote Originally Posted by Osborne Russell View Post
    Many Democrats and Progressives didn't vote for Hillary Clinton against Trump.
    You have links to back that up - or just spouting the "I hate Bernie" mantra?
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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Quote Originally Posted by LeeG View Post
    Ya see, she doesn’t want to burn the country down so she should be president. How can you not agree to such a brilliant argument? It’s like believing Susan Collins.
    Kinda like Obama getting a Nobel Prize because he wasn't George Bush.

  32. #67
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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    The country needs Liz Cheny right now, and any other right wig conservatives who are willing to lead a charge against the Trump wing of the party. That won't ever come from the left. Only the Republicans themselves can fight back and retake their party.

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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Woodward View Post
    Only the Republicans themselves can fight back and retake their party.
    Retake it for whom or what ??

    . . . their former corporate oligarchic overlords ??

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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Quote Originally Posted by bamamick View Post
    You know the only thing that is going to unite this country.....we all know it, but no one wants to say it or have it happen.....is a war that affects all of us, not just the few who for whatever reason decide to serve, and their families. Without a major catastrophic event to slap us all upside the head and force us to understand that we have a hell of a lot more in common with one another rather than focus on our differences, I don't see a road back. Not at all.

    Mickey Lake
    I didn't want to say it either……...

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    Default Re: Robert Reich: Liz Chaney for President

    Quote Originally Posted by bamamick View Post
    You know the only thing that is going to unite this country.....we all know it, but no one wants to say it or have it happen.....is a war that affects all of us, not just the few who for whatever reason decide to serve, and their families. Without a major catastrophic event to slap us all upside the head and force us to understand that we have a hell of a lot more in common with one another rather than focus on our differences, I don't see a road back. Not at all.

    Mickey Lake
    How about a global pandemic of a deadly disease that spreads rapidly, threatens our elderly especially, has massive effects on trade and commerce, for which no vaccine exists, and...

    Oh. Nevermind...

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