Results 1 to 16 of 16

Thread: My argument against the electoral college.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    43,218

    Default My argument against the electoral college.

    House members are elected by people in their district.

    Senators are elected by the people in their state based on popular vote in that state, not which districts they carried.

    Presidential election ought be no different. One person/one vote; all votes being equal.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    11,725

    Default Re: My argument against the electoral college.

    You might recall the National Popular Vote Compact.
    Life is complex.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Topeka, KS
    Posts
    2,001

    Default Re: My argument against the electoral college.

    I think Historians will think the current Electoral College was a great aid to the Democrat Party succeeding in President Biden being installed. It did really give us a president with certainty and on time. Which is even more important in the age of instant nuclear war than it was when the Constitution was created. And I said before hand that the Bush v Gore precedent would not be followed. Instead state determinations were respected through the Electoral College. The Electoral College determination is designed to be Supreme Court proof. I would think the Democrat Party can really appreciate that now.

    Similarly, I think the calls to restructure the Supreme Court are pretty much blind to how much the Democrat Party's policies were advanced through the Warren Court era. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Court

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    81,808

    Default Re: My argument against the electoral college.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Smith View Post
    House members are elected by people in their district.

    Senators are elected by the people in their state based on popular vote in that state, not which districts they carried.

    Presidential election ought be no different. One person/one vote; all votes being equal.
    /

    Yes, there are perfectly legitimate reasons to wish for a change in that structure.

    But so what?

    Are you being paid by the Russians (Chinese/Koreans/Iranians?) to bring up legitimate issues that have no chance of being successfully addressed any time soon? To, iow, distract from the issues at hand...
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    2 states: NJ and confusion
    Posts
    43,218

    Default Re: My argument against the electoral college.

    I didn't say I expect it to change.

    I think we're witnessing the great experiment failing.
    "alternative facts (lies)" are a cancer eating through a democracy, and will kill it. 1st amendment is not absolute.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    40,776

    Default Re: My argument against the electoral college.

    If there was no electoral college and only the popular vote Gore would have won, Hillary would have won, and no republican would have won in over 30 years.
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    81,808

    Default Re: My argument against the electoral college.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe (SoCal) View Post
    If there was no electoral college and only the popular vote Gore would have won, Hillary would have won, and no republican would have won in over 30 years.
    It's always good to have a grasp of such realities. It can inform our thinking for the future. But right now, I say again, so what?
    David G
    Harbor Woodworks
    https://www.facebook.com/HarborWoodworks/

    "It was a Sunday morning and Goddard gave thanks that there were still places where one could worship in temples not made by human hands." -- L. F. Herreshoff (The Compleat Cruiser)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Valley of the Sun
    Posts
    117,167

    Default Re: My argument against the electoral college.

    Quote Originally Posted by Landrith View Post
    I think Historians will think the current Electoral College was a great aid to the Democrat Party succeeding in President Biden being installed. It did really give us a president with certainty and on time. Which is even more important in the age of instant nuclear war than it was when the Constitution was created. And I said before hand that the Bush v Gore precedent would not be followed. Instead state determinations were respected through the Electoral College. The Electoral College determination is designed to be Supreme Court proof. I would think the Democrat Party can really appreciate that now.

    Similarly, I think the calls to restructure the Supreme Court are pretty much blind to how much the Democrat Party's policies were advanced through the Warren Court era. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Court
    fart
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Adirondack Mts, New York State
    Posts
    1,549

    Default Re: My argument against the electoral college.

    Please name some countries that elect their president by popular vote. Like Russia.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    11,725

    Default Re: My argument against the electoral college.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Woodward View Post
    Please name some countries that elect their president by popular vote. Like Russia.
    Our government has massive structural issues. Including 3 bodies - House, Senate, and president, that have to agree to pass laws. There appears to be a conservative bias in that structure.

    Many democracies have a leader elected by the legislature. One might make an argument that in practice the leader represents the majority of voters. But more the leader represents the majority in the legislature.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...pretty-easily/ is an essay that may answer your question.
    Life is complex.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Adirondack Mts, New York State
    Posts
    1,549

    Default Re: My argument against the electoral college.

    ?. This is a question mark. It denotes a question.
    https://www.econlib.org/do-most-coun...majority-rule/
    [QUOTE]The other governments I know best–Canada, where I grew up, eh?, the United Kingdom, Australia, and New Zealand–don’t elect their Prime Minister by majority vote. They have a Parliamentary system and the party with the most seats gets to form the government. In a way, that’s like the Electoral College/QUOTE]

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Adirondack Mts, New York State
    Posts
    1,549

    Default Re: My argument against the electoral college.

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...racy-countries

    "Not all democracies are the same. A myriad of democratic sub-types exist, including constitutional democracy, green democracy, demarchy, illiberal democracy, industrial democracy, and more. In fact, one scholar identified more than 2000 different variations of democracy. What's more, the majority of these classifications overlap with one another. As a result, any given democracy will fit into many different subtypes."

    "For example, the United States is a representative democracy because most decisions are made not by the people themselves, but by representatives who act on the people's behalf. It is also an electoral democracy because those representatives are selected in elections, a presidential democracy because the head of government is also the head of state and leader of the executive branch, and a constitutional democracy because its fundamental principles and laws are guided by a constitution (which some argue makes the U.S. a republic rather than a democracy—more on that below)."

    "A direct democracy has no elected officials and no constitution. The people have absolute power and make all decisions themselves via direct votes. While this may seem like an ideal system at first glance, direct democracy has one significant shortcoming: The lack of a constitution laying out basic guiding principles means that whatever at least 50.1% of the people want is what happens. There are no checks, no balances, and no limits. As such, a direct democracy offers little to no protection for up to 49.9% of the people, and leaves minorities particularly vulnerable."

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    28,606

    Default Re: My argument against the electoral college.

    The electoral college, combined with the 3/5 compromise, was designed to give slave states an outsized influence in proportion to the number of voters. It worked until the Civil War, then worked for the entire Jim Crow era.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    victoria, australia. (1 address now)
    Posts
    70,198

    Default Re: My argument against the electoral college.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    The electoral college, combined with the 3/5 compromise, was designed to give slave states an outsized influence in proportion to the number of voters. It worked until the Civil War, then worked for the entire Jim Crow era.
    More or less what I was going to say. Designed so that the 'right' people would be elected president, not someone from the hoi polloi. Gaming of the districting and voting process is an attempt to preserve the bias.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Uki, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    35,194

    Default Re: My argument against the electoral college.

    Quote Originally Posted by Landrith View Post
    I think Historians will think the current Electoral College was a great aid to the Democrat Party succeeding in President Biden being installed. It did really give us a president with certainty and on time. Which is even more important in the age of instant nuclear war than it was when the Constitution was created. And I said before hand that the Bush v Gore precedent would not be followed. Instead state determinations were respected through the Electoral College. The Electoral College determination is designed to be Supreme Court proof. I would think the Democrat Party can really appreciate that now.

    Similarly, I think the calls to restructure the Supreme Court are pretty much blind to how much the Democrat Party's policies were advanced through the Warren Court era. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Court
    When the Electoral College chose Trump, didn't Hillary win the popular vote?
    I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned


  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Topeka, KS
    Posts
    2,001

    Default Re: My argument against the electoral college.

    Quote Originally Posted by WX View Post
    When the Electoral College chose Trump, didn't Hillary win the popular vote?
    It was disputed. But yes. The Electoral College is designed as JW stated in the constitution that states' allotted electoral representatives are counted and determine the winner. It is why many say the US is a Republic and not a Democracy.

    This started me thinking about what it would be like to live in lower population Red states if there wasn't an electoral college. Sort of as all the flyover states became a version of the Australian Outback. Starting with no more funding of the Interstate highway system, an idea The Supreme Allied Commander and Kansas President Dwight Eisenhower stole from Hiltler's Germany...Trains will be good enough for getting the resources out of our states, just like they were good enough for Her Majesty's governing of Canada...
    Last edited by Landrith; 06-28-2022 at 05:01 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •