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Thread: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

  1. #36
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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    In 2016 I didn’t want Hillary to get the nomination so I voted for Bernie in the primary, but when she became the Democratic nominee I voted for her in the general election.

    If you despised Trump and/or the GOP, but you decided to stay at home instead of voting for Hillary, then today is your day to be mighty proud of the principled stand you took. You got the government you deserved.

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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    It seems strange to base an abortion law on the right to privacy. Perhaps this shaky foundation is why Roe Vs Wade had been overturned?

    It also seems strange, to me anyway, to have a constitutional right to an abortion. I mean, it's an operation. Do you have a constitutional right to a colonoscopy as well?

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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Ah gee, “ill- considered”, them’s some harsh words Susan.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...LJUCBTG2IU44AY

    Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) called the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe v. Wade “ill-considered” and said it would lead to “political chaos” at a time when the country needs the opposite.
    “The Supreme Court has abandoned a fifty-year precedent at a time that the country is desperate for stability,” Collins said in a statement. “This ill-considered action will further divide the country at a moment when, more than ever in modern times, we need the Court to show both consistency and restraint.”
    “Throwing out a precedent overnight that the country has relied upon for half a century is not conservative,” she continued. “It is a sudden and radical jolt to the country that will lead to political chaos, anger, and a further loss of confidence in our government.”
    Collins’s votes to confirm President Donald Trump’s nominees to the Supreme Court were crucial to tilting the high court 6-to-3 in conservatives’ favor. At the time, she told reporters that Neil M. Gorsuch and Brett M. Kavanaugh had assured her Roe v. Wade was “settled as precedent.”

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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    This won’t divide the country.


    This will split the country.

    Jeff C
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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    It’ll keep lawyers busy. In the meantime a lot of women will be scrambling.

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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Sen. Collins was too dumb to know or find out what "settled precedent" means; or she was deceiving the public. Settled precedent can be overturned, duh. Otherwise the dead hand of past decisions would rule us forever, no matter how stupid. Ever hear of Dred Scott? Plessy v. Ferguson?

    Whether Roe was settled precedent was never the issue. I say she knew it. That makes her a liar. If she didn't, she was incompetent.

    Her duty now is to seek impeachment of those who gave her the worthless "assurances". Assurances are worthless if you can't enforce them. Impeachment is the means of enforcement.

    Of course she'll lose. But the public may be educated. Some future weasel may pause before he mentions "assurances" in connection with Supreme Court nominees, remembering how Sen. Collins was made to look a fool for it.
    Last edited by Osborne Russell; 06-24-2022 at 12:21 PM.
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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    No, it just makes her a weakling and a coward. She knew perfectly well that they were going to overturn Roe but didnt have the spine to stand up to the inevitable onslaught from Trump had she scuttled the nominations. She pretended that she believed them to mollify the left and voted for them to satisfy the right.

    I hope she is pleased with herself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lupussonic View Post
    It seems strange to base an abortion law on the right to privacy. Perhaps this shaky foundation is why Roe Vs Wade had been overturned?
    Roe was a crappy piece of jurisprudence from the get-go, for a number of reasons, not the least of which was that the socio-political process was at work. A couple of states had already legalized abortion via the legislative process. Other states were on the cusp of doing so. Roe short-circuited that organic process.

    Had Roe not been decided as it was, abortion would have likely been legalized most everywhere over the next several years, and opinion would have settled.

    Prior to Roe, one's stance on the issue of abortion was a continuum: one could be ambivalent about whether it should be legal or not. Roe polarized the possible stances on abortion. You was either against abortion or "for abortion" (not that anyone is 'for abortion'. They're for allowing women to make their own decisions).

    And then the right seized upon that as a wedge issue, which was instrumental in the merger of the christian Right and the Republican Party. And led to Reagan, Bush and Trump, and to divisive place in which we find ourselves today.

    The problem with overturning Roe is that a return to the status quo ante is impossible. The well has been poisoned by the last 50 years of GOP hate speech on the topic.

    Does anyone seriously think that there is a snowball's chance in Hell of, say, the Ohio legislature voting to legalize abortion now?
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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    NARAL, Planned Parenthood, who else to support?

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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Gotta hand it to the GOP to consider the parental rights of the rapist.

    Among this first wave, the antiabortion laws slated to take effect — the “trigger bans” — all work a little differently. Some will activate as soon as a designated state official certifies the court’s decision, which could happen within minutes, while others will go into effect 30 days after the decision is announced.

    While all of these laws make exceptions for the life of the mother, most do not include exceptions for rape and incest.

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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Donald Trump: the un-president. He undid environmental protections. He un-did diplomatic ties to nations around the world. He un-did respect for, trust in, American institutions. He un-did the expectation of civility among our leaders. He DID manage to pack SCOTUS with ideologues. And now, as a result, he has un-done reproductive rights.

    How many of you, like me, wonder how many abortions the ***sy-grabber has paid for?

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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Durnik View Post
    One more time people..

    The problem with the progressives and liberals right now is that they are still treating this situation like we are in a state of normalcy. - Malcolm Nance

    and the man OR loves to hate..

    It would be naive to depend on the Supreme Court to defend the rights of poor people, women, people of color, dissenters of all kinds. Those rights only come alive when citizens organize, protest, demonstrate, strike, boycott, rebel, and violate the law in order to uphold justice. - Howard Zinn

    (see - 'https://progressive.org/op-eds/howard-zinn-despair-supreme-court/')


    what just happened is what happens when True Blues feel they are so right that others have no choice but to vote their Faired Haired version of a Conservative. Dems, by their hubris, own this failure. But true to the call of hubris, they will continue to blame everyone but themselves.
    We got here because there were so many one-issue voters opposed abortion, and they were motivated to go to the polls. It still took them 50 years to politicize the courts enough to make this happen.

    On the liberal side, abortion was an issue, but not the issue. Plus, we had some people claiming there was no difference between the parties, which caused people to be complacent about the composition of the Supreme Court.

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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    I think it is more complex than that. Nearly 2 generations of arriving latino catholics have come across to live among us. Their interests do not aline with many here including supporting abortion rights and other more modern liberal life approaches. Florida and Texas are prime latino voting states and they tend to like conservative politics that serve them and many have lived under dictates from their leaders with authoritarian rule before coming citizens. We only have to look at recent Covid vaccine acceptance rates among them and other people of color to perceive the fine differences in attitudes.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 06-24-2022 at 01:33 PM.
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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    I think it is more complex than that. Nearly 2 generations of arriving latino catholics have come across to live among us. Their interests do not aline with many here who were here including supporting abortion rights. Florida and Texas are prime latino voting states and they tend to like conservative politics that serve them and many have lived under authoritarian rule before coming citizens.
    Yet ironically American women are going to Monterey Mexico for abortions. But I would expect the majority of Mexicans that are coming here are more conservative, less educated and more religious.
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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Welcome to living in a theocracy. It'll get worse.

    I can't begin to describe how pissed I am.
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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Just can’t understand the GOP wanting to stop abortions. They claim to be fiscally conservative. An abortion is much cheaper than the costs an unwanted child places on the taxpayer.
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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by willin woodworks View Post
    Clarence Thomas better hope they dont ban interracial marriage. Doesnt seem like much of stretch now.
    I wonder when the start jailing gay people and legalize lynching?
    He would like to revisit everything but that. https://www.wxyz.com/news/national/j...tion-decisions
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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Just can’t understand the GOP wanting to stop abortions. They claim to be fiscally conservative. An abortion is much cheaper than the costs an unwanted child places on the taxpayer.
    There are millions of church going born again and old school christians that will vote for a R just because they are Pro Life/Pro fetus. It cuts across every single other issue. It is whats allows them to beat Ds. It is what is going to get R to be in office next year. It is what delivered Trump in 2016 and what will make Ds 2024 struggle for a win for the highest office.
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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Just can’t understand the GOP wanting to stop abortions. They claim to be fiscally conservative. An abortion is much cheaper than the costs an unwanted child places on the taxpayer.
    Not all conservatives are fiscal conservative. Some are social conservatives. Though many social conservatives do not oppose abortion, most do oppose it after the first trimester or possibly as soon as there is a fetal heartbeat (about 6 weeks)

  20. #55
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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    There are millions of church going born again and old school christians that will vote for a R just because they are Pro Life/Pro fetus. It cuts across every single other issue. It is whats allows them to beat Ds. It is what is going to get R to be in office next year. It is what delivered Trump in 2016 and what will make Ds 2024 struggle for a win for the highest office.
    But will they vote for a D if the R’s don’t make this an issue?
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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Reynard38 View Post
    Just can’t understand the GOP wanting to stop abortions. They claim to be fiscally conservative. An abortion is much cheaper than the costs an unwanted child places on the taxpayer.
    They wanted the political leverage that came with the Christian Right. I seriously doubt abortion rates amongst women in Republican families is significantly different than others.

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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    There are millions of church going born again and old school christians that will vote for a R just because they are Pro Life/Pro fetus. It cuts across every single other issue. It is whats allows them to beat Ds. It is what is going to get R to be in office next year. It is what delivered Trump in 2016 and what will make Ds 2024 struggle for a win for the highest office.

    My Aunt has supported the GOP for the last 40 some years because of their pro-life stance. She is literally a one issue voter. Thankfully she is 80 and won't be voting in too many more elections.
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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Amy Coney Barret in confirmation hearing: "Cases [like Roe] are so well settled that no political actors and no people seriously push for their overruling."


    Neil Gorsuch in confirmation hearing: "Roe v. Wade...is a precedent of SCOTUS. It has been reaffirmed...A good judge will consider it as precedent."

    Brett Kavanaugh in confirmation hearing: "[Roe] is an important precedent... [Roe and Casey] have been reaffirmed many times. Casey is precedent on precedent."

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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Haberland View Post
    My Aunt has supported the GOP for the last 40 some years because of their pro-life stance. She is literally a one issue voter. Thankfully she is 80 and won't be voting in too many more elections.
    And this from Maxine:

    Rep. Maxine Waters, D-Calif., pledged to defy and protest the Supreme Court following its decision Friday overturning Roe v. Wade.
    "You ain't seen nothing yet," Waters said from the steps of the court. "Women are going to control their bodies no matter how they try and stop us. The hell with the Supreme Court. We will defy them. Women will be in control of their bodies. And if they think Black women are intimidated or afraid, they got another thought coming."
    Since she is from California, and since the decision still puts the legality of abortions into the the hands of individual states, there is no impact to the women of California. The decision did not make abortions illegal, it simply left each state to decide. Though some will undoubtedly abolish it except for extreme situations, most will have it available and many will have pretty liberal adoption practices. European abortion laws are far more restrictive than those in the US.

    I think that if your opinion is that abortion should be legal and easily available from conception to the point of livebirth, then this is definitely a setback. But 78% occur before the 9th week and 91% of abortions occur in the first trimester. If it isn't available in yoiur state it probably will be in the one next door.

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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    And this from Maxine:



    Since she is from California, and since the decision still puts the legality of abortions into the the hands of individual states, there is no impact to the women of California. The decision did not make abortions illegal, it simply left each state to decide. Though some will undoubtedly abolish it except for extreme situations, most will have it available and many will have pretty liberal adoption practices. European abortion laws are far more restrictive than those in the US.

    I think that if your opinion is that abortion should be legal and easily available from conception to the point of livebirth, then this is definitely a setback. But 78% occur before the 9th week and 91% of abortions occur in the first trimester. If it isn't available in yoiur state it probably will be in the one next door.
    Sure, if you needed a time dependent medical procedure and it was available 400 miles away that’s no more a burden than if it was 20 miles away. Or if you were raped in a state with no exemption for rape or incest it’s no big deal to have to travel a couple days to get an abortion. Everyone has the time and money for that. Besides does it really affect you?

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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    Not all conservatives are fiscal conservative. Some are social conservatives. Though many social conservatives do not oppose abortion, most do oppose it after the first trimester or possibly as soon as there is a fetal heartbeat (about 6 weeks)
    How many women even know they are pregnant at 6 weeks? My best friend’s daughter just had a baby last month. I don’t think she knew at six weeks…

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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Maxine Waters needs to STFU about "defying" the Supreme Court.
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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Haberland View Post
    My Aunt has supported the GOP for the last 40 some years because of their pro-life stance. She is literally a one issue voter. Thankfully she is 80 and won't be voting in too many more elections.
    Nor too likely to ever need an abortion herself either. Pity her grand-nieces or whatever the appellation is for 2nd or 3rd generation of women in her family down the line from her.
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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Boatbum View Post
    ...If it isn't available in yoiur state it probably will be in the one next door.
    Until the US Taliban makes it illegal to go out of state to get one.

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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by Art Haberland View Post
    He would like to revisit everything but that. https://www.wxyz.com/news/national/j...tion-decisions
    "Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas would like to see the court revisit decisions that legalized same-sex marriage, contraception and sex acts between consenting adults".

    OMG, I didn't realise A Handmaids Tale was reality TV. Do I have it right, these SC positions are held for life?

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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Mr. Carey has what seems to me to be an excellent analysis. Roe also short circuited any sort of rational debate about when an abortion became unethical, which might have been the basis for compromise.
    One consequence of this is that states outlawing abortion are going to see a rise in the number of people on welfare, and, a generation down the road a smaller percentage of residents suited for good jobs. Those residents will pay fewer taxes, and require more services.

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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by epoxyboy View Post
    "Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas would like to see the court revisit decisions that legalized same-sex marriage, contraception and sex acts between consenting adults".

    OMG, I didn't realise A Handmaids Tale was reality TV. Do I have it right, these SC positions are held for life?

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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Maybe some of the apathy will be washed off and people will actually go out and vote...

    It will be interesting to see how this impacts the midterms (I think it will)

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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Maybe I'm being dumb here, but you elect people to represent you, and yet the SC are unelected, lifetime positions that can change your laws?

    Even in our non-written constitution, our HoLs can't call the shots.

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    Default Re: It's official - the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

    Quote Originally Posted by AndyG View Post
    Maybe I'm being dumb here, but you elect people to represent you, and yet the SC are unelected, lifetime positions that can change your laws?

    Even in our non-written constitution, our HoLs can't call the shots.

    Andy
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