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Thread: crummy shingle design ruining my day

  1. #1
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    Default crummy shingle design ruining my day

    finally have the long stretch of dry weather i needed to continue my porch roofing project.

    so i pulled back the blue tarp and got back at it.

    decided to remove a few courses of shingles above the low-pitch union of porch and house, to run ice and water shield up at least 30" under the 4/12 house roofing.

    lo and behold, i have discovered that the design of the shingles on the house does not lend itself to a partial removal.

    unlike your normal 3 tab asphalt shingle, these are built of two strips, overlapped and glued together. in disturbing the shingles, i have found that the little overlapping tabs sometimes partially or completely let go, like this:

    A4A50494-D88D-4DC1-8BE9-4D6D7E239112.jpg

    the meaningful overlap of these shingles, rather than being 6" or so, is about 1", where the two strips are poorly glued together.

    9A5EAA45-44F8-4AB8-B53E-8A92A176922E.jpg

    somebody needs to get sued, and then horsewhipped for this nonsense.

    i have discovered that they are owens corning oakridge, carried by the orange box store. mine were manufactured and installed in 2016.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    Shame they aren’t older. Cover it all up with a new batch?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    The "Ah Ha" moment came when you mentioned the orange box store.
    They are known to buy from major brand names, but have that brand name produce
    products that are inferior to those produced for reputable suppliers, simply to offer a cheaper price.
    I've run it to this with Bostitch, John Deere, and others.
    Perhaps if you had bought from a reputable supplier of roofing products, you'd be happier than you are today.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
    Skiing is the next best thing to having wings.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    Atre you prying up under the whole shingle or the tab parts, i dont see this much escept in old shingles, seems like a bad patch, i have secured new shingles by contacting the supplier,

  5. #5
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    i didn't buy or install them, rich. but thanks for the pickmeup rich!

    we've gone from too wet and cool to too hot in just a few days. can't keep going today, i am sticking to everything i step on.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    i carefully pried under the whole shingle. in the morning hours before they heated up too much.

    only a few of them came unglued. but they come apart awful easy.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    I really dislike " Architectural Shingles"
    It's an affectation designed to hide inferior workmanship on the actual roof.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    I'm glad someone else is crawling around on their knees on a roof. I was gutter cleaning man for a week on and off between the rain, and that was enough for me. Our gutters are covered in a screwed down mesh leaf guard, its a freaking mission. An elevated mission including tractor scaffolding. safety first.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    Just took off the gutters I installed in 95. Sort of a relief.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    Quote Originally Posted by John B View Post
    I'm glad someone else is crawling around on their knees on a roof. I was gutter cleaning man for a week on and off between the rain, and that was enough for me. Our gutters are covered in a screwed down mesh leaf guard, its a freaking mission. An elevated mission including tractor scaffolding. safety first.
    There must be pics of this operation. Maybe on another thread?

  11. #11
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    There might be....but I might get arrested for wanton common sense and fractional risk.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    In a moment of absolute brain-defect, I waited until noon to clean my gutters last weekend. Still nursing the 1st-degree burn on the heel of my hand.

    IIRC the shingles in the OP are the lower-warranty (15-25yr?) grade, the 30+ year warrantied shingles have another whole layer.
    What color are their hands now?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    Just curious - who/where is a 'reputable shingle source'? Around here, it's big-box as far as the eye can see.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  14. #14
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    Another aside - had a home builder/friend tell me to not 'stack' one set of shingles over the old; makes the roof more susceptible to hail damage. True?
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  15. #15
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    George, in your area you may have ( I don't know this from personal experience ) such places as : Menard's, Lowe's, Home Depot, possibly Mill's Fleet Farm - - each MAY have a different quality of product , which calls for onsite product review and evaluation ( at least that's what I tell 'the Admiral )


    Rick
    Charter Member - - Professional Procrastinators Association of America - - putting things off since 1965 " I'll get around to it tomorrow, .... maybe "

  16. #16
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    Quote Originally Posted by George Jung View Post
    Just curious - who/where is a 'reputable shingle source'? Around here, it's big-box as far as the eye can see.
    George, a building supply/ materials place.

    Google maps shows about a dozen in your great state.

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  17. #17
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    Put on a metal roof 20+ years ago. No issues. No maintenance. No fuss.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    I'd like a copper one - and 'distressed', so when it hails, it's considered an up-grade.
    There's a lot of things they didn't tell me when I signed on with this outfit....

  19. #19
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    i didn't buy or install them, rich. but thanks for the pickmeup rich!

    we've gone from too wet and cool to too hot in just a few days. can't keep going today, i am sticking to everything i step on.
    Sorry about that... didn't mean to be a Debbie-downer.

    I had my roof replaced 11 years ago with shingles purchased from the local building supply yard. Last year I had a skylight installed. The roofer was able to take up those 11 year old shingles with no problem and reuse them.

    Note to all those here: Never, ever hire a contractor who buys his materials at a big box store. More often then not, they are far inferior than those bought at a building supply store.
    I was born on a wooden boat that I built myself.
    Skiing is the next best thing to having wings.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    after stewing on it, decided to proceed as planned, fix any loose shingles with adhesive in a caulking gun as needed.

    but as i started working my ice and water shield up under the first row of shingles and underlayment, a couple more shingles in he same area fell apart. i think our resident pro roofer has it, there was a batch of defective shingles installed on my roof. on close inspection i find that most of the shingles have considerably more adhesive.

    439AE339-4B22-4EDF-9FC9-C015C154C27B.jpg

    considering that the overlap of the synthetic underlayment is under the defective shingles (you can see the blue line of the overlap), removing at least another course makes sense anyway. i have done so and things are looking better, i am my usual chipper self again.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    I'm not aware of or have ever noticed a system like that being used here( more likely). There are plenty of tile systems, the classic being a formed/pressed steel with a gravel finish ,but most houses would be a long run formed sheet of steel or alloy.
    There are the usual butanol roof coverings involving tar and torch... reminds me of one of the largest building projects in our city a couple of years ago. The Convention centre project was coming close to completion, a roofer in some corner of an annex or something left his torch running when he popped off for smoko and burnt the whole thing down. Billions.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    i carefully pried under the whole shingle. in the morning hours before they heated up too much.

    only a few of them came unglued. but they come apart awful easy.
    .

    I have around 5 square in the boneyard i used to patch, i move them around a bit, only a few break apart like that and they have been in the yard for years. I am not aware home depot sells different ones then the lumber yard. My plumber says never to buy fixtures there as they are inferior to what the plumber gets but so far i have not verified this.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    The place to get roofing supplies is ABC

    https://www.abcsupply.com/locations/

  24. #24
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    after stewing on it, decided to proceed as planned, fix any loose shingles with adhesive in a caulking gun as needed.

    but as i started working my ice and water shield up under the first row of shingles and underlayment, a couple more shingles in he same area fell apart. i think our resident pro roofer has it, there was a batch of defective shingles installed on my roof. on close inspection i find that most of the shingles have considerably more adhesive.

    439AE339-4B22-4EDF-9FC9-C015C154C27B.jpg

    considering that the overlap of the synthetic underlayment is under the defective shingles (you can see the blue line of the overlap), removing at least another course makes sense anyway. i have done so and things are looking better, i am my usual chipper self again.
    so glad to be sitting on a couch in mystic with steven bauer and norman bernstien and lew barret and rob of the amish drinking rum and. . .
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    so glad to be sitting on a couch in mystic with steven bauer and norman bernstien and lew barret and rob of the amish drinking rum and. . .
    Say High! for me...

  26. #26
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    Best wishes to you all.
    I once thought I was wrong, but I was wrong, I wasn't wrong.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    so glad to be sitting on a couch in mystic with steven bauer and norman bernstien and lew barret and rob of the amish drinking rum and. . .
    that sounds okay, but i have brought to fruition a genius scheme in which, should i be away from this place for more than three hours at a time, a legion of animals and plants start to die. it's really great to feel needed.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Pless View Post
    so glad to be sitting on a couch in mystic with steven bauer and norman bernstien and lew barret and rob of the amish drinking rum and. . .
    Damn…..
    Wish I wasn’t missing that one.
    Tom

  29. #29
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    That just looks like an exercise in misery! Good luck :-/
    Shingled roofs are pretty uncommon "down under", mostly only found on architectural "look at me" houses built in the last four years or so - it's a "new" product here.
    Between not being fire resistant, and not contributing anything to structural bracing (bushfires/earthquakes Aus/NZ), I'm picking shingles won't replace long-run steel as the go-to roofing material any time soon.

    Pete
    The Ignore feature, lowering blood pressure since 1862. Ahhhhhhh.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    my ideal plan for house and porch roof would have been to strip the shingles, straighten the 55 year-old framing, install radiant barrier rigid insulation, purlins and steel over the whole thing.

    where's that guy handing out the money. some extra time would be nice, too.

  31. #31
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    Put on a metal roof 20+ years ago. No issues. No maintenance. No fuss.
    Way to go if you have 20 or more years to live in that house, at that point the ROI will be there.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    Let’s see. 1995 it was $5,500. Feeling ok about it.

    Old days, poor people had metal and rich had shingles.

  33. #33
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    Quote Originally Posted by woodpile View Post
    Way to go if you have 20 or more years to live in that house, at that point the ROI will be there.
    Is a shingled roof actually that much cheaper than steel - it would have to be massively lower cost, but I'm just just not seeing it.
    Compared with steel, shingles look far more labour intensive to do in the first place, have to go over some sort of underlay (plywood?) that isn't needed for steel - so even more labour and materials, and seem to need more maintenance over the short lifetime they have The local outfit pushing them was claiming a thirty year life. That's twenty years short of code here, so I'm not sure how they are even allowed to sell them.
    Our house is over fifty years old, original roof is still on it. We've been here since '98, so on shingled roof math we'd have replaced it once already if those numbers are correct. I'm not looking at replacement any time soon either. That's concrete tile, not steel, but FWIW a steel roof would be in even better shape although to be fair, the tile has had zero maintenance over its entire lifetime. Nothing, nada, zip.
    What was that about ROI?

    Pete
    The Ignore feature, lowering blood pressure since 1862. Ahhhhhhh.

  34. #34
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    The place to get roofing supplies is ABC

    https://www.abcsupply.com/locations/
    Didn't Julie Andrews sing a song about them?

    As JB and Pete mention, bitumous shingles are almost never used here. Corrugated steel has been used here forever, along with cement or terracotta tiles. I wonder why shingles are preferred in the US? I doubt that it's just cost as shingles would need more support. I know US and Canadian houses are pretty much sealed with insulation membranes.
    Last edited by RFNK; 06-25-2022 at 07:27 PM.
    Rick

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  35. #35
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    Default Re: crummy shingle design ruining my day

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    that sounds okay, but i have brought to fruition a genius scheme in which, should i be away from this place for more than three hours at a time, a legion of animals and plants start to die. it's really great to feel needed.
    More efficient here. I achieved that form of anchorage with just one little dog!
    Rick

    Lean and nosey like a ferret

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