Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 36 to 50 of 50

Thread: Shipping a cool small boat in a container to Europe

  1. #36
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NorCAL
    Posts
    20,097

    Default Re: Shipping a cool small boat in a container to Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumars View Post
    The boat enters the EU under a temporary admission regime valid 18 months (period of discharge). This TAR is automatic (oral declaration) and resets every time you enter the EU, so all you need to do is a "visa run" to a non-EU country, there is no minimum time requirement to be spent outside the EU. It is advisable to get a written confirmation of boat entry from customs using formular 71-01 (supporting document for oral declaration). Otherwise you will be required to produce proof of the boat exiting the EU like a marina receipt. Very important, in order to be able to benefit from TAR the boat must have a valid registration and insurance.
    If you fail to remove the boat from EU customs territory during the period of discharge you are liable for criminal smuggling. In order to sell the boat in the customs territory it must be first formally imported into the EU, otherwise criminal smuggling again. Importing involves CE conformity (post construction assessment acording to RCD), 25% tariff on value (based on bill of sale or assessment), and VAT (on value+transport+tarrif).

    Land motor vehicles can enter the EU customs union under a similar regime only more restrictive, only 6 months and the owner must always be present.
    That is not exactly true although the rules are made that way. I and many, many others do not have to do that with out of EU registered recreational cruising boats and motor vehicles. There is no way enforcement can happen because there is no way to track them.

    I have now kept my California motorcycle in Germany for 5 years. I have ridden it it 7 times over those 5 years there through 8 countries (some not EU), crossing borders several times in a day. I will be in Europe to ride it in a month, I do not pay tariffs or fees, i do not need to pass customs and I do not ask officials exemption. The law enforcement over the 23,000 miles I have ridden I have met only like to take photos sitting of themselves on my cool old bike. Most just give me a thumbs up. I have reason to believe they will do the same with a cool sail boat with a motor under 20 feet that is used less than 3 months a year.
    Without friends none of this is possible.

  2. #37
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    UK. Cornwall, Suffolk.
    Posts
    9,107

    Default Re: Shipping a cool small boat in a container to Europe

    Strictly speaking Ted, you re-imported your bike back to whence it came

  3. #38
    Join Date
    May 2022
    Location
    sweden
    Posts
    120

    Default Re: Shipping a cool small boat in a container to Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    That is not exactly true although the rules are made that way. I and many, many others do not have to do that with out of EU registered recreational cruising boats and motor vehicles. There is no way enforcement can happen because there is no way to track them. I have reason to believe they will do the same with a cool sail boat with a motor under 20 feet that is used less than 3 months a year.
    You are getting good solid advice here that you seem to want to ignore.

    Flashing an insurance document is fine until someone askes for the import documents, then you discover your US rules do not apply to a motorcycle, or boat, that has been in the EU for more than 12 months. Meaning your insurance is invalid. Using a motor vehicle in most parts of the EU with no insurance is a criminal offense, meaning jail time, not just a fine.

    Your "there is no way of enforcement" is a hope, and not a good reason to be breaking the law. There are many vehicles and boats impounded, crushed or auctioned off every year due to non compliance, believing otherwise is wishfull thinking on your part.

    If your bike was imported for "temporary/ tour/ leisure" purposes over 7 years ago, you are not "just passing through". It only takes one small accident which may not be your fault, and you may find yourself phoning your embassy from a holding cell.

    "I have reason to believe..." What have you read that gives you that notion? My understanding from reading the relevant documents and from a French delivery skipper I know, is that many foreign cuisers go to Gibraltar, Cyprus or Turkey for a time before re-entering the EU for another 12 months. If you intend to leave a boat in France, it needs to be imported and it does need to meet RCD unless it is a design that pre-dates 1950, and all the relevant taxes and import duty that others have mentioned.

    A friend in Sweden is relocating to France, she has to re-register her car, trailer and boat within 12 months, and have them inspected for road use and insurance and that is going from one EU country to another.

    Can you show the documents that may explain why you believe you are exempt?. When a customs or police officer asks you for your importation document, what would you show them?

  4. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Deepest Darkest Wales
    Posts
    24,910

    Default Re: Shipping a cool small boat in a container to Europe

    You can go a surprisingly long way on optimism and luck... but when the luck runs out it can turn real ugly.
    I'd much rather lay in my bunk all freakin day lookin at Youtube videos .

  5. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NorCAL
    Posts
    20,097

    Default Re: Shipping a cool small boat in a container to Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Vadim 68 View Post
    You are getting good solid advice here that you seem to want to ignore.

    Flashing an insurance document is fine until someone askes for the import documents, then you discover your US rules do not apply to a motorcycle, or boat, that has been in the EU for more than 12 months. Meaning your insurance is invalid. Using a motor vehicle in most parts of the EU with no insurance is a criminal offense, meaning jail time, not just a fine.

    Your "there is no way of enforcement" is a hope, and not a good reason to be breaking the law. There are many vehicles and boats impounded, crushed or auctioned off every year due to non compliance, believing otherwise is wishfull thinking on your part.

    If your bike was imported for "temporary/ tour/ leisure" purposes over 7 years ago, you are not "just passing through". It only takes one small accident which may not be your fault, and you may find yourself phoning your embassy from a holding cell.

    "I have reason to believe..." What have you read that gives you that notion? My understanding from reading the relevant documents and from a French delivery skipper I know, is that many foreign cuisers go to Gibraltar, Cyprus or Turkey for a time before re-entering the EU for another 12 months. If you intend to leave a boat in France, it needs to be imported and it does need to meet RCD unless it is a design that pre-dates 1950, and all the relevant taxes and import duty that others have mentioned.

    A friend in Sweden is relocating to France, she has to re-register her car, trailer and boat within 12 months, and have them inspected for road use and insurance and that is going from one EU country to another.

    Can you show the documents that may explain why you believe you are exempt?. When a customs or police officer asks you for your importation document, what would you show them?
    Luck has nothing to do with this. And you are pretending to know about something you do not know about. I have explored this with my bike and spoken to European attornies about this. I have been assured what I am doing is legal and above board. Too many are worried about what if. for the most part, people trying to be law abiding and respectful never get in trouble. If there was a problem i would surrender the item and continue on by bicycle. To be sure I am not afraid of what they will do to me. Most will support what I am doing as they would love to do it themselves. This is the boat adventure not a worry fest about what the man can do to me.

    I know it is mind blowing to those there. What i am doing is legal. I am not a European, I am not importing anything into the EU but only passing through very slowly. I have a legal right to pass through by international law and convention, there are EU laws regarding tourists and those passing through on boat and cars and bikes to be sure. Since I am not planning relocating these items but used for personal transportation through the area that are fully insured there is not a big deal. As you know speed of my journey is slow, i come and go through many jurisdictions between Eu and other countries . I have no real intention of remaining and my registration is only valid in the place where it is belongs.

    It is a loophole that a small guys can use (too many folks are too afraid to not be in control of their personal vehicles and vessels), that isn't causing damage to the economy, have been bonded and is spending real money there. It is a win for everyone. Moreover I know many people from europe who have done the same in the US. As many point out, it is easier to rent there or here but it is more expensive if the adventures is in years.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 06-24-2022 at 04:48 PM.
    Without friends none of this is possible.

  6. #41
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    1,195

    Default Re: Shipping a cool small boat in a container to Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Hoppe View Post
    That is not exactly true although the rules are made that way. I and many, many others do not have to do that with out of EU registered recreational cruising boats and motor vehicles. There is no way enforcement can happen because there is no way to track them.

    I have now kept my California motorcycle in Germany for 5 years. I have ridden it it 7 times over those 5 years there through 8 countries (some not EU), crossing borders several times in a day. I will be in Europe to ride it in a month, I do not pay tariffs or fees, i do not need to pass customs and I do not ask officials exemption. The law enforcement over the 23,000 miles I have ridden I have met only like to take photos sitting of themselves on my cool old bike. Most just give me a thumbs up. I have reason to believe they will do the same with a cool sail boat with a motor under 20 feet that is used less than 3 months a year.
    You were simply lucky, that's all. Of course it's not my business to tell you how to play your odds, so I won't.
    Just be advised that EU customs law functions on the premise of "guilty until you prove innocence" (impoundment is discretionary and decided by the agent on the ground) not the other way around. Whatever attorney told you it's legal, well, I hope you never have to call them.

    Anyway, your biggest problem will be insurance. American companies will be expensive (Italy has the highest minimums) and I am told it's becoming more difficult for americans to obtain coverage from EU companies.
    Last edited by Rumars; 06-24-2022 at 05:08 PM.

  7. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Dorset, UK
    Posts
    1,818

    Default Re: Shipping a cool small boat in a container to Europe

    I thought I might take my dinghy to France for the odd festival. I bought it on condition that I would be given the RCD pass certificate and VAT paid receipt when purchased, which I did get. I know I'd have to show them travelling to France from the UK. As well as a likely check on the trailer (it's older than the RCD directive on trailers thankfully) and likely VAT paid receipt on an outboard. I'd double check I had all the correct car breakdown gear - fluro jacket etc. The French police are utter *unts, and wait for an easy target to find something out of order to their rules, and are looking for a quick frog march to the local cashpoint for an immediate cash fine. They are notorious, especially around the ports.

    Ted, it's very very unlikely you'll get a trailer boat out of the customs compound without import and VAT paid. It's too easy to try and sell on (not that you'll be able to easily). The temp waver is for round the word yacht people, not trailer sailers imported from the USA. Customs people, there's no arguing with them. They make a decision and its final. You pay or its not released from the compound and you'll have to pay storage or immediately send it home.

    Turn up to any port in the EU and if the harbour master thinks you're not VAT paid, he'll want to see a certificate. People carry all this stuff with them and have to show it, like their passports. They'll even be checking your fuel is tax paid, want to see the receipt, and not heating/ agricultural stuff without the tax paid.

    If you come to the EU, I'd assume you'll have to pay duties' and if you don't well, you got lucky, but you can be checked anywhere and told to pay, there and then. Certification can and does get checked outside when travelling. Especially France. I'd go nowhere near France without a folder full of paperwork. They are really into the officialdom of stuff. Foreigner, boat, trailer, fuel: it's a potential bonanza for fines. You're just what they're looking for. It's opposite to the UK. Think mini gestapo officer with a significance issues and inferiority complex. That's the French police. Unfortunately they're not a reflection of lovely French people.
    Last edited by Edward Pearson; 06-24-2022 at 05:12 PM.

  8. #43
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NorCAL
    Posts
    20,097

    Default Re: Shipping a cool small boat in a container to Europe

    My feeling is take the boat if they are compelled. Who cares. There are hundred ways to get the boat in. An american flagged vessel will get a different treatment than you euros get. It is only money.

    If it is such a pain in the butt - i will get a boat there and donate it when I am done.

    As far as my motorcycle - there is not a chance they are taking the bike. There are thousands of motorcycles in Europe that ride with foreign plates. You just haven't been looking for them. If it is time to take the bike home, I will.

    I know I sound cavaliere about this. I have to be to pull it off. There will always be hurdles to this dream as there are with everything else.

    I am reminded how many support the rebuilding of Tally Ho, he is a brit on a tourist visa that is operatizing a business (not a nonprofit) and restoring a boat you all love to support. by all rights he should not be able to do this and yet he does. and you love every moment he has. It is his dream. I would have thought many of you would have wanted to support me too in my dream.
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 06-24-2022 at 05:10 PM.
    Without friends none of this is possible.

  9. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    9,964

    Default Re: Shipping a cool small boat in a container to Europe

    What’s the best month to sail it across? Let’s do this.

  10. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NorCAL
    Posts
    20,097

    Default Re: Shipping a cool small boat in a container to Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by bluedog225 View Post
    What’s the best month to sail it across? Let’s do this.
    Let's do May. I will ship Pretty Penny to Miami in January.



    or do you want to sail my other boat Lively Lady there, I will repower to go all electric.



    or both as a sister fleet?
    Last edited by Ted Hoppe; 06-24-2022 at 05:26 PM.
    Without friends none of this is possible.

  11. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NorCAL
    Posts
    20,097

    Default Re: Shipping a cool small boat in a container to Europe

    I still like one like this though to do rivers and canals...

    Without friends none of this is possible.

  12. #47
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    9,964

    Default Re: Shipping a cool small boat in a container to Europe


  13. #48
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    EU
    Posts
    1,195

    Default Re: Shipping a cool small boat in a container to Europe

    Ted, I wrote all those things to make it easier for you. Just take the boat across the channel for fish and chips every second year and get a new formular when you re-enter France, that's it. Costs a ferry ride and renting a car plus trailer for a day. When you're done simply ship the boat back. Insurance is just a matter of how much you are willing to pay, there will always be someone to cover you.

    The motorcycle is another thing, you take your chances however you wish, that's not my business. There is no legal loophole you can slip trough, if you ever get caught you will be lucky if you just pay trough the nose and there are no criminal charges.

  14. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NorCAL
    Posts
    20,097

    Default Re: Shipping a cool small boat in a container to Europe

    thanks. I know you all mean well. I have long been envious of those photos and stories here and in the magazines about your thin water cruising grounds, canals and long summer days. If I get a boat there I promise that I will letmost you use the boat freelyas you would want, it would be in excellent shape and with the only condition you use it safely and with full sense of happiness and joy.

    I have been using this thread as a way not to think about a brilliant sailing older friend who was hit on his bicycle and seriously injured yesterday. The doctors are taking him off life support at 6. Life is short. He lived larger than life. I too would rather spend my best days doing something great, in pursuit of adventure and among friends. Thanks for letting me escape the seriousness that happens in really life and dream about things we really would like to do.
    Without friends none of this is possible.

  15. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    9,964

    Default Re: Shipping a cool small boat in a container to Europe

    Sorry Ted. Take care of yourself.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •