Page 1 of 9 12 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 35 of 305

Thread: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cantão - Brazil
    Posts
    16,640

    Default Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    I tell a RWW that humans evolved from monkeys, and they hate me for it and claim it is unproven.

    I tell a LWW that humans, having evolved from monkeys, display many of the same basic instincts, and they hate me for it and claim it is unproven.

    Is it because science punctures ideologies with equal neutrality? The right, I think, hates evolution mostly as a way to discredit science where it matters, like climate change. The left particularly hates evolutionary psychology, because it shows how futile are their modern versions of the "new Soviet man" dream. They also hate genetics, for similar reasons.

    The right worships God, and the left worships Man. Science has unpleasant truths to tell about both.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Farmington, Oregon
    Posts
    19,985

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    ah, nice. more intellectual onanism.

    first rule of science, if you can't show your work, you're not doing it.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    58,075

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    ^
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    61,520

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    The 'blank slate' is surprisingly persistent, even among those who really ought to know better.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Farmington, Oregon
    Posts
    19,985

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    The 'blank slate' is surprisingly persistent, even among those who really ought to know better.
    your characterization is unearned. just like george's self congratulation.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    61,520

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Damn, Mr Baxter, who peed in your coffee? Some of us suggest that an aversion to gay sex might be hard-wired among straight folks, and you have a fit. I suggest you reserve your ire for fundamentalists and those who actually want to treat gay people badly.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 06-18-2022 at 10:57 AM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Farmington, Oregon
    Posts
    19,985

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    people saying ugly things, and projecting ugly things on others, claiming to be in the service of truth, are frequently just propagating ugliness.

    for whatever reason they may have.

    you guys drawing a dividing line between your emotional and intellectual state are fooling yourselves. talk about your "blank slate" fallacy. you think your intellect is somehow seperable from the emotions you indulge?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Entry Level
    Posts
    25,083

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Homocentrism. Reason can be applied to anything, including man himself, and if one forbids that, reason demands that one have a reason. The reason for the forbidding of reason being turned on man is that to do so threatens a priori assumptions, ideologies, religions, etc. which are the basis of one's identity. A challenge to one's identity is a threat. You might as well chop off someone's arm as chop off part of their identity. They hate reason itself, not just science, because it threatens the integrity of the organism even if it's "only" a threat to individual psychology. It's perceived as a threat to the organism. Causes pain and alarm, which grows into hate. One found comfort in one's fellow believers, and now is obliged to reject that, and very likely pay a heavy social price; then find a replacement comfort either in a new group of fellow believers -- surely not those whom one has spent a lifetime learnint to regard as the enemy -- or who knows where, or how, or what. The entire understanding of one's being, and whatever security it can give, is yanked out from under.

    Evolution surely stands first among the "outrages upon our naive self love" that Freud identified as the cachet of all truly great scientific revolutions. I don't mean to downplay the mental adjusment required by the two other revolutions that Freud specified as paramount: changing our abode from the immobile center of a limited universe to a small peripheral hunk of rock subordinate to one star among billions, and altering our view of mind from a logical and moral instrument to a largely nonrational device buffeted or controlled by an "unconscious." Still, no demotion of hope can quite match the cancellation of our "particular privilege of having been specially created" (in God's image, no less) and our consequent "relegation to descent from the animal world."

    Evolution therefore entered Western consciousness as the most threatening of all new ideas to our most fundamental social assumption and psychological hope for human uniqueness and centrality.

    Stephen Jay Gould, "The Power of This View of Life", Natural History July 1994.
    I'm not leaving.

    -- Mike Pence

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Farmington, Oregon
    Posts
    19,985

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    Damn, Mr Baxter, who peed in your coffee? Some of us suggest that an aversion to gay sex might be hard-wired among strait folks, and you have a fit. I suggest you reserve your ire for fundamentalists and those who actually want to treat gay people badly.
    that's not what you suggested. you do love to shade and water down.

    but whatever. your classification "strait folks" is, itself, part of the moral fabric you've been raised in. a moral fabric that drives you emotionally, that is the very ground of sexual bigotry.

    human sexuality is way bigger, more fluid, more complex, and more interesting than you and i were shamed into believing, and feeling.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    61,520

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    As I said, I have a fairly strong aversion to eating beets. It appears to be hard-wired, not learned. I don't hate beets, I don't think they should be banned, I haven't the slightest objection to anyone else eating beets, I'm not going to make 'beets are an abomination' a tenet of my religion, and I think anyone who feels similarly but does these things is at best dead wrong. You appear to be engaged in a mighty struggle to the death with a straw man of your own creation.

    No, sexual attraction is not only binary, not just 'gay' and 'straight', not even close. Yet a large majority of human beings really are attracted almost entirely to those with a different set of chromosomes; this is not a social construct, but an objective fact, which is true in every culture and time.
    Last edited by Keith Wilson; 06-18-2022 at 11:06 AM.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Kitty Hawk, NC
    Posts
    11,725

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    I tell a RWW that humans evolved from monkeys, and they hate me for it and claim it is unproven.

    I tell a LWW that humans, having evolved from monkeys, display many of the same basic instincts, and they hate me for it and claim it is unproven.

    Is it because science punctures ideologies with equal neutrality? The right, I think, hates evolution mostly as a way to discredit science where it matters, like climate change. The left particularly hates evolutionary psychology, because it shows how futile are their modern versions of the "new Soviet man" dream. They also hate genetics, for similar reasons.

    The right worships God, and the left worships Man. Science has unpleasant truths to tell about both.
    I believe in science.

    Science has produced pretty good computer programs that can out think most of us.

    Science has produced artificial organs. And really nasty viruses.

    I can imagine a god like civilization that could produce humans from whole cloth as it were. I might even start with monkeys or other similar projects. But I will let the user select the path.

    I can imagine science sending a ship into space with sufficient materials to create life by whatever means chosen.

    god, magic, science. Same side of the coin. You claim science. I claim god. Or magic.
    Life is complex.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Farmington, Oregon
    Posts
    19,985

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    As I said, I have a fairly strong aversion to eating beets. It appears to be hard-wired, not learned. I don't hate beets, I don't think they should be banned, I haven't the slightest objection to anyone else eating beets, I'm not going to make 'beets are an abomination' a tenet of my religion, and I think anyone who feels similarly but does these things is at best dead wrong. You appear to be engaged in a mighty struggle to the death with a straw man of your own creation.

    No, sexual attraction is not only binary, not just 'gay' and 'straight', not even close. Yet a large majority of human beings really are attracted almost entirely to those with a different set of chromosomes; this is not a social construct, but an objective fact, which is true in every culture and time.
    keith, if your son (or foster son) grew up to be gay, would you go out of your way to tell him about your "disgust reaction" for his sexual behavior?

    or would you do the right and decent thing, and cram it.

    this entire line of reasoning, smeared across multiple threads, is beneath the dignity of this company.

    think about what it serves. and make sure you are right.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    58,075

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    As I said, I have a fairly strong aversion to eating beets. It appears to be hard-wired, not learned. I don't hate beets, I don't think they should be banned, I haven't the slightest objection to anyone else eating beets, I'm not going to make 'beets are an abomination' a tenet of my religion, and I think anyone who feels similarly but does these things is at best dead wrong. You appear to be engaged in a mighty struggle to the death with a straw man of your own creation.
    I don't eat beets either. They are too sweet to be a part of the savory course in the meal. I don't smother food with ketchup for that same reason. OTH some cooked milk dishes and the mouth feel of trifle triggers a gag reflex. Now that must be hard wired.

    No, sexual attraction is not only binary, not just 'gay' and 'straight', not even close. Yet a large majority of human beings really are attracted almost entirely to those with a different set of chromosomes; this is not a social construct, but an objective fact, which is true in every culture and time.
    If you read the Wiki that George hoped would support his premise, you will know that there are three sorts of aversion, two hard-wired, one cultural.
    • Aversion to rotten food.
    • Aversion to mating with the diseased or grotesque.
    • Aversion to gay or oral sex (and bestiality).

    I am confident that you can figure out which two are hard-wired.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Farmington, Oregon
    Posts
    19,985

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    in all of these discussions, i have not betrayed by a single word my emotional reaction to gay sexual activity, or my own preferences even. this is by design.

    and it is not because i "hate science". you guys are not doing science, or referencing science. you are trafficking in hurtful, alienating garbage. perpetuating a poisoned social fabric, that is all.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Walney, near Cumbria UK
    Posts
    58,075

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    in all of these discussions, i have not betrayed by a single word my emotional reaction to gay sexual activity, or my own preferences even. this is by design.

    and it is not because i "hate science". you guys are not doing science, or referencing science. you are trafficking in hurtful, alienating garbage. perpetuating a poisoned social fabric, that is all.
    Hey.

    Have a care when throwing "you guys" around if you please.
    It really is quite difficult to build an ugly wooden boat.

    The power of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web
    The weakness of the web: Anyone can post anything on the web.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cantão - Brazil
    Posts
    16,640

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    in all of these discussions, i have not betrayed by a single word my emotional reaction to gay sexual activity
    If you say so...

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    The Now
    Posts
    4,288

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    first rule of science, if you can't show your work, you're not doing it.
    Excluding Schrödinger's cat, of course.

    Andy
    "In case of fire ring Fellside 75..."

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    9,886

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    beneath the dignity of this company.

    ……

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cantão - Brazil
    Posts
    16,640

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Here is one that will upset some here even more: we are born with racist tendencies.

    https://media.utoronto.ca/media-rele...f-other-races/

    these findings suggest that a race-based bias emerges without experience with other-race individuals

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    19,914

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Hatred? No. Ignorance…?
    "The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."
    -William A. Ward



  21. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    38,879

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    Here is one that will upset some here even more: we are born with racist tendencies.
    Rubbish. Infants look for their parents. Their parents are the same race as themselves. If they are adopted outside their race, they will look for the race of their parents because they are looking for their parents.

    You and that article make more of it than it is.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Farmington, Oregon
    Posts
    19,985

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    If you say so...
    more onanism. you do your own comic relief. the periodic inane smarmy face.

    tell the class what you "know".

    use sciency words, and be sure to congratulate yourself.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Valley of the Sun
    Posts
    117,167

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    we are born with racist tendencies.
    whatcha talkin bout willis
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cantão - Brazil
    Posts
    16,640

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    Rubbish. Infants look for their parents.
    They are born to their parents. They instinctively look for people who look like their parents. Innate and pre-determined, unless you come up with a way to switch the race of the parents every few days.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, Ca
    Posts
    34,540

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    I love beets
    boiled, pickled, sliced, cubed or especially julienned, give me a beet salad with butter lettuce, goat cheese, some candied walnuts, balsamic vinegar dressing and I'm a very happy man...

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    38,879

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    They are born to their parents. They instinctively look for people who look like their parents. Innate and pre-determined, unless you come up with a way to switch the race of the parents every few days.
    You have a nasty habit of repeating what I said as if I were wrong.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 1999
    Location
    St. Paul, MN, USA
    Posts
    61,520

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Quote Originally Posted by Canoeyawl View Post
    I love beets
    boiled, pickled, sliced, cubed or especially julienned, give me a beet salad with butter lettuce, goat cheese, some candied walnuts, balsamic vinegar dressing and I'm a very happy man...
    Great! You can have them all.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cantão - Brazil
    Posts
    16,640

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    You have a nasty habit of repeating what I said as if I were wrong.
    And here I was trying to agree with you...

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Location
    Barrie, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    6,812

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    If reason and logic are located on The Yardstick Of All Human Reactions, they're found only between 17 1/2 and 18 1/2".

    The remainder is all emotions and hormones.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    38,879

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Quote Originally Posted by George. View Post
    And here I was trying to agree with you...
    Please try harder. Include the word "yes" someplace.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cantão - Brazil
    Posts
    16,640

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    Please try harder. Include the word "yes" someplace.
    Yes, I will.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Northwest Oregon coast
    Posts
    30,917

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    I drank beet juice , the next day i had explosive diarrhea, all red ( sorry ) , well i thought i had stomach cancer. Then i remembered the beet juice. Never again.

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Northwest Oregon coast
    Posts
    30,917

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    more onanism. you do your own comic relief. the periodic inane smarmy face.

    tell the class what you "know".

    use sciency words, and be sure to congratulate yourself.
    Im glad you are not picking on me.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Cantão - Brazil
    Posts
    16,640

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbys View Post
    Im glad you are not picking on me.
    Because he uses sciency words like onanism?

    (insert periodic inane smarmy face)

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Rockford, IL
    Posts
    12,976

    Default Re: Can someone explain the hatred of science?

    Do goats eat beets?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •