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Thread: for the hemingway haters

  1. #1
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    Default for the hemingway haters

    I read a lot of his books when I was in grad school, and then stopped. I finally realized he was a latent teenager who never grew up.

    Stream of consciousness is interesting, but the way Capote would craft a passage was nearly poetic.
    but somebody read one of Hemingway's books and remarked "Thats not writing,its typing."
    Truman Capote referred to Hemingway as "That writer of boy's books."
    the animation for this bit of hemmingway is by the russian artist living in canada, Aleksandr Petrov
    for this short he finger painted i think 29,000 glass plates

    both the story and the short are among my favourites

    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    I only like Hemmingway when Humphrey Bogart played the hero. Spencer Tracy was OK, too.
    There is no rational, logical, or physical description of how free will could exist. It therefore makes no sense to praise or condemn anyone on the grounds they are a free willed self that made one choice but could have chosen something else. There is no evidence that such a situation is possible in our Universe. Demonstrate otherwise and I will be thrilled.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    I think "That's not writing, that's typing!" is from Dorothy Parker, well known for her biting wit.

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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    Well done. Thanks

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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    Have you read the book Hemingway's Boat? I lost some respect for him when I read that they would use tommy guns to shoot sharks while they were fishing for bill-fish.

    His Wheeler thirty-eight, Pilar, is for sale again, apparently.

    Speak softly and carry a mouthful of marbles.

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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    ^ How can you raise the rod adequately in that cockpit?
    I agree that Hemingway is a good match for late adolescence.
    The arm wrestling scene in OMATS always bothered me since it is so dramatically different from real life; from a writer revered for his realism.

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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    Hate is a strong word. I prefer to think I outgrew him.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    Im reading his bio right now, seems he is a massive BSer.although some here can out do him on that department.

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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    But Hemingway is more fun to parody than anyone ever.
    It was morning and he was in the bathroom shaving, shaving for the first time that day but not the last, no, never the last; the hairs kept coming, tiny hairs and black and there was nothing for it, nothing for it at all but shaving, razor bright-edged clean on skin and cutting through the hairs and the soap ... . There were the hairs and he was shaving because a man shaves. Main thing a man did. Made him into a man. No bloody hairs.

    She came in then, rich and tall and American in that way they have, her face a picture of a face, an American face, and she leaned into Gibbs Adams in that way she had of leaning, and he looked away from her American face in the mirror and down at the sink where she had just dropped the matchbook, a matchbook from Harry's Bar & American Grill.

    'There wasn't going to be any of that,' he said. 'You promised there wouldn't be.'

    'Well, there is now,' she said.

    He looked at her bored American face in the mirror and knew they would eat, and there would be the wine, but there would never be the time in Venice, no, not that time again and no other. It was too late for that.

    He turned again to the mirror, to his American face in the mirror, his strong thin American face in the mirror with soap now drying on his skin, and the razor moving, scraping ... and he saw his hand trembling in the glass and he felt the white-hot, blinding flash of metal, and that was all he ever felt.

    He had cut himself about two inches up and a little to one side of the base of his chin.

    He was bleeding now, the good, rich thin American blood red on his chin, on the razor, cold, gleaming, dripping ... and he was afraid.

    She turned, lifting her thin American lip over those thin white perfect American teeth in that thin American sneer. 'It's only a nick, Adams,' she said.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Wilson View Post
    But Hemingway is more fun to parody than anyone ever.
    BoredOfTheRings.jpg
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    I still have a copy of that; read it in high school, I think. It was pretty good, but Hemingway parodies are more fun. His writing style is so distinctive, sometimes edging over into self-parody, that it doesn't take much.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    I grew out of Hemingway when I got to fifteen.p
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    We are sitting at an airport
    in Copenhagen drinking a lot of coffee.
    It was most elegant there, and comfortable,
    and refined to the point of lassitude.
    Then suddenly he appeared- that old man-
    in a plain green parka with a hood,
    his face deep tanned by salt and wind-
    loomed up rather than appeared.
    He walked, furrowing through a crowd of tourists,
    as if he’d just been sailing a boat,
    and like the sea foam his beard,
    whitening it, fringed his face.
    With grim victorious determination
    he walked, generating a big wave,
    that swept through the modernized antique,
    through every sort of antiqued modernity.
    And pulling open the coarse collar of his shirt,
    he, rejecting a vermouth and a pernod,
    ordered a glass of Russian vodka at the bar
    and pushed back the tonic with his hand: 'No! '
    With rough-hewn hands, all scarred and dented,
    in boots that made a mighty clatter,
    in trousers indescribably stained and greasy,
    he looked more spruce
    than anything nearby.
    The earth seemed to bend beneath him-
    so heavily did he tread upon it.
    And one of us said to me with a smile:
    'Just look! The very spit of Hemingway! '
    Expressed in each brief gesture, he strode off
    with a fisherman’s ponderous gait,
    all out of granite crudely hewn,
    strode as men stride through gunfire,
    through the ages,
    He strode as if stooping in a trench;
    strode shoving chairs and men aside...
    He resembled
    Hemingway so much!
    Later I learned that it was Hemingway.

    Yegevny Yevtushenko
    Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 06-17-2022 at 06:49 PM.
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    There is a group of people, an unofficial movement, called Walk off the War if I remember correctly. They are veterans back from service (Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.) who walk the Appalachian Trail as a form of therapy to put the war behind them.

    I sometimes wonder if they find the Nick Adams stories relevant, or just so much indulgence. I honestly don't know.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    Quote Originally Posted by CWSmith View Post
    Hate is a strong word. I prefer to think I outgrew him.
    I agree, I lost patience with him whilst still in school.

    There's far to much use of the word 'hate' lately………..

  16. #16
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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    Well, you know, the sun also rises.

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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    He's OK.

    I just finished A Farewell To Arms. A very good story, told surprisngly bloodlessly. No wonder he worked on 30-odd endings before choosing the one we know. I preferred the so-called Fitzgerald ending.
    Gerard>
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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    I'm not a hater. But I do think it is useful to know an artist's background, personality, and style in order to fully appreciate... or at least apprehend... the art they are creating. Both the strengths and the weaknesses. EH was a complex fellow, so this applies even moreso.
    David G
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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    'The Old Man and the Sea' is perhaps my favorite book because I can feel every word of it, every page of it. Maybe it's because I remember Spencer Tracy in it, or maybe it's because my copy is an old one I found in Key West Books on Caroline Street, but for some reason, it takes me to old Cuba when I re-read it.

    Then again, I am a pretty simple guy. Maybe that's why I have never outgrown him?

    Mickey Lake
    'A disciple of the Norse god of aesthetically pleasing boats, Johan Anker'

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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    Quote Originally Posted by David G View Post
    I'm not a hater. But I do think it is useful to know an artist's background, personality, and style in order to fully appreciate... or at least apprehend... the art they are creating. Both the strengths and the weaknesses. EH was a complex fellow, so this applies even moreso.
    If you have done a tour or 2 of the Hemingway house in Key West it pretty well covers his history, a drinker, loved his fishing, cigars and women, and after 5 million copies of Old Man and the Sea have been sold how can anyone hate him.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    Hemingway I’ve had a long standing love / hate relationship with him.
    in high school I read all of him. Then when traveling through Europe I hit all the Hemingway and Simone De Bouvier hang outs and lived the expatriate lifestyle and it was awesome
    Last edited by Joe (SoCal); 06-17-2022 at 10:40 PM.
    This post is temporary and my disappear at the discretion of the managment

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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    Compared to the long convoluted sentences of authors like Henry James I am sure Hemingway was a relief for many readers of the time.

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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    So, for all the Hemingway admirers, one has to ask, “Did the earth move for you?”
    IMAGINES VEL NON FUERINT

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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    Quote Originally Posted by bamamick View Post
    'The Old Man and the Sea' is perhaps my favorite book because I can feel every word of it, every page of it. Maybe it's because I remember Spencer Tracy in it, or maybe it's because my copy is an old one I found in Key West Books on Caroline Street, but for some reason, it takes me to old Cuba when I re-read it.

    Then again, I am a pretty simple guy. Maybe that's why I have never outgrown him?

    Mickey Lake
    It's an amazing book. I will take nothing away from it. I do think it's one of those things that stands by itself, but then Harper Lee only wrote one great book and she remains one of the great writers of the English language.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

  25. #25
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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    the old man and the sea was so far ahead of its time. foresaw the day when people would not have the patience to read a whole book.

    well, i don't, anyway.

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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Mahan
    His Wheeler thirty-eight, Pilar, is for sale again, apparently.
    Pilar is still moored in Havana. It’s mud bound, but it’s there.
    ITS CHAOS, BE KIND

  27. #27
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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    Quote Originally Posted by L.W. Baxter View Post
    the old man and the sea was so far ahead of its time. foresaw the day when people would not have the patience to read a whole book.

    well, i don't, anyway.
    lol
    Simpler is better, except when complicated looks really cool.

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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    I'll stick with Steinbeck and Doc Rickets.

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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Gray View Post
    Well, you know, the sun also rises.
    Wouldn't it be nice to think so.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    Last year WB Magazine had a feature on a new PILAR incorporating only a few changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Mahan View Post
    Have you read the book Hemingway's Boat? I lost some respect for him when I read that they would use tommy guns to shoot sharks while they were fishing for bill-fish.

    His Wheeler thirty-eight, Pilar, is for sale again, apparently.


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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom from Rubicon View Post
    I'll stick with Steinbeck and Doc Rickets.
    Oh, yes please!

    I do a fair amount of writing for a living. It's technical writing, so it's all fairly short declarative sentences. You can still make it interesting, but it's constrained. I learned and evolved from a very poor writer that wrote too long and was unclear. Then I turn to Steinbeck and Capote and I see a rhythm and an almost poetic form of prose that evokes more than the words alone. It transports the reader. On top of that, the stories are just plain good.
    "Where you live in the world should not determine whether you live in the world." - Bono

    "Live in such a way that you would not be ashamed to sell your parrot to the town gossip." - Will Rogers

    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

  32. #32
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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
    So, for all the Hemingway admirers, one has to ask, “Did the earth move for you?”
    That's probably the best example of self-parody.
    "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations,
    for nature cannot be fooled."

    Richard Feynman

  33. #33
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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    Hemingway's writing style was revolutionary


    But that was a 100 years ago

    And we have had had a century of people copying him. And parodying him

    His view of the world and women is also outdated by at least 80 years
    What's not on a boat costs nothing, weighs nothing, and can't break

  34. #34
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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    Iíll keep Vonnegut and Saroyan, thank you.

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    Default Re: for the hemingway haters

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Bow View Post
    Pilar is still moored in Havana. Itís mud bound, but itís there.

    Actually the Cubans put it up on blocks on the old Hemingway estate many years ago. They have a walkway around one side of it. No touching, and they get irritated if you try to crawl underneath it for a little inspection.

    100_0087.jpg

    100_0086.jpg

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